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Sony Ericsson XPERIA X1 discussion |
daytrade
Joined: Sep 05, 2008
Posts: 8
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Had a question. Will the A-GPS on the X1 still work without a sim? I plan on using Copilot. TIA
[ This Message was edited by: daytrade on 2008-09-22 13:56 ] | |
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masseur
Joined: Jan 03, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Sydney, London
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that price is on a 24 month contract
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anonymuser
Joined: Dec 17, 2002
Posts: > 500
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On 2008-09-22 14:30:26, max_wedge wrote:
Well I admit I'm wrong then but if you think you need to use a screen protector on a WM then I wonder because I've never had an issue with WM devices and touchscreens being damaged. I've never used a screen protector.
Look, this doesn't have to be complex, it's a simple truth that the type of touchscreen you find on a WM device is inherently soft and flexible. It has to be - that's central to how they work. You can't put a solid glass screen on one, say, and expect the pressure sensitive layer underneath to detect where your stylus is - you have to use a softer material. And however stiff it might be, a softer plastic is always, always, going to be more prone to scratching from any number of objects it might come in contact with in its normal daily life. By definition it's a softer material than they'd put on the rest of the phone - have you never had a scratch on a phone?
btw, I'm not misleading anyone on purpose - please get down off your high horse. In my experience WM phones have hard screens. We can argue about symantics about the meaning of rigid etc, but the fact is the screens are designed to protect the lcd and to say you need a screen protector just indicates excessive force is being used.
No, not at all, it's just a sensible precaution to take when a stray penstroke could mark the screen. The Tytn II (my current phone) came with a screen protector in the box, and HTC didn't put it there for fun. I'd be surprised if the X1 didn't come with one too. If you carry and use one of these phones on a continual basis, for a year say, without using any form of screen protector, the chances of you not putting a scratch on it somewhere are pretty minimal.
Can I ask which WM phones with "hard screens" you've used? Did you use them for a long time? I'm honestly struggling to think which phones you mean - the HTC Touch range is only a year or so old, and are the only WM phones I can think of with that slightly stiffer top layer. My Tytn II, which is only a year old, definitely does not have a "hard screen" - just a normal inset screen like the X1, P1, etc.
I do struggle with your description of any of these screens as "hard". They're not rigid, they're not solid, they flex - just as they're supposed to.
It's easier to force an impression on the lcd of my W910 or my mate's N95 than it is on any of my WM phones (I just tried). And the W910 uses "rigid" polycarbonate. The N95 screen is just plain soft though.
In all fairness to the screens on the W910 and N95 (two phones I'd never compare the X1 to anyway) neither are designed to be scribbled on with a stylus every day. We're not talking about the flexing of the underlying LCD here anyway, we're talking about the flexing of the soft touch-sensitive layer on top. That's what differentiates phones like the X1 or P1 from the screen of the Ipod Touch or Iphone. It's that soft plastic layer that can easily become scratched and scuffed.
In my memory, and I admit I don't have anywhere as much experience with UIQ phones as I do with WM, but in my memory their screens are not as rigid as WM.
I went straight from the M600i (immediate successor to the P1) to the Tytn II, and there's virtually no difference.
If I'm wrong fair enough but it's not because I'm trying to mislead anyone. I think you've got it in your head that anyone who makes any kind of positive comment about the X1 is an SE apologist. It's becoming a bit lame tbh.
You keep bringing up this apologist idea, it's not from anything I've said. Thanks to you, there's a poster here that's gone away happily believing that his X1 is going to have a hard screen like his Ipod Touch - that's quite wrong, and it's surprising to see you still defending it.
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tonyitalian
Joined: Sep 02, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Earth
PM |
any news on when expansys will have it in stock?????????
SE Rulez! |
Caspa
Joined: Nov 28, 2001
Posts: > 500
From: London, UK.
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still showing as pre-order... |
BIG-Stan
Joined: Sep 07, 2006
Posts: 134
From: Germany
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On 2008-09-22 14:45:47, masseur wrote:
that price is on a 24 month contract
Actually, it says it is without contract.
But I never heard of that store before and the price seems to low for me...
I'd be a bit suspicious about that.....have to read a few rating on the shop... |
masseur
Joined: Jan 03, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Sydney, London
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ah! I saw the * by the price but missed that the * comments further down related to the various network prices so it would seem you are right. I suppose if I'd been more careful, the "ohne tarif" comment just above the price was a dead giveaway, but yeah, its far too cheap to be valid
Here's a babelfish translation btw.
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BIG-Stan
Joined: Sep 07, 2006
Posts: 134
From: Germany
PM |
Yeah, I got confused there for a minute too...
