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why u always make SE that bad? |
>500
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: > 500
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On 2007-10-29 15:20:44, Dogmann wrote:
@>500
As you asked why
" Also, you mention some are blinded by their love and devotion to . I am curious, why does this affect you?"
Well basically because it makes a logical discussion impossible as people are arguing on an emotional level and ignore the facts.
Marc
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Nokia E61, 2gb Sandisk, Fring, Tom Tom 6
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-10-29 14:21 ]
yes but only becuase of threads like this. Just let them be...
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bahraini
Joined: Nov 27, 2001
Posts: 361
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@arunvc
1- i agree with u that SE little bit over priced, but about the designs, i think most ppl agree has gerat designs, and u can see that by how many girls strated holding SE fones.. but we dont expect all fones to be great loolking. at the end its mattar of a taste, for example , i have t650 only for its amazing design , while other think it sux..
so u think moto which never had new design since razer , or LG with most of their fones have wierd designs r better?
2- still i think its not fair to compare 2 different fones only cuz of the price, cuz i know many ppl wants the w910 , for its simple and elaiable OS, and did not care for the N81. so its matter wat u want and welling to pay for , not the price, so u should compare 2 fones from same catagory.
3- ok , SE compared to nokia cuz they r the market leader, why i dont see that much comparison from samsung and moto, which both sells more than SE, and always comapted to SE??
4- have u used moto or lg??? they give u headache cuz of their OS , which LG is moving on the right path to be better, while moto, still stuck 3 years back. while samsung, adopt the SE menue, with some modification, and still , for many new fones, they r so normal as SE, cuz they make wat they can sell , not wat they can show..
5- i dont think k850 was beaten to death, cuz most pics were compared from prototype against final prdoduct, like samsung, and fixed bugs like N95. but the pics am seeing now are so great, and thats the same story happened with k800, which was good in final release, and only after 2nd upgrade , it was the best in the market with no other to compete with...
SE like samsung, make phone which ppl wanna buy and keep , which will give them profit, not only to sell , and resell again, like N95, u will be amazed how many ppl r selling it back only few days after buying it. |
razec
Joined: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: Pearl of the Orient Seas
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bahraini:
Honestly some threads here are designed only to bash SE. more definitely discernible on W910 vs N81 thread, K850 vs N95 quality(no offense). i guess both have their own buyers, but some people forces others to do a number on the phone they personally like. i can't see the purpose of this kind of comparison as well 
~19 years at Esato |
jemuel
Joined: Sep 21, 2006
Posts: 124
From: PH
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On 2007-10-29 18:55:22, Dogmann wrote:
@jemuel
Two things firstly i was answering a question i had been asked so i really don't get your snide comment, and secondly was it really necessary to quote a post just two post's above? Please show some consideration for your fellow ESATO users many of whom visit ESATO over WAP and really don't need every post to quote a previous post which both slows down their browsing and uses more Data.
Marc
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Nokia E61, 2gb Sandisk, Fring, Tom Tom 6
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-10-29 17:55 ]
didn't mean that one... sorry, my mistake... no hard feelings ok?
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[ This Message was edited by: jemuel on 2007-10-30 01:36 ] |
mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
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On 2007-10-30 02:16:38, razec wrote:
bahraini:
Honestly some threads here are designed only to bash SE. more definitely discernible on W910 vs N81 thread, K850 vs N95 quality(no offense). i guess both have their own buyers, but some people forces others to do a number on the phone they personally like. i can't see the purpose of this kind of comparison as well
At the very least, no one bash K850/W910 with false information.  This is not what I can say about some SE fans who bash other makes. Every one is the wiser when presented with true information (no matter how hurtful it is to take) . Dont you think so?
bahraini
The following compares the production K850 with N95. K850 cam is still undeniably loses to N95. K850 cam/photo has not changed much since the first pre-production photos came out (and that's like a few months ago). So dont hold your breath that the cam can be improved any further. 
http://mobil.idnes.cz/sony-er[....]24_212325_mob_sonyericsson_vok |
razec
Joined: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: Pearl of the Orient Seas
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On 2007-10-30 03:57:01, mib1800 wrote:
bahraini
The following compares the production K850 with N95. K850 cam is still undeniably loses to N95. K850 cam/photo has not changed much since the first pre-production photos came out (and that's like a few months ago). So dont hold your breath that the cam can be improved any further.
http://mobil.idnes.cz/sony-er[....]24_212325_mob_sonyericsson_vok
I don't know where you have get the impression that K850 camera won't improve further and N95 was overall better as the hard fact regarding detail loss, oversaturation, and poor macro generally describes N95 weak spot that K850 outperformed it as proven by many actual users already. I remember mobile-review's N95 vs K800 camera review which explains N95's inevitable weakness in macro, detail loss and overexposure and you declare K850 which even shows more details, has sharper macro and better low light losses undeniably.
