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The Smokers Thread |
Nanu
Joined: Feb 18, 2006
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From: Warrington, UK
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On 2007-07-19 10:45:18, batesie wrote:
all good points but all of this is sadly ignored.
house of commons bar. you can still smoke there.
but most non smokers wouldnt care about that anyway!!!
Wasn't it on the news last week that it has also been banned? 
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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On 2007-07-17 19:43:41, mweb6161 wrote:
Maybe they are not accomodating smokers to ANY degree scots, this is ultimatly a health issue NOT a matter of personal liberties.
Allowing you lot to puff yourselves to death in some dank, fog ridden little room is not going to relieve the pressure on the NHS or the damage you cause to yourselves in the long term.
Heres my crumb of comfort though, seeing as smokers pay so much in tax i believe you all ought to get anti-smoking remedies FREE on prescription or free psychiatric counselling for those dumb enough NOT to want to give it up  .
I disagree. Fatty foods are a health risk and they put strain on the NHS through people developing heart disease and so on. We don't ban fatty foods do we? Alcohol is a health risk as it can cause liver damage, again putting strain on the NHS. Alcohol is allowed to be consumed. Cars are a health risk since they emit pollution and have the potential to kill or seriously injure should there be an accident. That puts pressure on the NHS and we don't ban cars. Too much salt in food can be a health risk, but we don't regulate the amount of salt people are allowed to put in their meals.
There are lots of things that can harm us, but are we to regulate and ban them all? I say no! We are individuals capable of reasoning for ourselves. I'm not going to tell someone who likes skydiving he can't do it because there is a risk he might be killed or injured, it's his personal choice if he knows the risks involved.
Smoking has the potential to damage the health of others and I take that on board. If we had dedicated smoking clubs or rooms then people would be aware of the risks involved and they could choose to work in or attend such places themselves. The government should not be telling us how to live our lives.
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"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2007-07-20 04:09 ] |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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On 2007-07-18 14:58:21, Adz21 wrote:
end of the day smoke DOES damage your health and everyone else around you and as a none smoker ( i used to smoke ) i have the right to go out drinking and not come home stinking of smoke and have it damage my health at the same time.
Of course you have that right, just as I have the right to go out and socialise and smoke (a right which I am currently being denied). Allow dedicated smoking clubs/rooms and the problem is solved. If you want to work in such a place you will know the risks and can make the choice to do so or not. Equally if you wish to attend one you will know the risks and can make the choice yourself.
It is a filthy habit and most smokers agree with that.
Personally I don't agree with that.  I enjoy a cigar after a nice meal and it rounds the meal of wonderfully. I enjoy the ritual of cutting and lighting the cigar. I enjoy matching cigars with drinks to enhance the flavour of each. I enjoy the relaxation it brings to me. I also enjoy collecting cigars and comparing them.
I also smoke a pipe (yes I do behave like an old geezer) and again I find it most relaxing. I used to live in the country and one of my favourite past times was to take the dog for a walk in the hills behind the house, find a nice spot to park myself down and enjoy a quiet and relaxing smoke, whilst appreciating the stunning scenery that surrounded me (it also deterred midges!). You can see pictures here (including a picture of the dog, her name is Meg, and one of my pipes) here, here, here, and here. I enjoy the ritual of filling and packing my pipe; the lighting and the quiet contentment that brings to me.
the choice to smoke has not been taken away from you its just you cant do it where ever you want now. Its catch 22 its your choice to smoke and its mine not to.
What that amounts to is the will of the majority forcing itself upon the will of the minority. I am all for respecting democratic decisions, but at the same time we should also strive to respect the wishes and rights of the minority where possible and there is a possible way of doing so in this case; namely smoking clubs/establishments.
_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2007-07-20 04:05 ] |
Evilchap
Joined: Aug 25, 2006
Posts: 57
From: New Zealand
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@scotsboyuk - nicely put. Theres is nothing wrong with a nice cigar. People forget the importance of ritual in ones life. |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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Hear hear! Huzzah, pip pip, razzle razzle and all that! Up the cigars!
Whilst I'm here I think I shall have a jolly good pop at something that is rather annoying. I imagine most smokers will have encountered the wavy hand brigade at some point. Rather than simply ask you if you mind not smoking or saying that they have a problem with it the wavy hand brigade will wave their hands in front of their faces whilst contorting their faces as if they were taking part in a gurning competition. What is even more remarkable is that they will make these gestures even if one has just lit one's cigar or pipe or cigarette and they are sitting at the other side of a large room; one imagines they must have the olfactory capability of a bloodhound!
Why exactly do people do this? Why do they not just ask one if one would mind not smoking? Do they think that the more melodramatic they become the greater the chance that the offending tobacco product will somehow extinguish itself? Do they perhaps think that engaging in theatrics so over acted that they make William Shatner look like Sir Laurence Olivier that they will somehow draw sympathy from the room and the awful smoker will repent his foul ways and immediately summon an ashtray to put the cigar to rest?
If someone asks you why you smoke a good answer would be because it allows you to cope with non-smokers!
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"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2007-07-20 14:59 ] |
MWEB
Joined: Feb 13, 2005
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From: somewhere nicer than you
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Amongst all that huff and bluster you make some valid points Scots . however NO-ONE is saying you CANNOT smoke, what is being done are measures that will ensure that YOUR choice of pleasurable pastime does not impinge upon others who do not quite share your delight in inhaling noxious fumes or having their lifespan potentialy shortened by proxy!!.
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batesie
Joined: Feb 13, 2004
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From: London, UK
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there was a story in the paper where a woman that smokes now has to go outside on her own when out with her non smoking friends, who didnt have a problem with her smoking before. now she gets separated and is surrounded by strangers outside. the poor womans saftey is at risk especially in certain areas...
