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New Sony Ericsson G Series |
Saka
Joined: Jan 21, 2004
Posts: 165
From: Sweden
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Ultimately I don't think lack of HSDPA in g-series will make much difference to SE chances in the market g series are aimed at. Their market expansion will continue with X1 and G series leading the fray in the high and mid range respectively. Anyone who explicitly needs HSDPA has limited choice with SE atm and will have to go elsewhere if what's available is not suitable. But this won't stop SE increasing marketshare. Despite the disadvantage of not having HSDPA, I predict G series will be a huge sales success, possibly on the same scale or better as the success of K750.
@max_wedge: What's this speculation about SE strategies and marketshare? Are you working for them? Frankly I don't give a shit about their profit or sales. I just want a Symbian phone with HSDPA, WiFi, GPS and possibly 5MP camera with flash. If they won't offer this in 2008 I will go somewhere else. And so will 1000's others. So much for their strategy.
It is more than clear that technical reasons are behind the decision to not include HSDPA, and NOT the strategic ones. Because it makes much, much more sense to include HSDPA in a smartphone than in a cybershot (K850). So all talk about some smart, incomprehensible strategy here is a bull...
For all those that don't need nor use HSDPA right now keep in mind this: it's not NOW we are talking about. These phones will be available in several months from now. Then the high initial price and insufficient deliveries due to high demand will hold you back from acquiring one for another few months. Then you are expected to use this phone for at least 2-3 years. Are you telling me that you know for sure you won't be needing HSDPA in 2010 or 2011?
[ This Message was edited by: Saka on 2008-02-17 03:13 ] | |
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max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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From: Australia
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dude, take a chill pill.
1st of all, strategy is tied to finances is tied to economic decisions about what hardware should be included and what hardware can be delayed without affecting marklet pentration too much. No phone oem can bring out all the latest hardware features in one phone, and certainly not in mid range handsets. Something has to be left out.
2nd just because YOU think HSDPA is the bees knees, doesn't mean the market as a whole will stop buying phones that don't have HSDPA.
3rd, no matter what phone you buy now, in 6 months there will be some new technology that will make you wish you had waited. There is no way to future proof a phone purchase for the next 6 months, let alone 3 years. If you think you are going to need a HSDPA phone, then buy one, no one is stopping you.
As I said before, for those that need HSDPA, you either like what SE have or you go elsewhere. There is no shame in that. If you want to go elsewhere do so, no one cares.
As to whether there will be so many who need HSDPA so desperately (and who aren't happy with a K850, W910 or X1) that they will go elsewhere and affect SE's marketshare drive, I disagree with you, and only the market will prove either of us wrong or right.
re: "Frankly I don't give a shit about their profit or sales" - well, SE give a shit about it, infact it's their whoile reason for existence.  And if SE deicded that they can survive without HSDPA in G series, then I'm sure they have good market based research to support that strategy.
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[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2008-02-17 03:41 ] |
Saka
Joined: Jan 21, 2004
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From: Sweden
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no matter what phone you buy now, in 6 months there will be some new technology that will make you wish you had waited.
I don't think I need to remind you that there are phones on the market with both Symbian, GPS, 5MP cam, WiFi and HSDPA right now, even DVB-H. Although little too big. If the only answer you (or SE) can give to us, so far faithfull SE fans is "go to them", then that's the worst move ever.
As to whether there will be so many who need HSDPA so desperately (and who aren't happy with a K850, W910 or X1) that they will go elsewhere and affect SE's marketshare drive, I disagree with you, and only the market will prove either of us wrong or right.
I agree. SE's market share is now, what, 9%? I guess you know what it used to be once (counting Ericsson).
And if SE deicded that they can survive without HSDPA in G series, then I'm sure they have good market based research to support that strategy.
Well, the above market share witness about amount of bad decisions they took. Not that this was a strategic decision at all, it was a pure technical one, as said.
[ This Message was edited by: Saka on 2008-02-17 03:59 ] |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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I don't think I need to remind you that there are phones on the market with both Symbian, GPS, 5MP cam, WiFi and HSDPA right now, even DVB-H. Although little too big. If the only answer you (or SE) can give to us, so far faithfull SE fans is "go to them", then that's the worst move ever.
Yes but of those phones you mentioned, most have no touchscreen So in one area atleast (in the post-iphone days remember) SE have a heads up on the industry leader. I think you will find the general public will get excited about the G series touch UI and won't even notice the lack of HSDPA 
btw, don't lump me with SE. I am no fanboy, I'm just a realist. I mean it when I say go to another manufacturer. Why bitch about something SE have decided to do? Utilise your power of demand and buy elsewhere. In the long run, if all the people you say will desert g-series, do so, then it will give SE a wake up call and they will sort the problem out.
