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The Danish Mohammad cartoon row - what do you think? |
goldenface
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Liverpool City Centre
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@AXXXR You must not forget that these protesters, demonstrating so vehemently, by burning buildings etc, are a small minority of opinion. To react in a similar fashion, physically or otherwise is simply adding fuel to the flames.
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axxxr
Joined: Mar 21, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Londinium
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On 2006-02-09 08:43:56, goldenface wrote:
@AXXXR You must not forget that these protesters, demonstrating so vehemently, by burning buildings etc, are a small minority of opinion. To react in a similar fashion, physically or otherwise is simply adding fuel to the flames.
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Yes absolutely i agree they are a very small minority of people who cause the damage and is of course wrong...but like i have said before in this thread when normal people get angry we all do silly things...this case was'nt normal,..its never happened before apart from the time of the Salman Rushdi affair..
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absinthebri
Joined: Feb 11, 2004
Posts: 476
From: London, UK
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As I've said previously - we're not actually disagreeing here - we're having completely seperate conversations.
And there appears to be three fairly distinct camps: those of us who believe in an absolute right of free speech, those of us who do not believe in free speech and those of us who vermently defend their right to free speech when we have something to say (e.g. attacking Bush) but would like to deny others that same right.
Do you want to know my view of the cartoons?
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I don't have a view as I haven't seen them. I imagine I'd find them distasteful, if not offensive, so I choose not to view them but I'm glad I live in a society where I could view them if I choose to.
But what if I did view them? What if I found them clever and witty?
Should I have my house burned down?
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JK
Joined: Feb 24, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: S. Africa - JOZI
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The cartoon in question is not clever or witty! |
absinthebri
Joined: Feb 11, 2004
Posts: 476
From: London, UK
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On 2006-02-09 09:34:10, 786KBR wrote:
The cartoon in question is not clever or witty!
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*****Bangs head against wall*****
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JK
Joined: Feb 24, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: S. Africa - JOZI
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On 2006-02-09 09:35:30, absinthebri wrote:
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On 2006-02-09 09:34:10, 786KBR wrote:
The cartoon in question is not clever or witty!
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*****Bangs head against wall*****
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Dont hurt yourself now...
Ill be offended if you find it clever or witty! |
axxxr
Joined: Mar 21, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Londinium
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On 2006-02-09 09:19:31, absinthebri wrote:
As I've said previously - we're not actually disagreeing here - we're having completely seperate conversations.
And there appears to be three fairly distinct camps: those of us who believe in an absolute right of free speech, those of us who do not believe in free speech and those of us who vermently defend their right to free speech when we have something to say (e.g. attacking Bush) but would like to deny others that same right.
Do you want to know my view of the cartoons?
.
.
.
I don't have a view as I haven't seen them. I imagine I'd find them distasteful, if not offensive, so I choose not to view them but I'm glad I live in a society where I could view them if I choose to.
But what if I did view them? What if I found them clever and witty?
Should I have my house burned down?
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Lets get one things absolutely straight ok...I am firm believer in freedom of speech just as much as you or the next person is,..The people who know me and a few on esato know that i am a very liberal person and often allow others to get aways with things only because i am such a believer of freedom...But my point is that,their certain lines which one must never cross under any circumstance,freedom of speech does'nt mean you have a free ticket to go and do and say what ever you please!...its quite simple!
A lot of people have a problem with me on esato like you mentioned about me making anti-bush protests..I can't see why thats such a problem,as its purely a political matter which im addressing..not harming anyone am i?..since half the planet is against bush anyway...but my point here is that i am excersising my right of expression by saying what i think needs to be said but im not crossing that line in anyway...I will always stand up for freedoms of expression..but will never tolerate people defacing Islam or any other religion for that matter...Islam has enough bad publicity in this world that we now have to deal with some careless newspaper editor.
I am against the violence shown in recent days by some protesters and that was wrong,...indeed the extremists who burnt buildings ect should be punished but i think the biggest criminial is still the pictures,none of this had to have happened and was uneccessary.
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absinthebri
Joined: Feb 11, 2004
Posts: 476
From: London, UK
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On 2006-02-09 09:41:59, axxxr wrote:
Lets get one things absolutely straight ok...I am firm believer in freedom of speech just as much as you or the next person is,
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But you're NOT. You are deciding what can be said and what can't.
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..The people who know me and a few on esato know that i am a very liberal person and often allow others to get aways with things only because i am such a believer of freedom...But my point is that,their certain lines which one must never cross under any circumstance,freedom of speech does'nt mean you have a free ticket to go and do and say what ever you please!...its quite simple!
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It's quite simple - you either believe in free speech or you don't. Free speech is *precisely* the right to say what ever one pleases.
