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so who is religous here? |
Sammy_boy
Joined: Mar 31, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Staffordshire, United Kingdom
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@axxxr - I agree, and being in a position of absolute power corrupts absolutely - look at 'Dubya' Bush! Also the idea of just one world faith is certainly appealing - no more wars fought in the name of religion!
@Mohammed - Unfortunately people in religion seem to have too much power and influence for us to be able to get rid of them or 'retire' them, but I wish that we could, so we could be spiritual without some diktat saying we can't use condoms, or eat a certain meat, or do this on a certain day.....
"All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke
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batesie
Joined: Feb 13, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: London, UK
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religion is stoking the fire between country. bush gives some boll#k$ about god being on americas side, and these people fighting the west are filled with hate, fuelled by a belief of what there doing is right because a book says so. but bush is the biggest threat to world peace, power junkie trying to finish what his old man started.
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gelfen
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Melbourne, Australia
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"the big bang" is currently the most popular theory regarding the beginning of the universe - in it's simplest form the bbt (big bang theory) states that everything sprung from nothing in a big bang. some of the evidence for the bbt involves measurements taken of the relative positions and velocities of stars, indicating that the universe (or at least our part of it) is continually expanding and that galaxies are still being blown out of the "centre" (centre being a relative term given there are a few theories based on the universe being shaped like the surface of a toroid - or doughnut). apparently current measurements indicate that the rate of expansion of the universe is slowing and it has been postulated that once the expansion stops the universe will begin contracting under its own gravity, essentially reversing the cycle and ending in a "big crunch".
while i don't necessarily believe that an individual being caused the universe to pop into existence, i do believe something made it happen. i choose to keep an open mind about exactly what.
with respect to the creation stories, it is a widely held philosophy that they are metaphors used to simplify the story so that the uneducated, superstitious and generally more primitive masses would be able to understand where everything came from (and in no small way a handy excuse for varioius religious bodies do demand levies or "donations" since hey, God made everything so how about giving some of it back?). besides, if God in his infinite wisdom did decide to reveal to the hebrews how they came to exist on this world, do you think that they would have been able to comprehend the sublte complexities, dichotomies and downright bloody hard mathematics of quantum mechanics, super-string theory, and plasma physics? most people today don't understand it, so what did hope they have?
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Gee, does that beat me? I only got two pair - two aces, and another two.
[ This Message was edited by: gelfen on 2004-04-18 07:15 ] |
shibumi
Joined: Feb 19, 2004
Posts: 27
From: Philippines
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A very educated answer... Why do u exist then?
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Pitta Baainens
Joined: Aug 17, 2003
Posts: 80
From: Belgium
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I'm a Sabboan... It's a sekt 4 non believers (like me)made by me...
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boto43
Joined: Nov 23, 2003
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From: Trnava-Nitra,Pardubice CSSR
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I'm not a religious man though my wife is a daughter of evangelical priest or maybe that's the reason.  |
gelfen
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
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From: Melbourne, Australia
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Quote:
| On 2004-04-18 08:37:47, rowenacruzcarlos wrote:
A very educated answer... Why do u exist then? |
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i exist merely to cause irritation to others - much like the grit in an oyster creating pearls
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Gee, does that beat me? I only got two pair - two aces, and another two.
[ This Message was edited by: gelfen on 2004-04-19 01:29 ] |
pachy
Joined: Nov 05, 2002
Posts: > 500
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I think religous beliefs are meant to be salvation for the soul, not to be confused with the science of our physical creation, Darwin pretty much sorted it all out with his (now widely accepted) "Theory of Evolution" & the idea of natural selection.
In short, i have no respect for the church & i think all religion is total B***ocks.
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Sir-SonyEricsson-man
Joined: May 30, 2002
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From: Norway
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Quote:
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On 2004-04-13 22:16:40, masseur wrote:
my problem with religion (and I am a roman catholic btw) is that I am too pragmatic and need proof for everything before I believe. Unfortunately religion requires faith and though I have done catachism etc I still need that proof.
the big bang theory only relates to the state of the universe at any given time and indeed scientists believe there have been many 'big bangs' as the universe expands and contracts continually, and if that is true, and taking into account the conservation of energy laws, how many times has it occurred?
my problem comes in imagining what there was before there was anything, i.e. just a god, and I think we can go crazy trying to imagine what that might be
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I agree with you there... I'm a person who is very materialistic.. I know thats a bad thing. But i always feel that i have to have it correct, and thats a big problem for me.. I still think the most off the poeple around me don't like me  difficult to explain.. but thats the truth. example off that is the life i had as a small boy, often moving around, cursed that i never could make friendship with them around med, wich again made that a today have it not easy to make friends..
I often praied to gud and i feel that it had no work.. SO today i don't believe in that crap anymore..
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[ This Message was edited by: Sonyericsson-man on 2004-04-19 01:59 ] |
gelfen
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Melbourne, Australia
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actually most of the creation stories were intended to explain the origin of life and the earth, but in simplistic terms so that people would understand them. if you look at the Christian creation story, the "Seven Days" pretty much align with the stages of the earth's development. all that is required is to look at "days" as "ages" or "periods of time", and not all necessarily of equal length (interestingly, there is a bit of evidence around to suggest that the earth's rotation has slowed with time) but which correspond to stages of planetary development:
Day 1 - God created the heaven and the earth, and night and day, or the cosmos, including galaxies, stars (e.g. the sun) and planets
Day 2 - God created the sky, or the earth began to cool and the atmosphere (albeit toxic and without oxygen) formed.