That's how the free market works. No one takes it personally. Companies live or die based on how well they read the market. If people are loyal to a company no matter what, then how is the company supposed to read the market accurately? This is an example of how brand loyalty can actually weaken a company if too many buyers are buying only because of a name.
In the long run I think we will find the SE decision to leave out HSDPA won't significantly affect their market penetration with the G series.
I agree. SE's market share is now, what, 9%? I guess you know what it used to be once (counting Ericsson).
At Ericsson's exit from the mobile phone market, they were about 9%, Sony about 1%. In the first couple of years marketshare (of SE) dropped to 5.4%. But after a rough start they have steadily climbed back up and are continuing to grow. I think they have done alright considering that Ericsson was declining anyway (they were having supply issues affecting handset numbers and wanted to off load the mobile handset business).
Well, the above market share witness about amount of bad decisions they took. Not that this was a strategic decision at all, it was a pure technical one, as said.
Not really. All technical decisions are made based on the limited resources available, otherwise ALL phones would have the latest of everything (and life would be boring). SE have to decide if the market is is really prime for HSDPA or not before commiting resources to that arm of development. It's not a technical issue, ie: that SE can't make HSDPA phones, since they have made two already.
If no one uses much HSDPA between now and say 18months time, then the HSDPA inclusion will been have wasted on all but a small marketshare like yourself (I think when you calculate HSDPA useage, you must realise that only a small percentage of people with HSDPA phones actually utilse HSDPA speeds in their usage?)
Atleast I believe that's the line that SE have taken, since it would explain nicely why they have not bothered to put HSDPA in G series. This makes more sense than the idea that they simply didn't care about their customer. The fact is a company like SE who are actively seeking new marketshare, cannot afford to make decisions that aren't based on market research. I would sugges they have better access to market research than you or I about HSDPA and it's use? Therefore I conclude SE have a reason for their actions based on their belief about the status of HSDPA in the current (+6months) market.
Personally I find it ludicrous to presume that the G series will be a flop because it doesn't have HSDPA. Most of the world is still getting used to ubiquiteous 3G, let alone HSDPA.
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mode
Joined: Jan 12, 2007
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@max_wedge
I myself find it unlikely that the G-series will be a flop without HSDPA actually. But I don't think putting HSDPA in a cam phone and a walkman phone instead of SE's business smartphone models up to now is a marketing strategy. A good marketing strategy is incorporating the best technologies to the target group that would benefit most out of it. HSDPA is data technology, data technology is the lifeline of communication and communication is the name of SE's business. How can they brand a cutting edge data technology as "not yet viable" if they expect to be leaders in communication? HSDPA is too futuristic? Too ahead of its time? Too niche a market? C'mon we all know that to be highly unlikely, if it's not viable yet then it shouldn't be in any of SE's phones right now. The problem is technical which is UIQ and they're just not doing as much as they should. They happened to throw in WM and whaddaya know, the ever illusive HSDPA is now in a smartphone. Oh, btw it's also in a non-UIQ camphone (WTF?) and walkman phone (WTFF?). Go figure.
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JAGUY85
Joined: Oct 17, 2003
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I want a G900 as upgrade to my P1. That's all I will say here.
My  History: T310.K700>K750>W810>K800>W850>K800>K810>P1>X10a>? S. B. R. Jr. |
_LAU_
Joined: Sep 10, 2004
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This is medium range phone.
They must have made market analisys, and I'm sure that medium range users are not HSDPA heavy users. Worst, I believe most don't even know what it means and if it is being used on their phones.
You internet-on-the-move addicts are fussing about a phone that was not buit for you! So why do you care if HSDPA is built in?
Wait for the P5. That's YOUR phone. |
Saka
Joined: Jan 21, 2004
Posts: 165
From: Sweden
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Yes but of those phones you mentioned, most have no touchscreen So in one area atleast (in the post-iphone days remember) SE have a heads up on the industry leader. I think you will find the general public will get excited about the G series touch UI and won't even notice the lack of HSDPA
I never said G series will be a flop. On the contrary, there will be a high demand. But I highly doubt the absence of HSDPA will go unnoticed.
All I'm saying that they should have offered a phone just like this (G1000?) WITH HSDPA. Then it would be a new Nokia killer. This way it's just almost, but not quite...
So why do you care if HSDPA is built in?
Wait for the P5. That's YOUR phone.
I don't think so, what lots of customers want is a true k800/k850 successor, a candybar smartphone with WiFi, good camera, HSDPA and GPS. Touchscreen, even better. Now I think most of such customers can live without 16M colours LCD and without integrated GPS but the absense of HSDPA will hold us back... |
mode
Joined: Jan 12, 2007
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On 2008-02-17 12:12:58, _LAU_ wrote:
This is medium range phone.
They must have made market analisys, and I'm sure that medium range users are not HSDPA heavy users. Worst, I believe most don't even know what it means and if it is being used on their phones.
