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The Danish Mohammad cartoon row - what do you think? |
axxxr
Joined: Mar 21, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Londinium
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Guys don't forget the Rally against incitement & Islamophobia Today 11th February...please do try to attend!
The London Central Mosque Trust & the Islamic Cultural Centre and leading British Muslim organisations are to jointly hold a peaceful rally in Trafalgar Square, London, beginning at 1.00pm on Saturday 11th February 2006. Public figures from across the political spectrum are expected to unite to protest against the rising wave of xenophobia towards Muslims across Europe and the gratuitously offensive caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) which have been reprinted in many newspapers around the world.
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absinthebri
Joined: Feb 11, 2004
Posts: 476
From: London, UK
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You repeat yourself.
Who was incited, and by whom?
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Jim
Joined: Jan 20, 2002
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From: Belgium
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On 2006-02-11 04:44:55, axxxr wrote:
Public figures from across the political spectrum are expected to unite to protest against the rising wave of xenophobia towards Muslims across Europe and the gratuitously offensive caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) which have been reprinted in many newspapers around the world.
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Right, we are the racists here but the other's don't ? This is the lamest excuse for now, it's the only defense and we are sick of it ! They have the right to hate us but we don't, please ... .
Don't like western way of living, get out of it then ! Simple as that ! I mean, I don't like how they live in China so I'm never gonna get there, point. I know how the country is and it doesn't suit me. How hard is it to understand that country's have different way's of living and that it can't please everyone.
For some it seems very hard, they gonna hate everything that is different to them. I call it racisme. |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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On 2006-02-11 10:40:22, axxxr wrote:
Not you maybe...to me it was just exageration of the original story,i provided a link to the originial article anyway so people could judge for themselves as you did!
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I shan't go over the debate in that thread here, but suffice to say that your treatment of that story was what I, as trained historian, would call a biased account of history and, as you yourself admitted in that thread, deliberately so.
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Don't think i do...they have hurt the feelings of 1.6 billion muslims on the planet a few have objected in a harsh way,but thats to be expected.
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I would disagree and say that you do. You have said in this thread how people do not understand Islam, how it is given a biased representation in the media and mentioned Islamaphobia. You have rested your case on a foundation of bias against the West. Your case is rooted in alleged Western mistakes and deeds instead of taking an objective approach that accounts for the situation as a whole.
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Thats a fact anyway...muslims have been experiencing islamphobia racial attacks based on their faith and medias portrayal of muslims as being terrorists for years now,how much do you expect them to take?..its no secret that the west does have a problem with islam.only very few a honetst enough to show their feelings,most like to pretend to show their approval...the cartoons depicted the real sentiments people have towards islam..which is negative.
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This is actually a very important point because it demonstrates the crux of this matter. On the one hand we have far-right wingers like the BNP who are quite happy to whip up hatred and and fear against Islam (and anyone else they don't like) and on the other hand we have Islamic extremists who are quite happy to whip up hatred and fear against the West (and anyone else they don't like). However, we also have apologists and the PC brigade who buy into the victim mentality.
It is very easy to lay the problem squarely on the feet of the West and arguably more palatable for some too. Like anti-Americanism in the West it is 'fashionable' in some circles to blame the usual scapegoats for problems that arise e.g. Western imperialism, Western greed, Western cultural dominance, etc. What such views do not take into account is that it takes two to tango.
The West is by no means perfect and has caused its share of problems throughout the world, however, the West is not solely responsible for every problem in the world. The current situation is a good example; the situation has been inflamed by Islamic extremists and exacerbated by the fact that moderate Muslim groups have not been as pro-active as they could have been in condeming the violence. By simply laying blame at the door of the West one is glossing over the problem and not gaining an objective picture of events so that one can look for a means to avert further problems.
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I think that goes both ways,dont you think?
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I suspect I know where you are coming from with this, but I shall ask you to clarify anyway before rebutting.
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Of course my generlisations are ok..i am absolutely stand by everything i say about americans...my views towards acceptable and i dont say how it is not acceptable??...why i cant make a strong political statement against them is beyond me?..
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You are free to make what political statemnets you like, but what I am interested is the dichotomy in that some generalisation seem to be ok with you whilst others are not.
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Absolutely i would agree with that freedom of speech should mean to open about making and accepting comments and opinons..but as i said before LIMITS to expression is important here...just as we have limits as to what we can post or say on esato...nothing is unlimited as i said,specially free speech!