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A lot of people have a problem with me on esato like you mentioned about me making anti-bush protests..I can't see why thats such a problem,as its purely a political matter which im addressing..not harming anyone am i?
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No, neither are some cartoons.
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..since half the planet is against bush anyway...
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What has that got to do with your right to free speech?
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but my point here is that i am excersising my right of expression by saying what i think needs to be said but im not crossing that line in anyway...I will always stand up for freedoms of expression..
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Except when you disagree with the view expressed.
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but will never tolerate people defacing Islam or any other religion for that matter...Islam has enough bad publicity in this world that we now have to deal with some careless newspaper editor.
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There we have it; you concede you are not in favour of free speech.
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I am against the violence shown in recent days by some protesters and that was wrong,...indeed the extremists who burnt buildings ect should be punished but i think the biggest criminial is still the pictures,none of this had to have happened and was uneccessary.
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So drawing a cartoon is a bigger crime than murder?
I must live in a very strange reality...
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JK
Joined: Feb 24, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: S. Africa - JOZI
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On 2006-02-09 09:51:03, absinthebri wrote:
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A lot of people have a problem with me on esato like you mentioned about me making anti-bush protests..I can't see why thats such a problem,as its purely a political matter which im addressing..not harming anyone am i?
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No, neither are some cartoons.
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Yes they ARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  |
leeboy13
Joined: Sep 28, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: Brissle - dodgy accients
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why would anyone let a 'cartoon' cause so much fuss? rememeber everyone - its only a cartoon - not some world wide dictator ship - i feel its been blown way out of proportion....
theer are cartoons everyday in bristish papers mocking the british gov (and bush) and you dont us or the americans causeing a big stir about it.....
To hear people have died because of this cartoon makes me feel quite sickened really - and the people who killed etc... are the real problems here... not a cartoon...
why cant we compare this to ... lets say, the 'loose change dvd' - which totally underminds the us gov and the truth behind 9/11 - surly this is a 'dig' at the us gov and in some ways paints a 'false' picture of the gov (depending upon what you actually believe is true) - please lets not lose sight of teh topic here - i was only mentioning the 9/11 things as an example.
My view is that its only a cartoon.... if it were about anything that 'affected' me (which i would never let a cartoon get the better of my beliefs) i would simply brush it off - even laugh at its stupidity - not start killing or hating a certain country because of it..... |
goldenface
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Liverpool City Centre
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@leeboy. Whether it was a cartoon or not is irrelevant. Its the publication of the image of the prophet mohammed which has caused offence. There are various links in this thread explaining the issues involved. :-)
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whizkidd
Joined: May 14, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: India
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To be honest, when i saw the cartoon, i did find it funny.... But the interesting thing was, we all laughed at the cartoonists folly rather than the cartoon itself. So did my muslim friends (and i have many of them) who are liberal and sane enough to understand the "folly" behind such a crude satire. Imho, anyone who says the cartoonists deserve to face the consequences have a strange mentality. Does someone really think these cartoonist(s) would have published it had they known of such consequences?
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leeboy13
Joined: Sep 28, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: Brissle - dodgy accients
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i think its very relevant mate.... people dying over a cartoon? is this what the worlds come to? bit sad really.....
My understanding is that if you believe something (ie the muslim beliefs) then it is that person that should abide by their views not others.... We wouldnt make muslims (or anyother religion) follow say, the catholics way.....
What im saying it that if it was a muslim who wrote that cartoon - surely this would cause an uproar - someone who mocks what he/she believes in for the world to see..... but it wasnt, it was a danish paper... why let it bother you all? have it affected your faith in anyway? i very much doubt it if youre a a strong believer. |
JK
Joined: Feb 24, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: S. Africa - JOZI
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On 2006-02-09 11:22:00, whizkidd wrote:
To be honest, when i saw the cartoon, i did find it funny.... But the interesting thing was, we all laughed at the cartoonists folly rather than the cartoon itself. So did my muslim friends (and i have many of them) who are liberal and sane enough to understand the "folly" behind such a crude satire. Imho, anyone who says the cartoonists deserve to face the consequences have a strange mentality. Does someone really think these cartoonist(s) would have published it had they known of such consequences?
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Im ashamed to say that Im liberal but I too was offended!!!
Yes they knew its on one of the links! They might not have known the exact consequences but Im sure they knew there would be some sort of uproar! |
whizkidd
Joined: May 14, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: India
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I do not understand when someone says, muslims are "more" offended (than other faiths) when something about their faith is inappropriately mentioned. How come you know "how much" a christian or a hindu or a sikh or anyone for that matter is offended? I am as much offended as any muslim when someone mocks my religion or questions it. It is only because some elements of islam protests in a violent manner that makes think that muslims are more offended.
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Posted: 2006-02-09 08:43
