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BlackBauers Bible Hour |
kimcheeboi
Joined: Dec 19, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Abducted by hot blondes to Les
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On 2004-11-16 07:40:55, PIANOSSO wrote:
@kim
It's true that's hard to trust it, judging it only by logicall human means. You say 'It's not unreliable' based on you doubts. But what if It's genuine? Of course, man had influence it, yet i know people that sincerely trusted it, and 'the word of GOD' changed their lifes. Yes, these people can be considered. Ignorants, as they weren't interested in whether the bible It's reliable or not. They simply took it as it is, trying to understand it with their heart, not w/ their mind. This is not crazy!
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First of all, im saying that it's unreliable 
How can we say that the Bible is reliable if it's been edited to suit the needs of people like Pope Alexander (Cesare Borgia, anyone?) and the Spanish Inquisitors?
And how do you have people who follow the Bible but don't read it? It's like telling me to live my life by a doctrine when I have no idea what its about!
Does believing in something make you right? Maybe to you, but I'm sure you consider peoples of other religions to be wrong. But they believe what they do! So they're right and you're wrong? Or what?
After all, faith and religion is about choosing your path; and I'm sure you will agree with me that anyone who blindly follows any religion 'just because' is a fool.
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PIANOSSO
Joined: May 18, 2004
Posts: 62
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...crazy. It's a honest wish to find GOD. Although this is not a secret, a lot of people don't know that GOD reveal Himself to whoever looks sincerely to find Him. It's written in the Bible, for the ones who believe it...
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kimcheeboi
Joined: Dec 19, 2003
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From: Abducted by hot blondes to Les
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On 2004-11-16 07:52:25, PIANOSSO wrote:
...crazy. It's a honest wish to find GOD. Although this is not a secret, a lot of people don't know that GOD reveal Himself to whoever looks sincerely to find Him. It's written in the Bible, for the ones who believe it...
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But you base all your premises upon evidence from the Bible.
I believe I've raised some valid points about the reliability of the Bible, but you dismiss it as crazy? First please explain to me why my argument is not valid, and then we can discuss the process of finding God.
Is it also not possible to be decieved or wrong? I know many people had a sincere wish to create a utopian society simliar to one envisioned in the Bible; and they created something called Communism. They believed it would work, but they created a totalitarian state.
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PIANOSSO
Joined: May 18, 2004
Posts: 62
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@kim. Sorry you got me wrong. I meant people who read it and believe it, of course. I don't getthis: people believe what they do? They rather do what they believe.(think It's right) And yes, That's what makes a human 'good' or 'bad'. Believing in something .just because' isn't faith. It's only conviction! Faith is something that works, that has effects on your life, just the way you wanted it to be. For you, this real faith is not logical. Please read HEBREW chapter 11, the new testament.
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kimcheeboi
Joined: Dec 19, 2003
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From: Abducted by hot blondes to Les
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On 2004-11-16 08:17:09, PIANOSSO wrote:
@kim. Sorry you got me wrong. I meant people who read it and believe it, of course. I don't getthis: people believe what they do? They rather do what they believe.(think It's right) And yes, That's what makes a human 'good' or 'bad'. Believing in something .just because' isn't faith. It's only conviction! Faith is something that works, that has effects on your life, just the way you wanted it to be. For you, this real faith is not logical. Please read HEBREW chapter 11, the new testament.
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People do what they believe and its not necessarily right. Just because you believe something doesn't make you right.
For example: A Buddhist and a Christian believe what they do, but does that make either of them right? That's what i meant -- just because you believe something doesnt make it right.
And how we to decide who is good and what is bad? Maybe I believe that religion should be abolished from government. You may believe otherwise. If we both act according to our beliefs, who is right and who is wrong?
Can faith not be mistaken? Once I may have had faith in Jesus, but I don't any longer. I have faith that my own personal spiritual quest (albeit an athiest one) will lead me where I want to go.
How can we judge others' faiths and beliefs based upon our own? How do we know that we ourselves are not wrong?
Which brings me back to the thing that you repeatedly keep ignoring: How do we know that the Bible is reliable?
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absinthebri
Joined: Feb 11, 2004
Posts: 476
From: London, UK
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What has faith got to do with Buddhism?
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kimcheeboi
Joined: Dec 19, 2003
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From: Abducted by hot blondes to Les
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it could be any religion, such as hinduism, sun worship, or whatever. Certainly as a Buddhist you follow a certain process that you believe that will make you better; what else is that than faith?
There's no need to be pretentious here.
I read Hebrews 11, and although I must admit its very inspiring, how do i know that these examples are not merely stories?
yes, many people have died for their faiths, and I do not wish to discredit their sacrifices. However, does not faith lead to things like suicide bombings? People who believe that they have been divinely appointed to do "God's work?" Faith is, in essence blind. And being quite cynical, how am I to have this faith?
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absinthebri
Joined: Feb 11, 2004
Posts: 476
From: London, UK
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I take medicine from the doctor if I want to get better. That's trust, not faith. In buddhism I only need to do what is of benefit to me; I don't need to "believe" in anything. I am not being pretentious
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[ This Message was edited by: masseur on 2004-11-16 07:52 ] |
kimcheeboi
Joined: Dec 19, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Abducted by hot blondes to Les
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whoopie our definitions of faith and trust are different.
Its too bad that people define these words differently, there is no 'one given' definition.
Now can we get back to the actual discussion?
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PIANOSSO
Joined: May 18, 2004
Posts: 62
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I'm sure you didn't read what I've asked you to. So you keep use the word 'faith' wrongfully. That's it. Of course it's unreliable if you don't trust it. And you don't trust it because It's unreliable. It's circular. You can only get out of rounding you tail by getting over your cynical state of mind, having a very little real faith. A man is good according to the righteousness of his faith. Which you cannot understandcuz you're cynical towards the versatility of the bible.
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tranquil
Joined: Dec 15, 2001
Posts: > 500
From: Oslo, Norway
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On 2004-11-16 08:55:00, kimcheeboi wrote:
Now can we get back to the actual discussion?
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Thank you.  |
kimcheeboi
Joined: Dec 19, 2003
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From: Abducted by hot blondes to Les
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On 2004-11-16 08:57:03, PIANOSSO wrote:
I'm sure you didn't read what I've asked you to. So you keep use the word 'faith' wrongfully. That's it. Of course it's unreliable if you don't trust it. And you don't trust it because It's unreliable. It's circular. You can only get out of rounding you tail by getting over your cynical state of mind, having a very little real faith. A man is good according to the righteousness of his faith. Which you cannot understandcuz you're cynical towards the versatility of the bible.
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See? That's my point!
I want to know why I can trust the Bible and have faith in what it is when to me its very unreliable!
And i do think youre traveling in circles too, you continuously support the Bible with the Bible, but what i want to know is why the Bible is a valid document today, based upon the reasons i posted earlier in this thread.
And when you discuss faith, how is it different to be an adherent of a different religion? How come they are not just as right as you?
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absinthebri
Joined: Feb 11, 2004
Posts: 476
From: London, UK
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Trust is a learned experience. Faith, by its nature, is belief beyond experience.
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kimcheeboi
Joined: Dec 19, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Abducted by hot blondes to Les
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can you please stop?!
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PIANOSSO
Joined: May 18, 2004
Posts: 62
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@kim i don't support bible with bible. I support bible with my faith in the ONE who inspired it. How do i know It's right and true ? It works in my life and other's. As abs said, the power of experience.
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Posted: 2004-11-16 07:49