I just read some rating about the shop and it seems that they are ok. I was about to order x1 without the contract for that price but you cant buy it yet. I think they might crank up the price as soon as x1 becomes available...and the current price is only there for some warm up  |
masseur
Joined: Jan 03, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Sydney, London
PM |
well its certainly getting them some hits on their site now 
I used to get some of my phones from germany previously. there was an online shop called nowicom who often got phones a little earlier than most, I got my K700 from them for example, but they closed down about 2 years ago now
worth watching this one anyway and see what they do
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max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
PM, WWW
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On 2008-09-22 14:58:12, Boinng wrote:
Look, this doesn't have to be complex, it's a simple truth that the type of touchscreen you find on a WM device is inherently soft and flexible. It has to be - that's central to how they work. You can't put a solid glass screen on one, say, and expect the pressure sensitive layer underneath to detect where your stylus is - you have to use a softer material. And however stiff it might be, a softer plastic is always, always, going to be more prone to scratching from any number of objects it might come in contact with in its normal daily life. By definition it's a softer material than they'd put on the rest of the phone - have you never had a scratch on a phone?
of course I've had a scratch on a phone. however I don't put money or keys etc in the pocket my phone is in and I never place a phone down anywhere screen facing down. These just seem like commonsense things to do.
You are wrong about touchscreens needing to be soft and plastic. As I said, my xda mini has a glass screen. Without actually removing it, I think my ipaq is too. The samsung is quite hard also, though I'm pretty sure it's plastic. The things is, even glass has enough flex to accomodate the touch sensitivity of touchscreens. We are not talking the soft touchscreens of the early PPC's (before phones ppc's came along), the technology is much more effective now and soft screens aren't necessary.
I'm not sure what method smartphones use generally, but for clarity of image most probably use surface accoustic - this system relies on acoustical interference and not pressure - so panel flexibility is not necessary. I know I can activate a touchscreen even if I barely touch it, so I think it quite unlikely flexibility is a necessary part of non-capacitive touchscreens.
Can I ask which WM phones with "hard screens" you've used? Did you use them for a long time? I'm honestly struggling to think which phones you mean - the HTC Touch range is only a year or so old, and are the only WM phones I can think of with that slightly stiffer top layer. My Tytn II, which is only a year old, definitely does not have a "hard screen" - just a normal inset screen like the X1, P1, etc.
I do struggle with your description of any of these screens as "hard". They're not rigid, they're not solid, they flex - just as they're supposed to.
none of the WM phones I have on hand have soft screens. They are XDA II, XDA Mini (I just pulled it apart and it has a GLASS screen), iPaq HW6900 and the Samsung i780. (the XDA II was one of the very first PPC phones)
I had a HTC Dual earlier today, it's screen seemed in the same league as those above.
In all fairness to the screens on the W910 and N95 (two phones I'd never compare the X1 to anyway) neither are designed to be scribbled on with a stylus every day.
I agree, but I was only using the example that a touchscreen is often harder than non-touchscreens.
We're not talking about the flexing of the underlying LCD here anyway, we're talking about the flexing of the soft touch-sensitive layer on top. That's what differentiates phones like the X1 or P1 from the screen of the Ipod Touch or Iphone. It's that soft plastic layer that can easily become scratched and scuffed.
Well as I have said I don't find WM touchscreens to be soft at all. Not as hard as a really brittle polycarbonate granted, but not soft either. Therefore in no more danger of being scratched than a non-toucscreen (are people trying to use a touchscreen with 2 inch nails??) I don't get it because I've never found WM phones to be particularly prone to scratching and I don't think the X1 will be any worse than the XDA mini or my current i780.
You keep bringing up this apologist idea, it's not from anything I've said.
Sorry, maybe I over reacted. It just seems you perceive people who stick up for any aspect of X1 as doing it out of a fanboy love of SE. If I'm wrong I apologise. There are a lot of people here who do think that way sorry if I've confused you with anyone else.
Thanks to you, there's a poster here that's gone away happily believing that his X1 is going to have a hard screen like his Ipod Touch - that's quite wrong, and it's surprising to see you still defending it.
Whether it will be AS HARD as ipod touch, maybe not. But I'm just arguing that it's not going to be SOFT. However I guess the real answer to the guys question needs a direct comparison between the P1 and the X1. If you actually look at my question I never said the X1 WAS harder than the P1. I just said that WM screens are normally reasonably hard, and I stand by that comment.
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BIG-Stan
Joined: Sep 07, 2006
Posts: 134
From: Germany
PM |
I buy all my phones at handytick.de
MOst of the time they have the cheapest offers with contract and sometimes cheaper without contract than other places.
