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The Future of SE's Java Platform |
mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
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max_wedge:
Until s60 3rd edition, it wasn't the UI that put me off but the stablity.
Why was s60 so crash worthy for so long
You have no idea what you talking about.  S60 was already stable since the days of 7610/6630. Nokia had sold gazillions of 7610 and there were no major complains like those of K850, P990. N70 was relatively slow but it is not unstable (for generic firmware). I can't say for branded ones. The K750 had more problems when it came out than N70.
[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2007-12-10 05:34 ] | |
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max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
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mib, I can't agree, my K750 was 100 times more stable from new than the N70 I acquired even after putting the latest firmware on it. Though I'm sure every user has a different story, the majority of K750's sold where rock steady.
dogmann, about Vista, I'm not dissing it, I like the OS quite alot, but for business users, a lot of business software doesn't run on Vista. I'm not talking Office etc, I'm talking smaller vendors of crucial business software (such as PPMP or EazyHR). Several of my customers simply can't use Vista because their existing client database software won't run on Vista. Sure this is a vendor issue, but my point is that MS release an os that has poor backward compatibility. Whose fault is that, the OS vendor or the software vendor? It might be okay for the average home user, but for many businesses Vista is a mess.
@shyamm335, Java on K800 supports a max. of 8 applications according to SE, but perhaps that's just a guideline. A200 will probably support more than that.
After doing a bit of googling, I think you may be right about J2ME running on the main processor (I can't find any info to say either way), but either way it is sandboxed and is separate from normal processor/memory space.
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islandprd
Joined: Nov 29, 2007
Posts: 176
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On 2007-12-10 07:45:01, max_wedge wrote:
mib, I can't agree, my K750 was 100 times more stable from new than the N70 I acquired even after putting the latest firmware on it. Though I'm sure every user has a different story, the majority of K750's sold where rock steady.
dogmann, about Vista, I'm not dissing it, I like the OS quite alot, but for business users, a lot of business software doesn't run on Vista. I'm not talking Office etc, I'm talking smaller vendors of crucial business software (such as PPMP or EazyHR). Several of my customers simply can't use Vista because their existing client database software won't run on Vista. Sure this is a vendor issue, but my point is that MS release an os that has poor backward compatibility. Whose fault is that, the OS vendor or the software vendor? It might be okay for the average home user, but for many businesses Vista is a mess.
After doing a bit of googling, I think you may be right about J2ME running on the main processor (I can't find any info to say either way), but either way it is sandboxed and is separate from normal processor/memory space.
My current k750 is rock stable and it has served me well over 2-3 years. It never visit service centre and software never updated 
I agree with Max on Vista at business environment. It is more for home or for less demanding applications/users. All our new laptop and desktop for office comes with WinVista Business. All of them downgraded officially free to XP pro. One day we can upgrade to vista again when all softwares glitches are fixed. Ms acknowledge that many business softwares may have compatibility issues with Vista hence the free downgrade program for Vista Business and Ultimate. Surprisingly not all Ms softwares are compatible fully with Vista.
I have Win Vista for my quad core home desktop and I have no problem with it except it is more resources hungry than xp pro. |
mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
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max_wedge:
mib, I can't agree, my K750 was 100 times more stable
100 times is an exagerration . But I agree that your K750 (just like my samsung e700/d600) is more stable than N70. I know many who use the N70 as a "normal" phone dont have issues with it.
I still have my N70 on original firmware and it is very stable. Only issue is if you are playing java game and call comes in, it will reboot. Considering it is a smart OS, I think it will never reach the level of stability of most non-smart. |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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From: Australia
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On 2007-12-10 08:06:44, mib1800 wrote:
max_wedge:
mib, I can't agree, my K750 was 100 times more stable
100 times is an exagerration . But I agree that your K750 (just like my samsung e700/d600) is more stable than N70. I know many who use the N70 as a "normal" phone dont have issues with it.
I still have my N70 on original firmware and it is very stable. Only issue is if you are playing java game and call comes in, it will reboot. Considering it is a smart OS, I think it will never reach the level of stability of most non-smart.
Yeah, that was a little over exaggerated 
Truth told I like the N70, but it was the stability and UI that put me off. Somethings I like about it, the video is better than K750 (and I solved the jerkiness problem with a master reset - now it only happens when saving video direct to mem card), the 3G connection works well and the signal is strong and the handset is rugged. I don't like the Keypad, dpad, UI and the slider opens of it's own accord at the drop of a hat  But I do have a soft spot for it - it was my first 3G phone and I still use it for buying music with prepaid credit.
