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The Danish Mohammad cartoon row - what do you think? |
Sammy_boy
Joined: Mar 31, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Staffordshire, United Kingdom
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This thread looks like it's veering close to being a flame war at times now....
For me, free speech is being able to say whatever you want.... but also applying your common sense. Like publishing a cartoon denigrating Islam's greatest prophet would be insulting the majority of Muslims and causing more bad feeling towards the West - I would have used my common sense and said no if publishing those cartoons was my call.
As Amnesia has said, basically it's two civilisations that just don't understand each other, a bit of education about each would probably help with that understanding and perhaps mean both sides show each other a bit of respect and empathy. But not taking political correctness too far, and stopping kids sending Christmas cards in case it offends a 'minority' or something! But that's a different debate.
This is actually one of the most sucessful threads I've created, so perhaps a bit loathe to get a mod to lock it!  Will see how it goes. Any more childishness (almost as bad as those we are debating at times!), and I'll get this locked (if a mod doesn't beat me to it! )
"All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke
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JK
Joined: Feb 24, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: S. Africa - JOZI
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Shouldnt it be closed when everythings sorted? I mean theres still protests going on... |
leeboy13
Joined: Sep 28, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: Brissle - dodgy accients
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sorry, have i missed something here - wheres the childishness?
the thread is headed: 'The Danish Mohammad cartoon row - what do you think?'
Surely people are saying what they think? and as far as i can see its being debated well....
personally id like to understand why it offends people so much (which im learning from this thread), so alls good? |
whizkidd
Joined: May 14, 2004
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From: India
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Yeah. The flame wars have not started yet! So why lock?  
T230 >> T610 >> Ngage QD >> N73 >> N85 >> Omnia HD >> And countless other review units |
Sammy_boy
Joined: Mar 31, 2004
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From: Staffordshire, United Kingdom
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A couple of folk have come close - I just don't want this to descend into a flame war. And besides, I'm loathe to get locked a thread I've started that's actually been quite sucessful!
"All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke
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SCORPIONKING1982
Joined: Mar 11, 2003
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From: Leeswood
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Did anyone see that program on the white power rock groups this week? Think it was on channel 5.
It showed some quite sickening levels of racism and predjudice against muslims, blacks and jews buy american and european people that at times I found quite hard to watch.
What was interesting though was seeing the varying levels of police and government intervention in the various countries. The european countries (UK included) and some american states were very strict on what could be said, going to great lengths to stop these people preaching this hatred. On the other hand some american states allowed total free speach. People are allowed to say literally ANYTHING they want. There were rallies by white power groups quite openly preaching a quite sickening level of racism.
Which of these two attitudes is right is obviously down to personal opinion but I feel that allowing total free speach as in the american states is a dangerous game. The european attitudes seemed to be that you have every right to feel how you do but go too far and we'll come down hard on you.
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Sammy_boy
Joined: Mar 31, 2004
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From: Staffordshire, United Kingdom
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Another parallel I can draw is that i'm a member of a forum which is billed as a 'free speech' board, no one gets banned and people can swear, say what they want with no fear. It's full of flame wars, pointless threads.... and idiots! I don't post there any more.
There can be sometimes too much free speech. It's not the free speech that's the issue, it's that a few individuals lack either the intelligence or self-control to use it appropriately.
"All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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On 2006-02-09 00:52:11, amnesia wrote:
could this thread just die?
It's already been established that some don't understand why the Muslim's reacted this way, and some don't understand why non-Muslim's don't understand.
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I'm surprised no one else picked up on this. This comment is essentially laying the blme for this entire situation at the feet of non-Muslims. In effect it is saying that Muslims are not being understood and that Muslims do not understand why non-Muslims are not able to understand.
First of all the Muslim reaction is being understood perfectly well; Muslims have been offended by the cartoons. Furthermore, legitimate opposition to the cartoons that many Muslims will have had are being exploited by those seeking to cause divide and confrontation to whip up Muslim feeling into violence.
Secondly I don't believe that Muslims, or anyone else, are somehow incapable of understanding Western views or culture. I have every confidence that many Muslims, especially those who are Westerners themselves, understand why many in the West are apalled at the violence we have seen and why many hold freedom of speech so dearly.
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It's already been established, that making a mockery of one religion shows a lack of respect,
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No that has not been shown. What has been shown is that in a society which values freedom of speech, no one religion is off limits to public debate, discussion, questioning, examination and satitre. To not include a particualr religion in that process is to somehow classify it as being 'special' in relation to other religions and thus one is denigrating other religions.