[addsig] |
masseur
Joined: Jan 03, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Sydney, London
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but she still chooses to smoke rather than be safe?
I have to admit that I've been a member of the wavy hand brigade on occassion, but only when smoke was directly coming to me. trouble is that I'm a smoke magnet and even if I move the smoke alwayscame to me!
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batesie
Joined: Feb 13, 2004
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From: London, UK
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she could do but should we all do things when forced to by the government?
[addsig] |
masseur
Joined: Jan 03, 2003
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From: Sydney, London
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I guess it was a rhetorical question, but from what you have written it sounds like that story was trying to push the fact that she was now in danger because she is a smoker, which seems ludicrous when she still has a choice not to put herself at risk, although the fact that she is smoking she is already at risk
are a bunch of strangers all sharing a common cause (i.e. smoking outside) really going to present a danger?
and can't the friends go outside with her if she is at risk? they should if they are her friends!
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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Oh good a few points to respond to here (note the word 'few' means that I am about pontificate. Go get a drink, a snack maybe, perhaps a smoke if you are so inclined and settle down).
@mweb
My right to smoke is being impinged because I am being restricted unnecessarily. As I have suggested before, why not allow dedicated smoking establishments? If people choose to work in them or visit them then that is their choice. No non-smoker will be forced to attend them so they will not have to breathe second hand smoke. Why impose a draconian law upon everyone despite the fact that a suitable compromise exists?
I can't enjoy a cigar after a meal, which partly ruins the meal for me. I enjoy food a great deal, and I enjoy the rituals surrounding food and fine dining. I enjoy dressing for dinner; I enjoy using obscure cutlery to scrape meat from a crab's knee joints; I enjoy discussing my wine selection with the sommelier; I enjoy ordering exotic dishes; I enjoy a glass of port with my cheese; I enjoy toasting the health of Her Majesty the Queen; I enjoy relaxing after the meal, and I jolly well enjoy puffing on a large Churchill as I relax!
What do I do now? Sometimes, and this may shock you, I simply skip brandy altogether! Yes that's right I simply don't bother with a brandy after dinner! I'm sorry if that offends anyone's sensibilities, but without a cigar what is the point in sipping a fine cognac after a meal? It's just not done! Does the government care? Apparently not! When I do have a brandy in a restaurant my hand aches for the feel of a mighty Bolivar and my lips cry out for the sweet caress of a firm Romeo Y Julieta. If I want to enjoy that part of the meal I have to dash off home and break out the brandy and cigars at home. So whilst non-smokers can smile, giggle, wave, take in great lung bucket fulls of clean air, and waffle endlessly about how mountain clear the air is as they sit back, unfasten their smoke free belts, and relax after their meal whilst still in the restaurant I, and other smokers, either have to carry our drinks out into the street like whinos or scarper back to our 'smoke filled dens' just to conclude our evening!
I was in London recently, just before the ban came into force in England, and I dined at my father's club. What a delight to be able to smoke in the restaurant! The cigar waiter brought the selection over and it was such a pleasure to once more experience that archaic and empowering ritual of selecting one's Havana from the humidor and, after it has been cut (I do prefer a hole myself (oooer!)) and lit by the waiter, to have it sitting gracefully in its ashtray at my side softly warming until I can remove the band without damaging the body (a Briton should never leave the band on, it's showing off and crass); never demanding, but always commanding respect and appreciation as a fine example of a well made cigar rolled on the thighs of a Cuban peasant woman that imparts untold pleasure. Even when it's life is near its end it still imparts joy as one can then take part in the ritual of allowing one's cigar to die with dignity; one never murders a cigar, rather one simply allows it to fade gently out of existence, the cigar happy in the knowledge that it has performed its function, and performed it well.
It was a disgrace that I had to cross the border to experience that simple pleasure! Of course now I can't in England either! Good on the club owner though, he's planning a roof top smoking terrace.
The rights of non-smokers are impinging on my right to smoke. I don't want to impose my smoking on others, I would settle for a separate room or a dedicated establishment. Is that too much to ask? For the governing bodies of the UK apparently it is! This country is being ruined by interfering do-gooders who should jolly well mind their own business. It's utter nonsense of the highest possible degree! Yet another intrusive poke into our lives from this government. The sooner they are booted out the better in my opinion. We don't need to be told how to run our lives by the government or by bureaucrats, we are capable of doing that ourselves thank you very much!
Another point to make is that one can't smoke in one's own home if there is a council official there who objects! In one's own home! It's madness! Utter madness! Goodness knows how we got into this bally nonsense, but someone has to stand up and put a stop to it! When Churchill was invited to lunch with the King of Saudi Arabia he was told that alcohol and smoking would not be permitted at the lunch, to which Churchill replied "I must point out that my rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after, and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them." Huzzah and double huzzah I say! That's the sort of attitude we need more of these days!
_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2007-07-20 17:57 ] |
mosdelln
Joined: Aug 08, 2006
Posts: 383
From: Northampton, UK
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@ Scotsboyuk
Why dont you write a whole page about you and your pipe 
I smoke only at the weekends when i am drinking apart from that i do not smoke.
During the week i dont find cigarettes all that appealing!
mosdelln (+17, -1) [e]
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MWEB
Joined: Feb 13, 2005
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From: somewhere nicer than you
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Nice story Scots, If they ever want to do a remake of "upstairs downstairs" i will point them in your direction .
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chrisfirst
Joined: Nov 20, 2003
Posts: 266
From: London
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This guy is a hero:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lancashire/6908530.stm
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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@mweb
I've stayed in the building next to the one that was used for Upstairs Downstairs.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC | |
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Posted: 2007-07-19 10:46
