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The Danish Mohammad cartoon row - what do you think? |
leeboy13
Joined: Sep 28, 2005
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From: Brissle - dodgy accients
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People say "the good ones should stop the bad from giving a bad rep" Guys, the good don't need to prove anything except to God. We've got good 'ole USA to help show us who's good or bad.
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[ This Message was edited by: amnesia on 2006-02-09 16:42 ]
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can i just say - if you feel that way - nothing to prove - why the hell are you debating this.... if what youre saying is true then surely a 'cartoon' is a joke.... nothing serious.... and more importantly than that, god knows you didnt do it... hence nothing to prove.... in the eyes of god | |
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amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
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From: Doha, London, Tokyo, Shanghai
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@lee, Am I proving myself? or am I trying to expand your mind to understand that there is more than one side to things?
If someone tells me that 1+1=3, should I let them live their lives not knowing the truth?
also, where do you get the logic that if I have nothing to prove it means that the cartoon in my eyes is just a joke.
I dont demonstrate, I dont threaten, I dont support extremists yet I hate that cartoon because it associates Islam with Terrorism AND it shows a lack of respect for another religion.
Just as I hated it when in South Park they made fun of Jesus, Just as I hated it when I saw the Time's article that had a picture of a Sikhi saying "rupunzel throw down your hair"
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[ This Message was edited by: amnesia on 2006-02-09 16:54 ] |
leeboy13
Joined: Sep 28, 2005
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From: Brissle - dodgy accients
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sorry i wrote that a big miss leading, i dont think that, and i appreciate you are trying to help others understand.... I just feel you seem to have the view some people can be 'laughed' at (in this case the americans - please dont make me quote you) but when soemone draws a cartoon - peoples gotta die...
I aint having a dig, not by a long shot, if anything im trying to understand better  |
amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
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From: Doha, London, Tokyo, Shanghai
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for Scots
Jordan:
http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/05/12/15/10005057.html
Bahrain:
http://www.un.org/webcast/ga/56/statements/011113bahrainE.htm
Qatar:
http://decade-culture-of-peace.org/undebate/qatar.html
Kuwait:
http://kuwait.usembassy.gov/september_11_2005.html
UAE:
http://kuwait.usembassy.gov/september_11_2005.html
Pakistan:
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/[....]asp?page=story_7-2-2005_pg7_19
marching:
Lebanon:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/03/28/iraq/main546541.shtml
Bahrain:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2669611.stm
http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/[....]dle-east-north-africa/bahrain/
other articles:
http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/020318/FP.html
I hope that will satisfy some as to showing them that Islamic countries don't sit idle but actively participate in stopping Extremism. (although I doubt this will satisfy some)
@lee, I guess the way that I feel, is that religion is sacred and it's something that somebody truely believes in with all their heart, to disrepect the religion, is to disrespect that person.
If I say 'the US are bastards', I don't mean every individual, but rather, the government, and those who support war for example. Although as you can see, it's not nice is it when people use the word US when referring to one group. I should say US Government.
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[ This Message was edited by: amnesia on 2006-02-09 17:05 ] |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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You KNOW I don't have anything against you, but you pick at people's comments as if your opinion is absolute.
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It's called making an argument. If you disagree with my opinion then feel free to, it's called freedom of speech.
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I'm sorry to say this but it seems that you really take your opinion as fact. |
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I take my opinion as what I believe; it would not be worth saying if I did not believe it was true.
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If you want to question my logic, feel free, but make it clear in your posts that you are trying to understand, not that I'm wrong, when it's just your opinion.
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Everyone here is stating their own opinion, we do not need to add a disclaimer to our posts stating that. How people interpret each others' posts is up to them.
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Finally, You've just asked me to point out mass demonstrations.
Why do I have to? (I will search now, despite having the biggest migrane on earth)
Asking me to prove myself is saying that I'm a liar until I prove that I'm saying the truth.
God says "Trust until they give you a reason to lose that trust".
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You said that we should look at various media sources, which suggested that you knew of relevant instances, which they had covered. I therefore asked you to provide some examples so that we could see what you mean. Since we were discussing that issue providing examples would be useful to this debate.
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And again regarding language. Scots, you of all people, if a leader knows the english language properly, does it mean that ALL Muslim's need to know it.
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I never said that, but one would have thought that those protesting in London, who live in Britain, would be familiar with the English language.
Equally people who are not familia with English would presumably tend to look for the closest translation of a word or phrase. If you translate 'punishment' from a foriegn language into English, I doubt whether 'behead' or 'slay' would be the closest matches.
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You've just proven the point that people associate one person with the whole group. If one speaks well, the others do too, if one makes a threat, the others do too, if one is an extremist, they all are too.
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Your interpretation of my post seems to have led you to an incorrect assessment. If your read over my last post you will see that the comment concerning Islamic leaders was a seperate point, indicated by the fact that it was given a seperate paragraph. Also the comments concerning Islamic leaders were in relation to your point concerning language, not mass protests. That should have been evident from the fact that I used the term 'Islamic leaders' rather than a more general term, which would have included all Muslims.
It is also worth pointing out that if you read over my previous posts in this thread you will see at once that I have repeatedly drawn distinctions between Islam in general and the actions of extremists.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
Sammy_boy
Joined: Mar 31, 2004
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From: Staffordshire, United Kingdom
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The problem perhaps also is that all religions seem to take themselves soooo seriously, and cannot laugh at themselves. Surely the ability to laugh at yourself is an important part of being a good person, I obviously cannot comment as such, but wouldn't Muhammad agree that this is important?