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and the reaction that's currently been show is completely over the top and could have not been escalated as high.
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Agreed.
@axxxr
I couldn't disagree with your comments on political correctness more. Political correctness is quite frankly pathetic; it seeks to impose a veneer of platitudes upon society. The politically correct crowd live their lives constantly fearing that they will upset someone. Personally I don't see that as being a good way to live one's life.
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[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2006-02-09 13:47 ] |
joebmc
Joined: Jan 03, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Kent
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I for one never knew that drawing pictures of Muslim prophets was against the Islamic law and I imagine now there are many westerners (aka non-Muslims) who now no different, but it’s not our fault that we never new, is it?
The vast majority of these protests seem to have been taking over buy extremist/fundamentalist who have dragged down public opinion of Muslims and Islam.
Now surly Muslims would like to rid there religion of these types of people but there are never any protests buy Muslims against Muslim extremists. Why is that?
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JK
Joined: Feb 24, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: S. Africa - JOZI
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March in Cape Town SA! 10 000 people!! 
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SCORPIONKING1982
Joined: Mar 11, 2003
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From: Leeswood
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On 2006-02-09 15:21:44, joebmc wrote:
The vast majority of these protests seem to have been taking over buy extremist/fundamentalist who have dragged down public opinion of Muslims and Islam.
Now surly Muslims would like to rid there religion of these types of people but there are never any protests buy Muslims against Muslim extremists. Why is that?
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joe this has been my thoughts all along, ive posted the question several times but it seems to have either been missed or ignored completely! I'd really love someone who is muslim themself to give a proper answer to this question.
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goldenface
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Liverpool City Centre
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@joebmc. I think because they propagate a culture of fear with their teachings. Like the placard shakers, they use words like 'behead' and 'annihilate' etc. Making people scared to death of them. Hardly words of peace are they? :-l
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joebmc
Joined: Jan 03, 2003
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From: Kent
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On 2006-02-09 15:37:12, goldenface wrote:
@joebmc. I think because they propagate a culture of fear with their teachings. Like the placard shakers, they use words like 'behead' and 'annihilate' etc. Making people scared to death of them. Hardly words of peace are they? :-l
This message was posted from a S700
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And that’s why Muslims need to make a stand against them. There happy enough to stand against the “west” but when it comes to there own it’s a different matter.
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leeboy13
Joined: Sep 28, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: Brissle - dodgy accients
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On 2006-02-09 15:35:59, SCORPIONKING1982 wrote:
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On 2006-02-09 15:21:44, joebmc wrote:
The vast majority of these protests seem to have been taking over buy extremist/fundamentalist who have dragged down public opinion of Muslims and Islam.
Now surly Muslims would like to rid there religion of these types of people but there are never any protests buy Muslims against Muslim extremists. Why is that?
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joe this has been my thoughts all along, ive posted the question several times but it seems to have either been missed or ignored completely! I'd really love someone who is muslim themself to give a proper answer to this question.
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I'd really like to hear the response to that too 
any takers??? |
SCORPIONKING1982
Joined: Mar 11, 2003
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From: Leeswood
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11247934/
USTARZAI, Pakistan - A suicide bomb ripped through a Shiite Muslim procession Thursday in northwestern Pakistan, sparking riots during the Muslim sect’s most important holiday. At least 22 people were killed and dozens injured, officials said
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11252586/
ISTANBUL - Istanbul’s police chief said a bomb blast on Thursday at an Internet cafe in the city had wounded 14 people.
“It’s a bomb explosion, there are 14 injured. One of them is seriously injured,” Celalettin Cerrah told reporters after visiting the Internet cafe where the blast occurred. Six of the injured were police officers, he said
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11251690/
Hezbollah supporters chant "death to America, death to Israel" during a religious rally in Beirut, Lebanon, Thursday that focused on the caricature controversy. Several hundred thousand people attended the rally.
“Defending the prophet should continue worldwide,” Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Hezbollah, told the crowd. “Let (U.S. Secretary of State) Condoleezza Rice, (President) Bush and all the tyrants shut up: We are a nation that can’t forgive, be silent or ease up when they insult our prophet and our sacred values.”
“Today, we are defending the dignity of our prophet with a word, a demonstration but let George Bush and the arrogant world know that if we have to ... we will defend our prophet with our blood, not our voices,” Nasrallah added.
EDIT: What have israel got to do with this cartoon business? Evidence I think that some factions are using this unrest to further their own gains.
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[ This Message was edited by: SCORPIONKING1982 on 2006-02-09 15:26 ] |
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Posted: 2006-02-09 12:06