"So dont hold your breath that the cam can be improved any further. "
have you already heard of the popular cam driver modding? most currently cybershots and AF SE phones except T650 and P990 have cam drivers which undeniably increases picture quality of the images and there is no reason that modders won't touch the flagship K850 as well. that sentence shows how you are bound and determined to make yourself right and make those who don't believe you to do a number on themselves. again,imho there is no point arguing with this as this always end up being a Nokia vs SE fanwar. but to force someone to believe what you want is indeed not standard to human differences.
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know drawing? tell us here [ This Message was edited by: razec on 2007-10-30 03:18 ] |
mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
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On 2007-10-30 04:17:50, razec wrote:
I don't know where you have get the impression that K850 camera won't improve further and N95 was overall better as the hard fact regarding detail loss, oversaturation, and poor macro generally describes N95 weak spot that K850 outperformed it as proven by many actual users already. I remember mobile-review's N95 vs K800 camera review which explains N95's inevitable weakness in macro, detail loss and overexposure and you declare K850 which even shows more details, has sharper macro and better low light losses undeniably.
Well, SE had a few months (since pre-production photos) to improve it but the production unit still came out the way it is. I just based it on this fact.
And in the comparison, K850 macro shot (i.e. the newspaper shot) was crap compared to N95. So K850 can also produce crap macro shots as well. It may be more fiddly to get a good N95 macro shot but K850 is also able to perform badly in macro shots as well
have you already heard of the popular cam driver modding? most currently cybershots and AF SE phones except T650 and P990 have cam drivers which undeniably increases picture quality of the images and there is no reason that modders won't touch the flagship K850 as well. that sentence shows how you are bound and determined to make yourself right and make those who don't believe you to do a number on themselves. again,imho there is no point arguing with this as this always end up being a Nokia vs SE fanwar. but to force someone to believe what you want is indeed not standard to human differences.
How about changing the cam module in K850 to better one? Some modders can do that also. But what's the point of this. You pay so much for K850 and yet put up with all this. And not everyone wants to take the risk bricking the phone. Why not just get the better phone? Not that K850 is a must have phone (since in terms of functionalities it is a dinosaur compared to N95)
[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2007-10-30 04:17 ] |
razec
Joined: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: Pearl of the Orient Seas
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On 2007-10-30 05:00:05, mib1800 wrote:
On 2007-10-30 04:17:50, razec wrote:
I don't know where you have get the impression that K850 camera won't improve further and N95 was overall better as the hard fact regarding detail loss, oversaturation, and poor macro generally describes N95 weak spot that K850 outperformed it as proven by many actual users already. I remember mobile-review's N95 vs K800 camera review which explains N95's inevitable weakness in macro, detail loss and overexposure and you declare K850 which even shows more details, has sharper macro and better low light losses undeniably.
Well, SE had a few months (since pre-production photos) to improve it but the production unit still came out the way it is. I just based it on this fact.
And in the comparison, K850 macro shot (i.e. the newspaper shot) was crap compared to N95. So K850 can also produce crap macro shots as well. It may be more fiddly to get a good N95 macro shot but K850 dont
have you already heard of the popular cam driver modding? most currently cybershots and AF SE phones except T650 and P990 have cam drivers which undeniably increases picture quality of the images and there is no reason that modders won't touch the flagship K850 as well. that sentence shows how you are bound and determined to make yourself right and make those who don't believe you to do a number on themselves. again,imho there is no point arguing with this as this always end up being a Nokia vs SE fanwar. but to force someone to believe what you want is indeed not standard to human differences.
How about changing the cam module in K850 to better one? Some modders can do that also. But what's the point of this. You pay so much for K850 and yet put up with all this. And not everyone wants to take the risk bricking the phone. Why not just get the better phone? Not that K850 is a must have phone (since in terms of functionalities it is a dinosaur compared to N95)
Lol, so you are expecting that a cam phone can't make a hit and miss shot? even digicams make poor shots. and even N95 can make bad macro shots, if you have seen the pictures i posted on the thread "N95 - should i buy one"
"But what's the point of this. You pay so much for K850 and yet put up with all this."
Don't you think that Nokia also provides update that fixes N95 cam problems like over saturation and over sharpness, and yet the issue still exist. if you want proof try looking at mobile-review's K800 vs N95 cam test(note that N95 has it's early final firmware version there ). and i also remember somewhere at allaboutsymbian that nokia provided an update to fix the overcompression/saturation on N95 shots(even though it still persist) and you said N95 has got that good image quality you are implying with it's early firmware version? I prefer modding a cam driver than downloading a fixed phone update in the sense that there can be variations in the previous, and people can choose what's the best update for their phone.
