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Photos Shootout voting system |
Ricky D
Joined: Feb 05, 2007
Posts: > 500
From: UK (living in Beijing)
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@thesun, I admire your valiant defence of your proposed system over others, and that this conversation hasn't dropped to the levels that the rumours thread drops after the slightest misunderstanding, however, for the current number of photos and voters we have (repeatedly less than 30) and the structure of the competition (one winner, with no prizes for second or third place), the only option that really makes sense is the one vote system.
Your main point for arguing a 3-2-1 system is that it is less open to voting for lesser photos correct? I argue that in fact, little difference is made and IF any difference is made it is to the opposite of what would be desired, which we can all agree is the best photo wins. The reason very little difference is made is that dishonest voters will still vote dishonestly, but crucially, they will have stronger votes (3 votes instead of 1).
I honestly don't see much evidence of fixed voting, I always vote honestly for what I think is the best and 9 times out of 10 most people agree (or at least I can see why the winning photo won).
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thesun
Joined: Sep 02, 2009
Posts: 215
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On 2013-07-02 15:15:14, Marly wrote:
So you mean, when I only vote for one picture, this gets one point, but when someone else votes for three pics, his second choice gets two points, i.e. his second choice gets more points, than the photo I voted best? So to give the maximum amount of points to the pic of which I think, it's the best, I'm more or less forced to vote for three pics? Let me put this straight: nobody, on any internet-site can force me to do anything, either I vote once, or I don't vote at all.
So far for promoting this competition......
correct.
ur chosen pic will advance at 1 pt more than other pic.
well that is your choice.
the reason of this voting system is that it require more majority effort for selecting the best picture of all.
its not about selecting the second or third place winner.
On 2013-07-02 16:57:59, Ricky D wrote:
@thesun, I admire your valiant defence of your proposed system over others, and that this conversation hasn't dropped to the levels that the rumours thread drops after the slightest misunderstanding, however, for the current number of photos and voters we have (repeatedly less than 30) and the structure of the competition (one winner, with no prizes for second or third place), the only option that really makes sense is the one vote system.
Your main point for arguing a 3-2-1 system is that it is less open to voting for lesser photos correct? I argue that in fact, little difference is made and IF any difference is made it is to the opposite of what would be desired, which we can all agree is the best photo wins. The reason very little difference is made is that dishonest voters will still vote dishonestly, but crucially, they will have stronger votes (3 votes instead of 1).
I honestly don't see much evidence of fixed voting, I always vote honestly for what I think is the best and 9 times out of 10 most people agree (or at least I can see why the winning photo won).
then you should not be worried about my voting system. I am not trying to cheat the voting, in fact, improvising it to find the real winner. If the picture is great, no doubt it will win in my suggested system.
[ This Message was edited by: thesun on 2013-07-02 18:12 ] http://www.flickr.com/groups/c901/ |
hihihans
Joined: Mar 15, 2009
Posts: > 500
From: Netherlands
PM |
I see we have two systems in favor now.
•1 vote 1 point
•3 votes 3-2-1 points
If we do the 3-2-1 system I would like to give the option of voting for 1 or 2 photos. These votes would give 3 and 2 points. Giving only 1 point is crazy if a "worse" pic gets 2 points from someone else who agrees with you.
Valse voting has always been here but as long as a good photo wins nobody really cares.
I had a friend here who voted 3 months in a row for me, I would have send him a pm to stop if he did it in the fourth month also. I like to get votes but not because we had a nice chat.
I never really noticed someone voting for a "bad" photo in order to come out better themself.
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etaab
Joined: Jan 23, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: UK - South Yorkshire
PM |
I agree with keeping it as it is. Theres nothing wrong with the voting system at all imo.
I only have a beef with some of the images submitted sometimes. Mainly regarding images which have no effort put into them and get more votes than other people who take time, planning and real effort into their entries.
That in itself does more damage to the competition in regards to people not wanting to participate when their well thought out intelligent efforts get little or no votes and a picture which took no thought or effort either gets lots of votes or even wins.
