| Author |
A warning system |
Dogmann
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: London England
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Hi all,
I agree their should be a warning system in place but also recognise this will create even more work for the mods and admin. I believe a Forum any Forum is a place where people should be able to express their views and opinions in a non insulting manner. Personally i hate it when people who are unable to articulate what they mean resort to insults and name calling very childish and unnecessary. In general most of the time it is quite civilised and humorous here but occasionally it does get out of hand.
Offenders should be warned their behaviour is unacceptable and i think this should be done openly to help deter others, persistent offenders should be either temporarily suspended or banished for ever if the don't change their ways.
Marc
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BobaFett
Joined: Jan 06, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Kamino (wish it would be Lund)
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imo the best warning system is to pm the mods if we recognize any not welcome post here, i mean it mainly according mobile fone related posts. really donnow whats the best according politic and religion, but as i see, esato stayed clear of it lately, so imo in that area is all fine
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SsTiTcH
Joined: Nov 08, 2004
Posts: 173
From: Kyoto.Singapore,Malaysia
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Must admit the warning system is a good idea. Have seen too many interesting threads locked and or deleted. Usually due to 2 individuals who seem to delight in being provacative in other peoples posts. One i noticed appears to search out threads to disrupt.. Shame that discussions get sabotaged by some individuals. And my apologies to Axxxr that i allowed my temper to slip a bit toward one of them in his 9/11 post. Usually i try to be more rational. But yes a warning system of some sort would be good. |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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The current system seems to work fairly well and I see no pressing reason to change it.
I don't see that a warning system is going to actually add anything to the forum. How effective would it be to know that someone has been warned about something if we don't know what that something is? If we are told about the reasons behind warnings then we will have to hear about every minor event that entails a warning as well as every argument and disagreement that reults in a warning and every halfwit who deliberately spams and posts tosh to disrupt the board. I don't see that as being either sensible or a good use of the moderators' time.
Then there is the possibility that a warning system could be used to manipulate the forum. Supposing someone sees that someone they don't like has a warning, they could perhaps try to goad the other person into breaking the rules again, knowing that they have already been warned and thus are getting closer to possibly being banned.
As for the suggestion of a three strike system, I can't say I find that any better. Do we want such a system that could constrain the moderators? I say constrain because at the moment the moderators can use their best judgment to decide on issues, but in a three strike system that might not be the case.
Imagine someone who has made three minor rule breaches; they would have to be banned under such a system, rather the moderators being able to decide on a case by case basis. The same would apply for someone who already had two 'strikes' and inadvertantly broke the rules a third time, again that member would be banned automatically.
I prefer to trust the moderator's judgement. Of course they are fallible, but in the time I have been a member here, they have done a good job of keeping this forum running well.
Moderating a forum should not be a public spectacle, and that is a principle the Esato moderators seem to have adhered to for as long as I can remember. Let the moderators get on with their jobs, they know what they are doing and I trust them to be able to make the right decision.
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[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2006-09-18 16:17 ] |
axxxr
Joined: Mar 21, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Londinium
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Quote:
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On 2006-09-18 17:13:57, scotsboyuk wrote:
The current system seems to work fairly well and I see no pressing reason to change it.
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The current system doesn't resolve the issue of certain members who intentionaly go into threads in oder to sabotage them and have them locked....They know that simply by them deliberately making offensive and off topic remarks is a sure way moderators will lock the thread,and the thread poster and positive contributers of that thread lose out on their discussion which until that point was going well.
The current system only rewards trouble makers and not deter them in any kind of way.
[addsig] |
amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Doha, London, Tokyo, Shanghai
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I agree, I do not think that the current system is bad, i think there is room for improvement.
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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Quote:
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On 2006-09-18 21:05:46, axxxr wrote:
The current system doesn't resolve the issue of certain members who intentionaly go into threads in oder to sabotage them and have them locked....They know that simply by them deliberately making offensive and off topic remarks is a sure way moderators will lock the thread,and the thread poster and positive contributers of that thread lose out on their discussion which until that point was going well.
The current system only rewards trouble makers and not deter them in any kind of way.
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There are three parts to this argument in my opinion, and I shall address each in turn.
First of all we have the issue of the members allegedly sabotaging threads. The present system allows a moderator to warn/ban such a member and to delete that member's posts in said thread. Indeed, one only has to look at the 9/11 thread to see how a moderator recently pruned back off-topic posts and set the thread back on track.
No one has to respond to another member's posts. If someone is disrupting a thread then the best thing to do would be to ignore them and report them to the moderators. That way deliberate disruption can be minimised.
What would a warning system do to prevent thread disruptions? Trouble makers will already know they have received a warning and so know that they are closer to being banned. All a warning system would really do would be to advertise that fact to everyone else, with the negative aspects I pointed out before.
The second point is the underlying reason change is being proposed at all. Any thread has the potential to be hijacked, but threads dealing with controversial subjects are more likely to be co-opted by people looking to cause trouble. But then what do you expect? If one wishes to discuss subjects that have the potential to cause controversey or serious disagreement one is going to have to expect the possibility of arguments.