Why not just get the better phone?
--> i can have a different definition to this, everyone has their own preferences of which is better, but please do not force them to choose what you want 
~19 years at Esato |
mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
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On 2007-10-30 05:26:17, razec wrote:
Don't you think that Nokia also provides update that fixes N95 cam problems like over saturation and over sharpness, and yet the issue still exist. if you want proof try looking at mobile-review's K800 vs N95 cam test(note that N95 has it's early final firmware version there ). and i also remember somewhere at allaboutsymbian that nokia provided an update to fix the overcompression/saturation on N95 shots(even though it still persist) and you said N95 has got that good image quality you are implying with it's early firmware version? I prefer modding a cam driver than downloading a fixed phone update in the sense that there can be variations in the previous, and people can choose what's the best update for their phone.
My point is why wait for something (i.e. major improvement) that may or may not happened or go thru trouble of modding etc etc when u can get a better alternatives off-the-shelf?
Why not just get the better phone?
--> i can have a different definition to this, everyone has their own preferences of which is better, but please do not force them to choose what you want
When did I force anyone?. Or are you saying that we should not highlight to those less informed who are looking at buying K850 but do not know the actual situation or better alternatives?
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makbil
Joined: Oct 26, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: Istanbul
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On 2007-10-29 13:41:34, mailboxmanoj wrote:
I agree with u, the ONLY reason this is happening is coz people are expecting a lot from SE and they want to see SE beat Nokia in every aspect of communication and why not? coz SE has the capability!!!
Wrong, wrong and wrong.
Expecting a device to perform as advertised is NOT expecting a lot from SE. Or is it?
SE beat Nokia? I couldn't care less who beats who. Any one who can deliver a good product that performs true to its specifications is a winner for me. I will look at the specifications and determine what I need. If the device can't do what it claims it will do, it is not only a definite looser but also bad ethics.
SE has the capability to what?
Design solid working phones? - No
Any acceptable level of technical support? - None existent.
Support its products over time? - No.
Good customer relations? - Noooooo, a company of deafs and mutes.
Am I missing something? Anything that can be said in favor of SE?
Sorry guys, being a long time SE user and having used all the Pxx series phones, the latest lineup of UIQ3 phones and SE's attitude has just lost me as a loyal customer.
And why Nokia? Could be any other brand but currently Nokia shows most potential in coming up with a good alternative to the current smartphone selection from SE.
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[ This Message was edited by: makbil on 2007-10-30 12:12 ] |
Dogmann
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: London England
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@Makbil,
Excellent post that puts all the relevant points across clearly and as a long term SE user hopefully no one will be foolish enough to dare suggest you are a Nokia Fan Boy or an SE hater.
@all
Really what i think a lot of people forget is that virtually everyone that is on ESATO was originally either an Ericsson or SE fan. But there are some of us that are very disappointed by what has happened of late and rather than continually making excuses for SE's lack of innovation and customer satisfaction we dare criticize their actions.
@>500
Not only because of threads like these, these people pop up in most threads clamming how bad and rubbish NOKIA are and then defend anything that SE do as just little bugs. Just look at how long it takes for SE to release a new firmware to correct things that should of been fixed prior to release, how could they possibly of released the P1 still with two major bugs that they knew where still in the P990. Same with the K850 yes some people's are fine but then some on are on their 2nd one already and still having problems and it's not just one thing wrong either is it? Just how long before SE even release a firmware update to address some of these issues? and i can't see any firmware stopping dust getting under the lens. Which however you look at it is not a good thing for a flagship camera phone now is it?
For well over a year now we have been told don't worry SE are going to really deliver with the next announcement and just how many times have we heard this and what has happened nothing much really is the answer. There may well be hardcore of SE fans and loyal supporters but this number is not growing it's getting smaller as SE fail to deliver more and more are now doing the unthinkable and going elsewhere for there devices.
If we all do nothing but tell SE how great they are how are they going to learn they need to change? unfortunately it appears that telling them anything is pointless as they just don't react or engage their users any longer and just do what they want as proved by the P990 users and the open letter to the new CEO that has not even received the courtesy of a acknowledgement. These next announcements really need to show us some of the old Ericsson and SE spirit and not just nice new designs with still the same old hardware or this exodus of SE users will continue.
As for the OP and the question he asks the answer is really simple It's because currently they are.
