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UIQ vs S60 |Which Symbian is better| come and vote |
Dogmann
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
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From: London England
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@Mizzle
WOW what an achievement a brand new to be released device is a fast as a two year old one SE must be so proud they are nearly as good as a two year old device what progress shame still no HSDPA though. LMAO.
Oh well maybe in the next decade they will start offering 2008 ad spec's we can but hope.
Marc
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-05-21 15:59 ] | |
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Mizzle
Joined: Oct 06, 2006
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Dogmann,
That's completely irrelevant, and you're talking besides the point right now.
Compare the software, as the hardware is as alike as it gets, when considering we're talking different manufacturers and GUI's. Come on, start comparing!
I'm quite sure we'll reach the same conclusion, meaning S60 3rd comes nowhere near UIQ 3 in terms of performance on the same hardware.
ah, I think I've finally made my point as loud and clear as it gets.
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Dogmann
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: London England
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@Mizzle
But that hardware is outdated now it is 2 years old which in Mobiles is a lifetime things have moved on yet you are excited about a brand new SE G series that is a match or better than a two year old device.
This along with the info that SE aren't really pushing UIQ and see it only as a mass market solution and mass market solutions means yet again it is stifled and will not be able to reach it's full potential.
I really don't see how you have missed the fact that most of us preferred UIQ but it just isn't delivering a high end solution that any of us can choose. That is the problem with it nothing more and nothing less. Especially as it appears many of the UIQ proto's have been shelved so many of the powerful devices you believed we would see just won't arrive. Now that is disappointing and means that those like me who want all the best tech and power have to go elsewhere as SE/UIQ just doesn't offer those type of devices any longer.
Marc
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-05-21 16:48 ] |
Mizzle
Joined: Oct 06, 2006
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So what if it's outdated? Isn't that what you're saying about the Nexperia chipset anyway?
Let it go dude.
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Nipsen
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
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From: Noway
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On 2008-05-21 16:43:54, Dogmann wrote:
But even in a poor area i have got 1964kbps which isn't that much less then my supposed to be 8 meg broadband that delivers 2.7meg and as 7.2 mbps comes on line with new devices i like most people will enjoy faster than our Home broadband speeds.
Aside from that 250kb/s is much, much less than any adsl line is capable of, and is about "1Mbit" on a variable line - Yes - it's absolutely the case in many areas that this is more than you get on "broadband". But what we're talking about is to make wireless broadband a serious competition to land- lines. And the amount of data we're talking about here won't be possible to get through the existing technology. So at best we're talking about some ten years into the future, if we're getting exactly where we want to. Otherwise we'd have to invent some sort of time- slicing tech that would make time move slower on the outside.
The problem is this - for this push into this tech to happen, it must have to theoretically pay off in one of two ways - 1. subscriptions. It must be possible to sell portable modems that use tele- operators as proxies to the point where portable internet simply will outmatch land- lines. I admit it's an enticing idea - not in the least for people who have been dealing with wireless networking for a couple of years on the 2.4Ghz band, and are looking at the 5Ghz band, for example. But the fact remains - we're nowhere near where we want to be on the current switches - which makes option one impossible for the mobile giants, unless they trash all existing hardware and start over.
2. portal services, such as downloads of music, and programs, and subscription services for msn, or other types of applications. This is difficult to accomplish, but it can be done. Example, you'd update your playlist while you're waiting on the subway. Or perhaps you'd use a low speed and power- efficient connection that keeps you online all the time. And we'd finally manage to get, for example, voip solutions open to not just smartphones, but any other wireless data- device. This requires reconfiguring the networks and serious bottom up redrawing of various standards. But it can certainly be done, and would pave the way for higher speeds and higher density on the existing frequencies. The problem is whether or not it is really competitive. Whether people are actually willing to buy advanced but underpowered devices that last half a day to replace their trusty nokia or se phone, just so they can use voip. Or if anyone is remotely interested in developing that kind of tech. One alternative I've heard is improving network- specific services with dropping voice- mail, or sending voice- messages, for example. And incorporating packet- based transfers more consciously in the existing tech.
Still - we're back to the problem that at the present, having hsdpa devices is something reserved for some few, in price and so on - which again undermine the entire idea with expanding portal- services on the existing networks. Which in turn clash with the physical capabilities of the networks - if it was not reserved for the few privileged. Thereby making option 2 just as bad when it comes to the "compete with land- lines" idea.