I really can't stand all the dogma and rhetoric that surrounds all of the main religions. Can we not be spiritual without all this bollocks?
Sorry, getting a bit pissed off. Partly because I've just broken the data ribbon on a Samsung E700 I was taking apart! 
@amnesia, I hope the migrane goes away soon, try lying down in a dark room. That sometimes helps my girlfriend who often gets them
"All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke
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amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
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From: Doha, London, Tokyo, Shanghai
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pick at my posts all you like Scots.
You just said we don't need to post a disclaimer, but you feel like you have to let me know that this is an argument and your opinions are based on free speech...
my argument is that you seem to be 'expecting' something from people, where it can be said that what someone expects and what they get is totally different.
When my mother punishes me and I am angry, in Arabic, it would be called 'torture', it doesn't mean torture in English, that's just the word that's used.
Look at the word behead. In Islam, beheading was a common form of punishment to criminals (just as it was in England and France). So the word beheading is common. For example. If I want to be sarcastic, I say "Wow, it's like you want to behead me".
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[ This Message was edited by: amnesia on 2006-02-09 17:22 ] |
SCORPIONKING1982
Joined: Mar 11, 2003
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From: Leeswood
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amnesia beheading was common but we dont go round saying we should behead anyone, not even murderers and peedo's!
myspace.com/scorpionking1982 |
solidsingh
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
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From: india
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king - i dont think thats the point he is trying to make
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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Heartening to read those although I already knew that some Islamic governments had declared their opposition to terrorism.  However, one should also ask the question why such states haven't taken as hard a line against other Islamic who have supported terrorims as they have done over these cartoons. Libya, Iran and Syria have all supported terrorists at some point, and some of them still do; shouldn't they be boycotted too?
These seems to largely document protests against the Iraq war/occupation rather than protests against extremist Islamic violence. There are also a few references of people calling for death on America.
There are condemnations of Islamic extremists by governments and individuals, which is of course wonderful to hear, but I couldn't find anything about mass protests against Islamic extremism. Some of the articles were quite long so I may very well have missed something, if I have could you point it out please?
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I hope that will satisfy some as to showing them that Islamic countries don't sit idle but actively participate in stopping Extremism. (although I doubt this will satisfy some)
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It is certainly worth people knowing that Islamic states do stand against Islamic extremism, but that isn't the whole point that is being discussed here. I think that there are in fact two facets of this issue; why there seems to be little in the way of mass protest in the Islamic world against extremist violence and why Islamic states are not acting against Islamic extremism in the same way they are acting against these cartoons.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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On 2006-02-09 18:18:22, amnesia wrote:
pick at my posts all you like Scots.
You just said we don't need to post a disclaimer, but you feel like you have to let me know that this is an argument and your opinions are based on free speech...
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The operative word being 'you' since no one else seems to have felt it necessary to raisse the issue.
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my argument is that you seem to be 'expecting' something from people, where it can be said that what someone expects and what they get is totally different.
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This is a thread on an internet forum, I am not expecting anything from anyone. Expectation leads to disappointment, which can lead to resentment and anger. However, you seem to feel that I am expecting something, what that is I am not sure though.
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When my mother punishes me and I am angry, in Arabic, it would be called 'torture', it doesn't mean torture in English, that's just the word that's used.
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Then that is the word used in Arabic, that still doesn't explain why those protesting in London, who one would imagine have a good grasp of English would choose to use words like 'behead' and 'slay'.
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Look at the word behead. In Islam, beheading was a common form of punishment to criminals (just as it was in England and France). So the word beheading is common. For example. If I want to be sarcastic, I say "Wow, it's like you want to behead me".
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'Murder' is a common word, so is 'kill', so is 'shoot'. The context such words are used in is important; I might very well say something like 'I could murder a Guinness', but that use of the word is quite different to protesting in the street with a placard saying that someone should be murdered.
I don't believe that those people who were protesting in London, who have lived in Britain, would not be aware of the use of the English language. One does not need to be an English teacher to realise that waving a placard calling for people to be killed is not simply using a 'common' word.
Incidentally beheading was never a common form of punishment in England, it was mostly reserved for major crimes such as treason. Hanging was far more common.
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[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2006-02-09 18:02 ] |
amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
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From: Doha, London, Tokyo, Shanghai
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"Then that is the word used in Arabic, that still doesn't explain why those protesting in London, who one would imagine have a good grasp of English would choose to use words like 'behead' and 'slay'. "
I'm saying it is a literal translation and to those people and others it is the closest word to their true definition.
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solidsingh
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: india
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i get what you mean - we have the same problem with punjabi, you can say somethin in punjabi and have it translated but it wont mean the same thing, sounds weird but unless u speak 2 languages u wont understand
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GreenKronic
Joined: Oct 08, 2005
Posts: 1
From: Tampa,Fl
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why why why this is crazy. it is a CARTOON get over it.is this how petty peoples lives are that they get offended by a pencil drawing.this is not to the whole of the islamic religon but some of you are out there.offended by a cartoon.Religon equals Hate.Religon is the cause of most problems.so screw all of the gods for your the problem. |
solidsingh
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: india
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how can you make such a statement - name me one problem that sikhism has caused?
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Posted: 2006-02-09 17:50
