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The United States of America Forum |
amagab
Joined: Oct 29, 2002
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On 2004-11-04 20:25:47, eric_emeralds wrote:
@scotsboyuk
i plan on heading to sweden because of its higher standard of living. but i planned on going long before bush even took office 
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I have to say that my standard increased when I moved to the US. I make a couple of $k more a year, I pay 14% income tax instead of 43%, I chose myself where my money goes and what to do with it.
I don't like to participate in systems where the tax payers pay for other peoples inproductivity. I believe in individual liberty and not collectivism.
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richy240
Joined: Jan 24, 2003
Posts: 465
From: Houston, Texas, USA
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On 2004-11-04 21:03:02, scotsboyuk wrote:
@richy240
I don't think it would matter much if you had a full vote in the next UK elections; Blair is probably still going to win.  The opposition just aren't strong enough to defeat him, but you never know, Bush's victory seems to have galvanised opposition to Blair here.
I do agree though, foreigners shouldn't be allowed to vote in other nation's elections. Mind you, it would have been nice if they could have in the recent U.S. election.
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Yes, that would have assured his defeat.
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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On 2004-11-04 21:26:06, amagab wrote:
I have to say that my standard increased when I moved to the US. I make a couple of $k more a year, I pay 14% income tax instead of 43%, I chose myself where my money goes and what to do with it.
I don't like to participate in systems where the tax payers pay for other peoples inproductivity. I believe in individual liberty and not collectivism.
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You mean you don't like a system of social security. I believe in helping my fellow human beings; if someone cannot work through illness, disability or because economic conditions prevalent at a particular time mean there are few jobs then I believe that those who earn more money should pay more taxes to help them. I also believe that every humanbeing has the right to free medical attention and I am quite willing to pay higher taxes to ensure this. I believe that no human being should go without food or shelter, again i am very happy to pay more taxes to make sure that this is possible.
I really do not like to talk about money, I consider it a vulgar subject, but suffice to say I pay a decent sum in tax. I am happy to do this because I know that it goes to support a system of free health care, free education, economic aid for those unable to provide for themselves and to help ensure that basic public services run as best they can. It might not be perfect, but I believe it to be a good system. Interestingly enough, Britain is the most capitalist country in Europe, and everyone here has the ability to be successful precisley because there is a system in place to support them.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
amagab
Joined: Oct 29, 2002
Posts: > 500
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I believe in providing for yourself. Yes, a lot of people are not able to that. There is actually a safety net here as well....but not as high as in Europe. Basic needs are provided here as well...it might not be known but health care is free for emergencies, welfare is provided to people who cannot provide for themselves. It might not be as luxurious as in Europe, but at least it's there.
Americans DO believe in helping fellow humans as well. That is why Americans (both government and individuals) have the HIGHEST charitable DONATIONS and contributions in the world.
Europe did have the greatest health care in the world...however, it is now suffering due to abuse and government inability to run successful operations. It is sad to see European health care and welfare (the backbone of European politics) decline without people's call for reform.
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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@amagab
I'm very glad to hear that the U.S. does give the most to charity, after all it is the richest nation on Earth.
Free emergency health care is hardly free health care. What about the the needs of the patient after the initial emergency? What if the patient needs life long medical treatment? What happens to those who cannot afford to pay for drugs? What about the people who need surgery to relieve pain, but which isn't deemed an emergency? Are mental health problems deemed emergencies?
The European health systems have been in decline for a long time now, and I presume that you don't follow the European media as there have been calls from all quarters for years to reform the health systems.
The aim of the welfare state is to make sure that everyone, regardless of income, has an equal chance in life. It might not be a perfect system, but I it is soemthing that almost all Europeans are prepared to pay for. What surprises me is that there have neve rbeen any strong calls in the U.S. for a free health care system, certainly not by any recent important political figures. Is there a lot of support for such a measure in the U.S.?
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
amagab
Joined: Oct 29, 2002
Posts: > 500
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No, there is not much support for free health care in the US. It will never be implemented. I do think though that a lot of people want to make it more affordable, because as you know, it is getting out of hand.
I used to believe in free health care but I'm not sure if I do anymore. I don't know much about UK but I know that in Sweden and France they now have to start charging higher fees for medical care. Those two countries were earlier known to have the best health care in the world. No system is perfect.
An interesting point is though that life expectancy is pretty much the same all over Europe and the US so free health care or not doesn't seem to be a contributing factor.....I might be wrong....it's just my fast assumption.
Addition: Bush is working on a medicare reform...that is, providing better care for elders. We'll see how it works out. Clinton tried implementing universal health care and it was not popular, one of Kerry's election points was free health care and we know now what happened to that.
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[ This Message was edited by: amagab on 2004-11-04 21:46 ] |
lenn24
Joined: Sep 30, 2004
Posts: 199
From: Caracas - Venezuela
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oh  |
boto43
Joined: Nov 23, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Trnava-Nitra,Pardubice CSSR
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Yes lenn,capitalism and especially form of us capitalism is very bad and unhuman.
Who knows it better than former communist as me  |
lenn24
Joined: Sep 30, 2004
Posts: 199
From: Caracas - Venezuela
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Wow Boto |
batesie
Joined: Feb 13, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: London, UK
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As a taste of what is to come during a second Bush term, an advisor to President Bush on climate issues came out today claiming global warming is a myth designed to 'hamper American competitiveness.' Myron Ebell, a director at the Competitive Enterprise Institute, told Radio 4 that claims the climate is threatened are "ridiculous, unrealistic and alarmist."
"The whole tissue of argument that makes climate change into the greatest problem facing humanity is based on a long series of improbabilities," he said.
The Competitive Enterprise Institute has received $1.5m from Esso since 1998. Esso is the world's biggest oil company and funds a series of front groups that spread doubt about climate science and advise Republican politicians on global warming. The CEI is one of the biggest of these groups.
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Residentevil
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Raccoon City, USA
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It will be an expensive next four years here in the US
Tough times don't last, tough people do!
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kimcheeboi
Joined: Dec 19, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Abducted by hot blondes to Les
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let's say this war has cost us about 200 billion dollars (close enough, its actually 232 bil or somthing like that)..., that means each (EACH) american has paid 1000 dollars toward the war...
kind of tough knowing i don't believe in this war 
its gonna be a long-ass 4 years... sigh...
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Residentevil
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Raccoon City, USA
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That is right kim. The ordinary Americans are paying the price and the black man, the white man, the yellow man and the red man are paying with their lives, while Bush and his buddies (Halliburton, Lockheed Martin, the oil industry, weapon executives and others are getting rich)
Tough times don't last, tough people do!
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kimcheeboi
Joined: Dec 19, 2003
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From: Abducted by hot blondes to Les
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doesnt that just piss you off?
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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@Residentevil
Isn't that a somewhat similar situation to Vietnam?
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
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Posted: 2004-11-04 21:26