So we return back to the fact that packet- switched traffic on comparatively lower speeds are more than enough for things like msn, email, some data- traffic and so on. So realistically at the moment, anything without hsdpa won't exactly make you miss out on much. That might change if all mobile browsers turn up with flash, and there will be more implementations of dedicated mobile pages with streaming content embedded, and so on and so forth. Or for example plugins turn up for mobile browsers like Opera. But - would people be willing to pay subscription- fees to surf you-tube, and see embedded video- content when that is enabled? I know I would consider a modest fee to have an acceptably fast line to use once in a while when I'm on the go. And I can imagine being very keen on this if I could use my laptop for more than a couple of hours without charging the battery. But can it really replace the land- lines, or become a good supplementing extra you'd really need?
I mean - how many times have the mobile- giants predicted the death of wifi so far (the modern phone- booth)? And I really do sympatize with the idea. But it's still the case that we have a really long way to go before even looking at getting past the physical barriers with the existing infrastructure on what we call mobile networks is really possible.
The same goes for the practical limits on the existing mobile chips because of 1. power- requirement, and 2. internal data- transport and compression..
So - ->on topic comment coming-> in practice, I really dispute the idea that UIQ suffers so horribly from lack of hsdpa.
The p1 Whiki - report your bugs, and add feature requests here. "Brothers and Sisters, believe! Believe in the salvation of Demand Paging, 'eah!" |
pnf1973
Joined: Oct 04, 2007
Posts: 403
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You have to admit that the p5 spec is yet another extension of the same platform designed for p800 by the guys at psion.
As such, it IS a disappointment. I agree with the argument about the need for high speed wireless, but surely point is that WHEN the killer app comes out that makes 7.2mb/sec an absolute necessity then the flagship SE smartphone is going to miss out, with users dumping the p5 for other handsets. Then the p5/p1 become a waste of money.
I was looking forward to the p5, but now it turns out that its just a p1 with GPS and a slider. I for one am disappointed, SE really need to bring out a UIQ phone with new hardware. |
Dogmann
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: London England
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@Nipsen
Are you really stuck in the 90's have you completely missed the evolution of Data use and data speeds?
Have you some how managed to not notice all the Networks spending fortunes on rolling out both 3.6mbps HSDPA and now even 7.2mbps along with manufacturers putting both 3.6mbps and now 7.2mbps HSDPA in their devices. Also just how many fixed price Data plans there are now available all of this is taking place now for use now not in 10 years.
I'm not making this up all of these are facts not conjecture 4G will be with us before 10 years has passed and that really will offer truly stunning data speeds. I just don't get why you think all this tech is so far off when it is with us now.
Marc
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-05-21 20:03 ] |
Nipsen
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
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On 2008-05-21 20:19:12, pnf1973 wrote:
You have to admit that the p5 spec is yet another extension of the same platform designed for p800 by the guys at psion.
Yeah, obviously.
As such, it IS a disappointment. I agree with the argument about the need for high speed wireless, but surely point is that WHEN the killer app comes out that makes 7.2mb/sec an absolute necessity
..such as? Set aside the fact that you won't get 7.2Mbit on any existing setup, and that the networks won't support near those speeds on a large scale - what sort of app would it be? I'm not asking this to be mean, I really do want to know - because that would easily make up some sort of pull to actually build out the networks, and look for new solutions (which is typically just for science projects so far). So - an app that requires high data- speeds, and people would be willing to pay subscription fees for using..
I was looking forward to the p5, but now it turns out that its just a p1 with GPS and a slider. I for one am disappointed, SE really need to bring out a UIQ phone with new hardware.
Still - the real problem still is the software.
Dogmann:
Are you really stuck in the 90's have you completely missed the evolution of Data use and data speeds?
Have you some how managed to not notice all the Networks spending fortunes on rolling out both 3.6mbps HSDPA and now even 7.2mbps along with manufacturers putting both 3.6mbps and now 7.2mbps HSDPA in their devices. Also just how many fixed price Data plans there are now available all of this is taking place now for use now not in 10 years.
Sure. But how many users can have those speeds consistently at the same time. That's the problem, and why at the present it's not viable as an alternative for land- based lines. And why the capacity requirements for phones need to be completely re- thought before any of this can be useful for higher data- transfer speeds. And something like that is, in spite of all the money in the mobile industry, pretty far beyond the horizon. Imagine, for example, all new phones suddenly being incompatible with the old centrals, and working on a different type of network- config? Suddenly, the phone- makers aren't really interested.