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It should be noted that Esato is not a democracy.
If we set limits to freedom of speech is it truly free? I have just been reading an essay that was discussing free choice, which I feel is quite appropriate to mention here. The author made the point that our actions may not necessarily be free; if we are hungry and we eat is that a free choice? Are we just reacting to a stimulus from our body, in other words is it cause and effect rather than free choice?
If free speech is limited will people then seek to say things that are beyond that limit, not because they are making a genuine point involving those things, but because they are reacting to the limit? Arguably that is the case here. The Danish newspaper was discussing censorship with regards to Islam following on from a situation where people were afraid of death threats should they depict the Prophet. One could forward the idea that the newspaper was reacting to that limitation.
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[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2006-02-11 10:06 ] |
goldenface
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Liverpool City Centre
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@axxxr Todays march is also a protest against Islam being hijacked by the extreme fundamentalists.
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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The rally in london is also to protest at the incitement seen at the earlier London protest, which was hijacked by extremists.
EDIT:@goldenface
Beat me to it!
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[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2006-02-11 10:06 ] |
amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
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From: Doha, London, Tokyo, Shanghai
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so when there is a threatening protest, people complain it wasn't peacefull. And when there is a rally to make it more peacefull and actually get the religion to be more understood and accepted people STILL complain.
I just dont understand.
It's a rally. It'll help take a step to peace.
Dont like it? Don't go. Just don't complain in the future.
edit:
oh and Jim. It's not the Islamic culture invading the West, it's the other way around.
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[ This Message was edited by: amnesia on 2006-02-11 10:32 ] |
absinthebri
Joined: Feb 11, 2004
Posts: 476
From: London, UK
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Who's complaining?
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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On 2006-02-11 11:28:01, amnesia wrote:
so when there is a threatening protest, people complain it wasn't peacefull. And when there is a rally to make it more peacefull and actually get the religion to be more understood and accepted people STILL complain.
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Who is this directed towards?
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[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2006-02-11 10:31 ] |
goldenface
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Liverpool City Centre
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Yeah!
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amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
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From: Doha, London, Tokyo, Shanghai
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Kind of to Jim and it seemed like abs didn't like the fact that axxxr was supporting a cause he beleived in by repeating the even happening today.
But I should add that it's directed to those who feel it's pointed at them.
@scots, I'm sorry but sometimes I dont understand the words you use and I dont have time to dictionary.com the words because I'm rushing around. Can I ask that if there is a possiblity that a non-native speaker might not understand a word that you put a similar easier word next to it? (e.g. dichomy)
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absinthebri
Joined: Feb 11, 2004
Posts: 476
From: London, UK
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On 2006-02-11 11:36:34, amnesia wrote:
...and it seemed like abs didn't like the fact that axxxr was supporting a cause he beleived in by repeating the even happening today.
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There's enough going on in this topic without people spamming it. How many times do we need to be informed of the event in one morning?
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amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
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From: Doha, London, Tokyo, Shanghai
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it's not spam when it's for a good cause.
You see, the way you act makes me think, if you dont respect my religion, why should I respect yours?
If you dont respect one man's cause why should he respect yours?
"Will you sell me your pen for 1902820 pounds and send it to Nigeria" is SPAM
typing "First" at the top of a comment section is SPAM.
Supporting peacefull relations between cultures and religions is NOT spam.
Supporting the fact that one day, Jews, Christians and Muslims will respect each other's beleifs and live as equals is NOT spam.
edit:
Plus I think he mentioned this to point out how Muslims and Politicians ARE making an effort.
Someone asked why Muslim's aren't trying to make a stand against the extremists who are hurting the Muslim name. THERE it is.
Someone asked why Muslim's aren't making a peacefull demonstration. THERE it is.
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[ This Message was edited by: amnesia on 2006-02-11 10:46 ] |
joebmc
Joined: Jan 03, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Kent
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There is an peaceful event happening today.... just joshing 
Lets just hope it all goes well and isn't highjack buy any extremists.
[ This Message was edited by: joebmc on 2006-02-11 10:47 ] |
amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
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From: Doha, London, Tokyo, Shanghai
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what are you talking about joebmc?
edit: screw it, I'm going out to have a nice day. this thread is not ruining my day. I just post to give people an other perspective.
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[ This Message was edited by: amnesia on 2006-02-11 10:47 ] |
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Posted: 2006-02-11 10:45