They are not always the first to get the phones but when the got them you can be sure that they dont have any branding and the delievery is very fast
[ This Message was edited by: BIG-Stan on 2008-09-22 14:55 ] |
anonymuser
Joined: Dec 17, 2002
Posts: > 500
PM |
On 2008-09-22 15:39:34, max_wedge wrote:
You are wrong about touchscreens needing to be soft and plastic. As I said, my xda mini has a glass screen. Without actually removing it, I think my ipaq is too. The samsung is quite hard also, though I'm pretty sure it's plastic. The things is, even glass has enough flex to accomodate the touch sensitivity of touchscreens. We are not talking the soft touchscreens of the early PPC's (before phones ppc's came along), the technology is much more effective now and soft screens aren't necessary.
I'm not sure what method smartphones use generally, but for clarity of image most probably use surface accoustic - this system relies on acoustical interference and not pressure - so panel flexibility is not necessary. I know I can activate a touchscreen even if I barely touch it, so I think it quite unlikely flexibility is a necessary part of non-capacitive touchscreens.
So you're saying none of the smartphone's you've used have a plastic touch-sensitive layer on top of the glass screen? They don't use a standard digitizer? That surprises me. Every touch sensitive smartphone I've seen has one, aside from the Iphone. Certainly my Tytn II does, and that's a pretty recent example of HTC WM hardware (with more than a passing similarity to the X1).
When you hold you XDA Mini up close and put pen to screen, you don't see any movement there at all? No flexing on the surface of the screen? Perhaps they used to build them better.
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max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
PM, WWW
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there is a little flexing but as I said it has a glass cover not plastic. Even glass has a degree of flexibility.
however, on my i780 and ipaq, I can activate the touchscreen without even pressing hard enough to flex the screen. I haven't tried the xdaII and the XDA mini is now in pieces  (it's water damaged and locks up frequently - not worth re-assembling)
I don't think the screen needs to be flexible to be touch sensitive. Or atleast not for surface accoustic touchscreens. Resistive touchscreens, cheaper but block more light, may explain touchscreens that have soft screens - these work by pushing two specially treated panels together and would need to have some flexibility.
Any really bright and clear screens I would've thought would use surface acoustic.
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WhyBe
Joined: Apr 02, 2008
Posts: > 500
From: Ohio, USA
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On 2008-09-22 14:09:35, plankgatan wrote:
does X1 support DNLA ???
does X1 support Xvid(DVix) movies ???
just curious....
im not bother to see the white paper
DLNA is not in the r3 white paper. It was in the r1 however. Perhaps SE bit off more than they could chew and ended up scaling back on some features to get the X1 ready by it's intended release date.
I'm hoping DLNA will be added in a future X1 firmware update though.
It doesn't say anything about Xvid in the white paper but I'm thinking that something like DVix is supported in software. So, IOW, it would be supported by way of third party software. |
anonymuser
Joined: Dec 17, 2002
Posts: > 500
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On 2008-09-22 16:18:03, max_wedge wrote:
there is a little flexing but as I said it has a glass cover not plastic. Even glass has a degree of flexibility.
I really doubt that. Glass so thin that it visibly flexes under a stylus could crack just as easily. Are you absolutely positive it's not a plastic top layer?
I don't think the screen needs to be flexible to be touch sensitive. Or atleast not for surface accoustic touchscreens. Resistive touchscreens, cheaper but block more light, may explain touchscreens that have soft screens - these work by pushing two specially treated panels together and would need to have some flexibility.
Any really bright and clear screens I would've thought would use surface acoustic.
I'll be honest with you, I'd never heard of surface acoustic until now, and I'm not 100% convinced that technology has ever been used in any smartphone. There's an easy article here explaining the common types of touchscreen including resistive and SAW - http://www.cbc.ca/news/backgr[....]how-it-works/touchscreens.html - you'll notice they mention the dominance of resistive in smartphones, PDAs and other areas where durability is needed, and note the sensitivity of Surface Acoustic to dust and liquids - probably not the best type of screen for a phone or PDA? They certainly don't suggest it is, or has ever been used as such.
Every phone I've seen, WM or otherwise, uses the resistive type. You can usually see the membrane quite easily close up, and the soft flexing of that top layer under the stylus. I'd be amazed if the X1 uses anything different, and I'd be interested to see any evidence of that whatsoever.
[ This Message was edited by: Boinng on 2008-09-22 15:44 ] | |
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Access the forum with a mobile phone via esato.mobi
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Posted: 2008-09-22 14:44