Belive me, I'm as disappointed as anyone else. |
OluYom
Joined: Oct 27, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Nigeria
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@Prom1: You have given me a comprehensive and thoughtful response, and I'll get back to you shortly after I have responded to this much less reasonable one:
Quote:
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On 2008-05-21 07:28:33, mib1800 wrote:
I read that you can't even get UIQ3 to connect to corporate wifi (802.1x). And you cannot customise UIQ3 main menu (like sub-folders). No support for UPNP. No SIP/VOIP. No HSDPA support. No support full landscape UI. No demand paging (stuck at old Symbian OS). No full contact search. No profile support. No call recording support. No UDP (user data preservation). No accelerometer. No gaming platform (like ngage). No voice dialing (without voice tag). No standard port/jack.
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Half of the things you have listed there are untruths. for example, UIQ supposedly doesn't support HSDPA but the UIQ-powered Moto Z8 runs HSDPA?
I could punch holes in the others, but I'll leave it at that, and just say differentiate between the capabilities of a user interface and what each manufacturer implements in a particular device.
Being both Symbian based, there islittle difference in what feature that can be implemented in both S60 and UIQ.
We are here looking at the software that ties the user to the Symbian core.
If we all cannot agree to this, the discussion is actually pointless. But is it not? Yet, we shall all proceed with it 
PS: I used to be known as AYA |
pnf1973
Joined: Oct 04, 2007
Posts: 403
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Anyway, back on topic.
UIQ gets my vote from a technical view, its underlying design allows for a more flexible and richer experience than s60, even if its current hardware is letting it down somewhat.
BUT for users looking for best value and most support I think you have to look at s60 or even WM6 over UIQ, sorry. |
Nipsen
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
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From: Noway
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So.. finally, WM gets a new browser that actually works - with Opera 9.5. After being stuck with IE for a while. But it's not exactly certain that all WM devices will be able to run this very quickly, or stable. Graphics drivers and so on still is a real problem for most WM devices. Stability isn't much to brag about. And there certainly is no more will from HTC to fix issues with the phones for customers who have already bought phones. Even though in the case of the graphics drivers, they certainly had reason to. WM doesn't have a public bug- tracker either - and keep changing versions without documenting exactly what the point with it was - seemingly only optimising the layout so it's slightly less reminiscent of windows 3.11.
S60 and nokia - they have had, and still have serious issues with most of the s60 phones. Every new model is still launched with some quirk around the menus or in the programs that immediately disqualifies them - the n95 had a disappearing key- problem that wasn't fixed for a year, for example. The n70 has a nice screen, but the battery is gone even faster than on the n95 - and anyone who bought these devices will have to sell them, and then buy the new one - they can't, and have no opportunity to take it back and say: "look here - one day on a full charge - what is this!" and get a new one that works. Neither will any of the older s60 devices ever be upgraded with the frequency of the new devices - or get any of the hot, new tech that somehow fails to deliver in practice. Nor do they have the monster- processors, or fecking OMAP3, even thought all the models are still thick as planks. But yes, they did get flash (some of the phones did, anyway). Huge plus there, for nokia, since it's multimedia- devices they're peddling, and all.
But if anyone seriously believe things are fundamentally different when it comes to support around the market now - try to think about what, specifically, SE has been criticised for. (And understand that it's just no discussion that the first "exceptionally buggy" firmware with the p1 was ridiculously much more stable than what's on the n95, or a WM device now.)
@OluYom: dream on. UIQ doesn't have one (as in one single device only) with 500Mhz processor and "dual core" with extra 3d chip (oooh..) - so obviously UIQ loses to the competition. No question about it. I mean - who wouldn't want a 500Mhz phone with flash that won't last a day, over something more efficient and useful - I mean, it beats me, anyway. Because UIQ is lagging behind technologically with the megahertz and 3d and shit - Even Eldar at M-R says so! And as we know - this is the future!
edit - btw, here's how things /might/ turn up and change things, and increase the usage and efficiency of various different bands, and so on:
http://www.engadgetmobile.com[....]ocessor-add-lte-or-mobile-wim/
But will the telecoms be willing to start using this tech? Or not, as a matter of fact, continue to "increase 3g penetration" instead for years and years, while they're sitting on their licenses and "rights" to other frequency bands?
Oh - I wonder...
[ This Message was edited by: Nipsen on 2008-05-22 12:15 ] |
pnf1973
Joined: Oct 04, 2007
Posts: 403
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I do agree, up to a point. YES the nexperia chip used in the SEMP is great at what it does, and for very little power too. YES battery life on the p1 is one thing that will have ALL n95 users drooling for. YES the UI is pretty darn consistent and (IMHO on the p1) largely bug free experience.
BUT what innovation have SE actually done? what have they in all honesty done to improve the platform? We are using the same basic tech as the p800 employed. More RAM admittedly and more storage, but still the same old problems.
A "unified" inbox which must completely redraw everytime its shown, once for each type of message stored in it.