I vote keep it as it is.
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Marly
Joined: Jun 04, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: Netherlands
PM |
On 2013-07-02 20:22:00, hihihans wrote:
I never really noticed someone voting for a "bad" photo in order to come out better themself.
I haven't seen this either, tbh.
@thesun, are you sure, people have been cheating by voting for a photo they consider "bad"?
Maybe you think it's a "bad" picture, but they liked it for some reason (composition, subject, colour)? Not everybody has the same taste, which is a good thing 
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hihihans
Joined: Mar 15, 2009
Posts: > 500
From: Netherlands
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Art is a strange thing. We are discussing the voting system to get a more balaced winning photo. There will always be someone that thinks the winning photo is crap.
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etaab
Joined: Jan 23, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: UK - South Yorkshire
PM |
Its not so much about the winning, rather that some people don't get votes which they otherwise would deserve. That's the only fault with the voting but theres no way to police it.
I remember last year there was one particular month where the winning photo in most peoples opinions was average to poor. But what mattered most was that some of the entrants were quite disappointed they didn't get a single vote. Which was surprising because some were really good images.
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mlife
Joined: Jan 16, 2003
Posts: > 500
PM |
@thesun
So if I don't like three of the images, can I vote for the same image three times thus giving it 6 points? 
or better yet, lets use your system but if someone chooses to only vote once their vote counts a point for every year they have been a member on ESATO. 
@ no one specific
Sorry, this idea is quite meretricious ... everybody wants to be the hero in suggesting new ways to do things "better" but in reality we are only making a fun/simple thing more complex then it need be. If you like a picture vote for it.... if you don't.. well then, don't vote for it. If your upset that you didn't get any votes BOOOHOOO... try harder next month, we've all entered an lost... NO BIG DEAL after all its just for FUN.
Cheers
[ This Message was edited by: mlife on 2013-07-03 01:09 ] [addsig] |
thesun
Joined: Sep 02, 2009
Posts: 215
PM |
First of all, its not about me.
Secondly, its time to move on. Isnt it a nice way to appreciate all the contestant if the voting standard has been upped?
Withe this method, i believe the difficulty to be a true winner is much more difficult, but not impossible, clear winner is still a clear winner, contestants have put alot of effort to make their pictures comply to the theme. Would not it be nice if the voting too put extra effort of selecting the winner? Afterall, everybody can vote.
Thirdly, i dont know about all of you, but my brains clearly does not work like a binary system, either 1 or 0 only. 
http://www.flickr.com/groups/c901/ |
thesun
Joined: Sep 02, 2009
Posts: 215
PM |
On 2013-07-02 23:08:02, etaab wrote:
Its not so much about the winning, rather that some people don't get votes which they otherwise would deserve. That's the only fault with the voting but theres no way to police it.
I remember last year there was one particular month where the winning photo in most peoples opinions was average to poor. But what mattered most was that some of the entrants were quite disappointed they didn't get a single vote. Which was surprising because some were really good images.
see, its not only me that notice this.
please watch this video on youtube to understand better why i proposed this system
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y3jE3B8HsE
[ This Message was edited by: thesun on 2013-07-03 02:00 ] http://www.flickr.com/groups/c901/ |
mlife
Joined: Jan 16, 2003
Posts: > 500
PM |
On 2013-07-03 02:45:26, thesun wrote:
On 2013-07-02 23:08:02, etaab wrote:
Its not so much about the winning, rather that some people don't get votes which they otherwise would deserve. That's the only fault with the voting but theres no way to police it.
I remember last year there was one particular month where the winning photo in most peoples opinions was average to poor. But what mattered most was that some of the entrants were quite disappointed they didn't get a single vote. Which was surprising because some were really good images.
see, its not only me that notice this.
please watch this video on youtube to understand better why i proposed this system
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y3jE3B8HsE
[ This Message was edited by: thesun on 2013-07-03 02:00 ]
Great, you're not the only one that noticed... lots of people join cults too, does that make it a better organization?