Ok, point taken, but can you explain why HSDPA has not been in the last 5 UIQ smartphone models (G-series not included of course) but was important enough to be available for camera and music enthusiasts who are in this group you call 3G/HSDPA illiterate?
You internet-on-the-move addicts are fussing about a phone that was not buit for you! So why do you care if HSDPA is built in?
Wait for the P5. That's YOUR phone.
It's probably not going to be MY phone if it is built on UIQ3 because SE's just too lazy/uninterested to develop the platform further to support HSDPA and a kaleidoscope of other technologies after developing it since mid 2005. And since P5 has not been announced yet, after almost 2 years of waiting for an SE HSDPA business phone, I probably have to wait for another year (hypothetically speaking, of course there's no reason to wait for it if it takes that long)? So much for "a leader in mobile communications"
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apolloa
Joined: Jul 27, 2005
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@mode, why have you contradicted yourself in the same post? You say the P5i is not your phone but you'll have to wait for it as a HSDPA SE business phone? Get an X1 then!
@saka, glad to see again your talking about the market as though you know exactly what thousands of SE users want. To be honest their probably aren't thousands of users that care less what brand their phone is. And will you please stop going on about the G series as a business phone. It's not, SE have said it's not. So please note the G series is NOT aimed as business users, it's a multimedia device for everyday people.
Everything you said you wanted has already been announced in the X1. SE like to make and aim specific models at specific markets, if you don't like that then tough, get a Nokia cause I doubt very much SE will be changing any time soon. The G900 is for people like me, I couldn't care less about the business side, about weather it has HSDPA, I want a smaller phone then my P1i that's faster and cheaper, I don't want a P1i business orientated device, so I want a G900. If was a business user I would get an X1 as that is aimed at business users. I really don't see the point in TV tuners in a phone but hey if that's what others want fine, their are phones specifically designed for this and it's the same with the G900 and the X1, specific phones for specific users and their needs. |
Saka
Joined: Jan 21, 2004
Posts: 165
From: Sweden
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And will you please stop going on about the G series as a business phone. It's not, SE have said it's not. So please note the G series is NOT aimed as business users, it's a multimedia device for everyday people.
Neither is K850, yet it has HSDPA. I never said G series are business aimed, yet it should have HSDPA, just as K850 and other c-s devices have.
And please stop with lame answers like get a X1 (a useless windoze brick with 65k colours!) or get a Nokia bull... (another brick btw).
[ This Message was edited by: Saka on 2008-02-17 19:46 ] |
leibniz
Joined: Mar 04, 2003
Posts: 102
From: Western Canada
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There are 375 cell phone descriptions/reviews etc. on this site, and I counted 71 Sony Ericssons.
Given the already-mentioned idea that not ALL phones will have EVERY option, why can't we simply enjoy the technology without bickering about what SE should or shouldn't be doing with it's new model phones.
I am still looking for the perfect phone, and it looks like the G900 is it.
Everyone has their unique requirements and every country/market has their own level if technological infrastructure and at different costs.
There is no way to support the idea that what is good for one person is good for a different person.
What makes me so happy about the G900 is that there is only 1 negative thing about it, and that's the lack of HSCSD / HSDPA. However, my personal interest is to NOT be dependent on the internet, let alone a high speed connection - I want as much as possible on on the phone itself. Therefore the high speed circuit connection doesn't matter much to me, whatever my ISP would charge for it.
Therefore, it's the perfect phone for me. No negatives. As soon [as it's for sale and] it's price drops to below $400 or so, I'm going to get at least one of them.
[ This Message was edited by: leibniz on 2008-02-17 20:34 ] |
ares
Joined: Dec 11, 2003
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From: Coimbra, Portugal
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I also think it would be nice to have completly direct equivalent to k850 in the g series with hsdpa...however these first g series are to be sold cheaper than the k850. I imagine the next devices on the series will have those features, but also be of a higher segment
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MG7
Joined: Feb 06, 2004
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The bare platform is from 2005. I am not talking about addons |
Saka
Joined: Jan 21, 2004
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What makes me so happy about the G900 is that there is only 1 negative thing about it, and that's the lack of HSCSD / HSDPA.
Actually there are many more negatives. I mentioned 4 (in the order of importance):
- No Turbo-3G (HSDPA)
- No GPS (built-in, no accessories)
- No 16M colours display
- No Xenon flash
Now I can live with latter 3, but it's gonna be hard without HSDPA in 2009. If you can live with(out) all 4 great for you.
however these first g series are to be sold cheaper than the k850
I wish that would be true but I seriously doubt that.
[ This Message was edited by: Saka on 2008-02-17 20:41 ] | |
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Posted: 2008-02-17 04:04
History: T310.K700>K750>W810>K800>W850>K800>K810>P1>X10a>?