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ares
Joined: Dec 11, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Coimbra, Portugal
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Here we go again...saying that Nokia never had stability issues with s60 devices, like P990 had, is a freakin LIE...just go back and read what happen with first n80īs, etc...Mib1800, stop throwing sand to peopleīs eyes, as usual...not everything Nokia does is always good
Regarding this discussion, right now i donīt consider a java only device enough for people wanting a smarphone...in the future, however, this could change...Java did "grow" much since the T610 days, and is getting better and better
SE w880 + Iphone 4 16gb |
mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
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On 2007-12-10 11:14:21, ares wrote:
Here we go again...saying that Nokia never had stability issues with s60 devices, like P990 had, is a freakin LIE...just go back and read what happen with first n80īs, etc...Mib1800, stop throwing sand to peopleīs eyes, as usual...not everything Nokia does is always good
Problems with one phone does not mean the entire S60 is unstable. This is what I am trying to say to max_wedge. Of all the N-series the only N80 has major issues. But this was fixed quickly with the one firmware update.
And if you care to read carefully, I said 7610/N70 did not have problems at the same scale as P990. In no way that I am impying the stability of the entire range of S60 PHONES is the same as the stability of the S60 platform.
I am not throwing sands at people eyes. It is just that you have prejudice in your eyes to start with.
[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2007-12-10 11:12 ] |
islandprd
Joined: Nov 29, 2007
Posts: 176
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On 2007-12-10 11:14:21, ares wrote:
not everything Nokia does is always good
Agree wholeheartedly
Before anyone draw flaks again, this statement goes to any other brands with no but (no exception) whatsoever |
Krubach
Joined: Dec 05, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: Sunny Portugal! :)
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I've seen the comments about Java being better than C++ because it has garbage collection... Do you really mean that?
Garbage collection is for lousy programmers who forget the memory they request, or even worse, that intentionally leave it allocated thinking that it will be freed sooner or later.
[addsig] |
mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
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Java is a COMPROMISE for developers who want to target as many platforms as possible without need to rewrite code.
Real/serious apps developers write apps using the native platform API because they do not want to put up with the always lethargic and out-of-breath Java. |
ares
Joined: Dec 11, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Coimbra, Portugal
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Problems with one phone does not mean the entire S60 is unstable.
Same goes for UIQ...and it was not only the N80 that had problems...you just have to read nokia related user forums. Mind you, i am not claiming SE is better...
Anyway, right now, for my needs, i wonīt go to a SE feature phone again, even with all A200 platform improvements
SE w880 + Iphone 4 16gb |
masseur
Joined: Jan 03, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Sydney, London
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since this has been derailed I'm going to bring this back on track
This is NOT a discussion of which platform is best, which is more stable, which is more (whatever)... this is a discussion of "The Future of SE's Java Platform", which clearly there will be a future for, even if SE do eventually take windows mobile on board
more specifically this is about...
On 2007-12-08 09:23:06, razec wrote:
now my purpose for creating this thread is for us(J2ME lovers,users,fans) to expect/predict what would be SE's J2ME after JP-8 which currently supports MSA, Accelerometer API and Java binding for OpenGL(3D graphics, the reason why JP-8 phones now support QVGA+ resolution video rec. and better 3D Java games) yeah i'm talking about JP-9! if you ask me, i expect JP-9 to support CDC profile and MIDP 3 as well as many other APIs to be released from Sun's J2ME community  how about you? share us some  J2ME lovers
so please now keep this discussion to just that
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Krubach
Joined: Dec 05, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: Sunny Portugal! :)
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Ok.
The future will be JSR9 and then JSR10 and so on...
Not really much to say really.
Available Java features on SE devices will only depend on Java version itself. |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
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so does anyone have any rumours of jp9?
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[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2007-12-12 00:46 ] |
razec
Joined: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: Mars
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^^ surely it will feature CDC profile and MIDP-3 as i mentioned upon the introductory post but i do also expect the next UIQ to feature every APIs JP-9 would have + less restrictions/limitations. because Symbian was natively incompatible with the high-performance hardwares i.e. Nvidia Goforce or Imageon. imho porting/embeeding some driver codes from SE's non-os phones to the UIQ platform would probably enable UIQ smartphones to use better hardwares than what is currently used.
Nvidia Goforce 6100's DSP, Video and Apps processing > TI-OMAP 2430s: agree?
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Posted: 2007-12-10 06:30