And SORRY, but it IS about WINNING or would we even be entering/voting at all??? to say that "some people don't get votes which they otherwise would deserve" is ridiculous... If I wanted to vote for "that" image, wouldn't I have? You can't force votes out of me if I only like one image and its unfair to weigh that vote less points because I have the ability to make a decision (I'm sure even you would agree with that, I hope)... So stop trying to pat everyone on the A$$ --- if your so concerned with giving everyone a warm hug for entering, why not rank every photo so EVERYONE in essence gets a vote... YEAH, that is ridiculous, isn't it?!?!- I'm glad you get it.
This is just silly and I hope the collective of this board doesn't allow this simple & fun shootout to become some elaborate process just so a few feelings aren't hurt because they didn't get anyone to vote for them.
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thesun
Joined: Sep 02, 2009
Posts: 215
PM |
lol.. I dont get it why you are so against to this new system.
or do you really need a third party account that never participated in the contest or even out of esato forum to suggest this idea so only that way will convince you that this isnt about butthurted people, but a fair contest.
if the picture is good, it will win in any system.
it will be on the top on my proposed system, and also the current system.
i dont see why you would be so against it. Unless you voted for the lesser one? Only god knows.. Lol
[ This Message was edited by: thesun on 2013-07-03 05:31 ] http://www.flickr.com/groups/c901/ |
Hobbs
Joined: Oct 07, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: Cape Town,South Africa
PM |
In photography its very hard to say that one photo is better than anothers. A photograph speaks to each individual in a different way. Etaab mentioned Cupcakes zoo photo with the elephant been better than most the entries yet she didnt get much votes. I considered voting for it but just couldnt. The water pond on the left of the photo had been chopped. If that photo had been taken a little bit more to the left where the whole water pond showed it would have been a winner for me. Some photos are taken where no cropping is neccessary first time round. Some are taken where cropping is neccessary to save the photo.
I dont know why im waffling on here other than to say 1 vote is all that is needed if people just take more time and put more thought into that 1 vote. You can vote one day and choose a photo and vote the very next day with the same selection of photos and choose differently. Photography also depends on your mood.
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Ricky D
Joined: Feb 05, 2007
Posts: > 500
From: UK (living in Beijing)
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A 3 vote system requires more effort from the point of view of the voter and the calculator. It is also completely unnecessary nigh on detrimental to the competition as it gives dishonest voters triple the opportunity to vote 'against' a good photo.
If you openly admit a 3 vote system wouldn't effect the outcome why push it so hard?
I don't want to discourage progressive thinking or new ideas but we should have sense enough to know when, after evaluation, an idea doesn't make the grade.
How about this, we let the previous winner decide the voting system for their month's theme? Only this may be even more confusing as it could change every month.
Another thing, why is the suggestion a 3 vote system instead of a 2 vote (2 points for 1st choice, 1 point for second) system? Or why not rank all the entries top to bottom and the number of points run according to the number of entries? Either of these two make more sense than a 3 vote, but still neither I'd prefer over a straight forward, simple for everyone, 1 vote system.
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Hobbs
Joined: Oct 07, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: Cape Town,South Africa
PM |
In photography its very hard to say that one photo is better than anothers. A photograph speaks to each individual in a different way. Etaab mentioned Cupcakes zoo photo with the elephant been better than most the entries yet she didnt get much votes. I considered voting for it but just couldnt. The water pond on the left of the photo had been chopped. If that photo had been taken a little bit more to the left where the whole water pond showed it would have been a winner for me. Some photos are taken where no cropping is neccessary first time round. Some are taken where cropping is neccessary to save the photo.
I dont know why im waffling on here other than to say 1 vote is all that is needed if people just take more time and put more thought into that 1 vote. You can vote one day and choose a photo and vote the very next day with the same selection of photos and choose differently. Photography also depends on your mood.
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Posted: 2013-07-02 16:57