A camera with problems (anyone remember how bad the p910 cam was?) tints, lag after each and every save (surely the actual write to the jpg could happen in a back ground thread? come on!), no autofocus rectangle, SLOW autofocus
A truly awful backup software (backup incomplete, connection reset by phone anyone?)
NO GODDAMNED PROFILE SUPPORT!!!
Pitiful customer support
We can go on....
I like my p1, but i don't like SE. They are complacent, they don't give a sh*t for their customers, and they have totally and utterly wasted what is arguably the most powerful and flexible UI designed for small screens written to date.
I think uiq is very nearly at the point where the only thing that could save it from iphone, android and WM is to make the whole thing open source. Maybe then nice tech heads like you and me could actually get to grips with stuff like the messaging app, the cam driver and *gasp* fix the bloody things! *double gasp* maybe even write a profile system (does it have profiles? .... No..... but if i hold this key down i can put it in silent..... WHAT!!!! IS THIS A BUSINESS PHONE OR NOT????)
Sorry, rant over. Been a long day, things have really been getting on my nerves today. And people. And crap not working. And ppl nicking my parking space. And....
Calm.....
Breathe deeply......
o_O |
ares
Joined: Dec 11, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Coimbra, Portugal
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Agree with almost everything you say, but have to make a littke correction: the p1 does have autofocus rectangle, now (i also got rid of green tint, but that seems did not happen to all) |
pnf1973
Joined: Oct 04, 2007
Posts: 403
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On 2008-05-23 01:26:35, ares wrote:
Agree with almost everything you say, but have to make a littke correction: the p1 does have autofocus rectangle, now (i also got rid of green tint, but that seems did not happen to all)
Well, if i could back the d*mn thing up, maybe i could upgrade to the latest fw.
grumble grumble grumble |
chamak
Joined: Jan 05, 2006
Posts: 226
From: Bangladesh
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Back to page 3 
@Prom1
Cricket players always use to play football for warm up, but that doesn't make them football players. Hope I make you understand what I'm trying to say. Caller ID image, and missed call/sms alert IMO is a needed feature which S60 failed to implement thus far. Yes, it can be used for business advantage but that doesn't necessarily make it a business feature. I used to enjoy these *simple* features since my T610, which definitely wasn't a business device rather a multimedia device.
Ppl still check their Facebook (multimedia), email (personal or forwarded email Multimedia), and also sales of their personal business online (X1397 sells all KINDS of stuff on the net).
plus I think facebook is not directly a business oriented site right? And, that my friend was exactly what I was pointing to, same goes for e-mail now a days.
The caller ID is something moved over by 's platform (A1/2) phones over to their UIQ implementation.IN no way is it directly related, as we can see on the Z8/10 by Motorola.
Why do you say so? Just because Motorola counldn't implement something and Sony Ericsson implemented in their UIQ3 sets it made it out of UIQ3's scope? I hope someone here could understand what is OS and what is hardware, let alone implementation (Yes of-course I'm pointing to Dogmann now).
N95, limiting S60 stressed thumbs due to buttons is not fair. Nokia makes a WIDE range of S60 devices, all with varying button layouts & types. You must've not spent a lot of time playing NES or Gameboy when you where young, hehe. I'm used to small buttons just because of that.
Well, I was focusing on using touchscreen which is an advantage of UIQ thus far, can you point me any S60 device with which I can have the same experience ?
One additional point for you: In S60 there's no Unified call log, you can't tell what call type happened after what, as all incoming, outgoing and missed calls are on different tab ONLY, unless you dig down two level of menu and open up logs. And trust me, it's a great time saver when you try to find did your gf missed call you after or before you called .
@Dogmann
Hi Prom 1
Well said about those functions i would also of never of guessed they were just for Multimedia devices and that no buisness users would find them useful.
Could you please clarify then why did you told I was comparing multimedia vs business oriented device, which you would never of guessed before Prom1 narrated? (While clearly I was comparing UIQ3 vs S60, by my personal opinion?)
Again, as an OS UIQ3 is far more superior to S60 in almost every aspect, but again if I compare hardware-wise S60 devices are way more advanced right now.
And last but not least
Wow ppl are so easily ready to pic on Marc, though he does evoke thought, heated at times.
If that was directed to me, I generally don't pick on Dogmann's words, because this is what I personally think of him doing every time he is in a thread:
As for the attacks well there just water of a ducks back once some one manages to use facts as opposed to just there biased opinion and what they want or need so of course it must be the same for everyone else i may get worried but I'm still waiting for that to happen.
In addition I always feel he is just too pointed to his *hardware* spec. sheet that almost everytime he forgets what's this thread about.
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Posted: 2008-05-21 16:47