Day 3 - God created land to separate the waters, or the molten (liquid) surface of the earth cooled and solidified, and water condensed from the atmosphere allowing for the development of plant life (very primitive anaerobic algae)
Day 4 - God created the sun and the moon, or the atmosphere began changing so the sun and moon were actually visible from earth, and oxygen was formed, which led to....
Day 5 - God created fish and birds, or the development of life on earth (inlcuding more luscious plant varieties) starting from the most primitive single celled organism, through to oceanic and amphibious life, (and primitive reptiles which evolved into birds)...and finally
Day 6 - God created the other animals, Adam and Eve, or the development of mammalian life, culminating in the evolution of the human species.
Day 7 - God rests, creating the Sabbath, or it's all done so off you go and live on this big blue rock, and we try to answer all our questions about the previous 6 days (you know, the bits we weren't there to see).
it's interesting to note that in geological terms, each "day" was shorter than the one preceding it. as for evolution, well creation doesn't preclude evolution - it just summarizes it for the scientifically impaired. evolution (so far) always fails to answer one very simple question: what started it all in the first place?
something had to make it all happen "in the beggining". the what, how and why are yet to be answered definitively.
as an aside, here is a joke i find apt for people who complain about God not answering their prayers. every single person has the ability to improve their lot in life, it's just a question of taking the opportunities presented (or even just working bloody hard) 
The Big Flood
It had been raining for days and days, and a terrible flood had come over the land. The waters rose so high that one man was forced to climb onto the roof of his house.
As the waters rose higher and higher, a man in a rowboat appeared, and told him to get in. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the man in the rowboat went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.
The waters rose higher and higher, and suddenly a speedboat appeared. "Climb in!" shouted a man in the boat. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the man in the speedboat went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.
The waters continued to rise. A helicopter appeared and over the loudspeaker, the pilot announced he would lower a rope to the man on the roof. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the helicopter went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.
The waters rose higher and higher, and eventually they rose so high that the man on the roof was washed away, and alas, the poor man drowned.
Upon arriving in heaven, the man marched straight over to God. "Heavenly Father," he said, "I had faith in you, I prayed to you to save me, and yet you did nothing. Why?" God gave him a puzzled look, and replied "I sent you two boats and a helicopter, what more did you expect?"
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Gee, does that beat me? I only got two pair - two aces, and another two.
[ This Message was edited by: gelfen on 2004-04-19 03:00 ] |
Sir-SonyEricsson-man
Joined: May 30, 2002
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From: Norway
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batesie
Joined: Feb 13, 2004
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From: London, UK
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yes and no... yes in a SE way. no in a 'i must do what this book tells me etc etc'....
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Mohammed98221
Joined: Feb 23, 2004
Posts: 15
From: UK
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@gelfen.i'm sorry but what u said about d seven day theory could be or meant to be is a load of crap.u can't just translate it like that,its totally baseless.believing in a creator that created everything is one thing,believing in a religious story about it is another.this is what i think of religion-it has either been created by a very clever person or a stupid god.
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gelfen
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Melbourne, Australia
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i never claimed to believe in a "religious story". if you actually read my post you would see that said:
something had to make it all happen "in the beggining". the what, how and why are yet to be answered definitively.
you have completely missed the point. IT'S A BLOODY METAPHOR!!!
i wasn't trying to justify religion or God, merely that some creation myths aren't as far off-base as people try to make out. that means either the person who wrote them made a very lucky guess, or he knew what he was on about and was trying to simplify things (a lot) for a population too primitive to grasp the complex details: "I can't explain this in terms you would understand so let's just call it the mystic power of God for the time being, until you get a lot smarter."
you might think it's baseless, but i don't believe in coincidences.
"this is what i think of religion-it has either been created by a very clever person or a stupid god."
if you mean religion was created by smart person or stupid god, then i have two points. firstly, it doesn't require a smart person to found a religion (David Koresh, step forward please). secondly, if it's a stupid god then religion has instant credibility - being the worship of said god after all.
however, if you meant the world/galaxy/universe then i'm not arguing (except perhaps about the stupid part) because whatever "creator" put all this together needed to have a very profound understanding of the way things work. if you want to argue over the imperfections found in the world, an awful lot of them can be traced back to the "imperfection of man". many religions offer up some devil-type figure as the cause of all the world's evils, but again i consider that a metaphor for basic human stupidity coupled with the randomness of nature (and a tendency for us to blame anyone but ourselves).
i choose to believe that life has a purpose, which is not the same as saying that every individual has a purpose (although i'm open to argument on that too). part of the purpose of life may be to overcome our innate imperfecion and the random curve-balls thrown by mother nature. or it may be we've loused up our purpose so much that we are susceptible to these problems. either way, it makes no difference to the fact that something caused everything to come into being.
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Gee, does that beat me? I only got two pair - two aces, and another two.
[ This Message was edited by: gelfen on 2004-04-27 02:17 ] |
haynesycop
Joined: Mar 10, 2004
Posts: > 500
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lol well i aint religious at all....i suppose there could be something out there but i dont know what..........ALIENS mayb lol | |
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Posted: 2004-04-14 11:03