Marc
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-10-30 15:09 ] |
aksd
Joined: Nov 11, 2005
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I know my opinion may not count for much, but I dont see the point of so many arguments of SE Vs Nokia and SE vs the Rest, Nokia Vs the rest etc..
Each person differs in what they require from a cellphone and this requirement may change over a period of time. SE as of now from what their releases are aimed at seem to be targeting the youth and basically the end user whose requirement is a reliable phone with basic multimedia capabilities. Eg: My mom, she uses a Z610, and she does'nt use the cam nor music nor even texts, just as a phone, or my cousin for example, all she wants is a snazzy youthful looking thing where the sound quality really does'nt matter as long as it plays music(Shes got the W580).
On the other hand I use a Motorola ROKR E6(along with many other phones  ) but the ROKR E6 is my primary phone(Many of you would go ewwww) but what I need from a phone is modding flexability or programming flexability, which the ROKR offers me, With 45 MB ram I can run 20 apps simultaneousl using a 32MB swap file, I can overclock when required, It has Rockbox(www.rockbox.org) ported and music is amazing, I've got Mplayer on it for mpg and avi files, I can run Turbo C++ on it through DOSBOX blah blah blah blah So in short my phone can do better than what most Nokias and SE do in the Smartphone filed, basically my E6 is a tiny computer(after hell of a lot of hacking)
Whilst there are other end users who do not have the time to hack linux phones such as the E6 to suit there needs and thats where Nokia comes in at the moment, they;ve thrown in everything at the cost of reliability methinks(after owning an N73ME as soon as it was released, it was a pain in the a*** with the Ringtones not playing if the music player was played but that was sorted out). We'll where revolutionary phones are concerned Nokia are market leaders but they;ve got the funds with all their profits etc.
The bottom line is its your hard earned money and you for sure will spend it where you think fit. Eventually the cellphone manufacturers are not paying you to use their phones so its no point arguing over which manufacturer is better, when buying a new phone list out your requiremnts, short list from all Manufacturers and use each one of them, including the LG's, Smasungs and Motos, and then decide which phone you want, not just blindly buy a Nokia or SE or Moto just because your last few phones were from that company.
We'll thats a long rant. I apoogise for a rant and if its slightly off topic, but I hope it at least made some people think and spend their money wisely next time they buy their phones, I know I am, going for the N95 8GB next |
Hlcn Twst
Joined: Jul 27, 2006
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(just ate my own words!)
[ This Message was edited by: Hlcn Twst on 2007-12-06 15:07 ] |
bahraini
Joined: Nov 27, 2001
Posts: 361
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@aksd
well said mate
the is wat we should do and think
but as human nature , we dont:P
all ppl r looking for the best, even if we dont use all wat we got
and cuz we have such a device , or anything else
this thing we have must be the best
and we compare with other companies
to prove that we have the best
but am with u , its hard to compare , if we dont know wats the company's target, r they looking for high end user, or mid, or low:)
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DragonEye
Joined: Sep 26, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: Canada
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@Hlcn Twst
hmmm.. the w810 has been one of the most durable se phones to date.. even if you search through these forums you'll find very few complaints about it.. i've had the s700/710 and w810 and treated them like crap.. i even treat my k790a like crap and they work...
the problem with SE is they give you the perception that you should baby your phones...but honestly it's not necessary.
in terms of pricing... what resellers rape you for and and what se tends to sell for are too completedly different things that you seem to be mixing up..
when the n95-1 first came out about a year ago it was $900 US (resellers) quickly dropped to $750US and now sits at $650US
the n95-3 came out the gate from the nokia store at 699.99 US 6 monhts later
the n95-2 is about $799 US now from the nokia store..
you can't buy the k850i from an official store like nokia products...maybe at a few sony stores but not everywhere... and everyone knows the sony store is the biggest ripoff out there.... lol
so what you get is retarded reseller raping prices.. the k850i was $700 usd when it first hit ebay.. why? cause there are people out there willing to buy.. and now it's hit a more reasonable reseller price in the $500 usd range..
i can tell you that a k850i for me costs $500 cad and a n95-3 costs me $750 cad if i were to walk into my local cellphone shop. for me the k850 is better value..even though still overpriced IMO.
as far as camera is concerned.. i agree the n95 takes better pictures in general.. but the k850 offers "comparable" quality but is more versatile due to speed, size and flash. if you've ever used your k790 comparing it with the n95 out at the bars at night you'd know what i mean...
having said that the n95-2 is a lot faster in saving and starting then the n95-3 i had. in regards to mac... se is slow very slow to add support but they are doing it in all fairness..and it's free.
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[ This Message was edited by: DragonEye on 2007-11-02 14:56 ] | |
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Posted: 2007-10-30 00:08