If such topics can not be discussed here in a civil manner in the first place perhaps the question we should be asking is whether they should be discussed at all rather than looking to change the way the forum works to accomodate topics that bring trouble? Simply put, if certain topics can't be discussed sensibly then I don't see why they deserve special treatment to accomodate them.
The last point is in this notion of 'rewarding' troublemakers. If someone is breaking the rules the moderators can and will deal with that person, either through giving them a warning to stop what they are doing or banning them to prevent them from doing it again. It's a relatively simple system.
What exactly is it you want to be done to members who break the rules? Beyond giving them a warning or banning what can be done? We have moderators here to keep order and ensure the forum runs smoothly, I don't see that moves to 'publicise' that process or force the moderators to take decisions they otherwise might not have are good things to do.
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[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2006-09-18 23:38 ] |
goldenface
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Liverpool City Centre
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I think anything that loads extra work onto the moderators is a no no, when you look at how many there are and how many are actually visible then it seems to me they must have enough to do behind the scenes already.
I think the best way to keep things in the check is for members to be proactive. Most people on here know what they can and cannot get away with already and newbies soon pic up on the rules and etiquette.
If something offends you or upsets you then pm a mod - asking the mods to keep track of how many strikes each member has is tantamount to tripling the workload for them.
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amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Doha, London, Tokyo, Shanghai
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the system is supposed to help the mods and also to prevent people from 'sabotaging' threads constantly. Because whether they get a reply or not, their goal has been fulfilled.
additionally, if we were to simply stop allowing certain topics. I guess it means the 'saboteurs' win.
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[ This Message was edited by: amnesia on 2006-09-19 01:25 ] |
wrecked_porsche
Joined: Jul 01, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: I'm not telling u !
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I agree with scotsboyuk and goldenface. I think that the mods already have too much work as it is.
Regarding thread hijackers, I've been here a looooong time already and I have seen all kinds of clowns. My method of dealing with these trolls is simple. Just ignore them. Just act as if they are not there. I know, it seems simple, but its actaually easier said than done.
First of all it takes enormous self-control to not actually say something in retaliation to that troll. The point to remember is that the troll is looking for a reaction. Give him/her none and you would have "won". You guys said you don't want them to "win" right? Then ignore them, when they get no reaction they will feel silly/mad. Then you would have "won". Don't give them a rection, give them nothing, don't waste your time and energy.
Do they actually deserve you precious time and energy? Think about that.
Right, now the other thing we can't control is how the other members are going to react to trolls right? When a troll steps into the thread, I'd suggest that you guys advise other members/newbies to ignore "it". IMHO, its a better approach than telling the troll to bugger off. That way you guys just continue as if 'it" is not there. Don't get worked up over something soo trivial. Its just not worth it. Really it isn't. Just move on and talk to the nice people. Ignore the worthless ones.
If ALL of us can just learn to ignore the crappy posts, I think the number of crappy posts will just dwecline and eventually go away. I cannot stress enuf the importance of ALL of us working together to ignore the people who are just not worth talking to. Like i said, do you want to waste your time and effort responding to these people? Is your time and effort that worthless? Don't waste it.
My sig says it the best. 
Cheers people. Don't get too worked up. 
Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.  I  Nokia N95 8GB and N82 |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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@amnesia
I don't see how a warning system would prevent people from hijacking threads though.
@sanjeevjaya
Well said, you're spot on there old boy. No one on this forum is forced to reply to anyone else. Furthermore, if one wants to discuss subjects that one knows are likely to cause arguments then one should be prepared for that. Either accept that arguments, disagreements, etc may occur or don't discuss such subjects.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
axxxr
Joined: Mar 21, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Londinium
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Where exactly do we draw the line of such subjects?do we just ban everything that has even the smallest chance of causeing arguements,I doubt very much that would be a good solution,as that would be compromising the freedoms on what the members choose to post.
A Warning System should be active across the board over the entire forum not just for the non-mobile section as thats just a very small part of esato.
Under the current system the mods may lock or edit a thread if they see trouble,but with a Warning System the Mods can simply give a strike to the offender which should be visible under his/her username..which is the best form of deterant and in no way increases the work load for the mods as they would have put exactly the same amount of effort in locking or editing a topic.
[addsig] |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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Quote:
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On 2006-09-19 23:15:21, axxxr wrote:
Where exactly do we draw the line of such subjects?do we just ban everything that has even the smallest chance of causeing arguements,I doubt very much that would be a good solution,as that would be compromising the freedoms on what the members choose to post.
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This all sounds rather melodramatic and really is quite unnecessary. For one thing, the phrase "...compromising the freedoms on what the members choose to post" suggests that we, as members, somehow have a right to post as we wish. We do not. laffen and the moderators set the rules on what we are allowed to post and we have to follow those rules. If a certain topic is seen to be causing trouble it can be banned.
The situation is actually very simple if one uses common sense. If a particular topic keeps causing trouble it can be banned. If a particular member keeps causing trouble he/she can be banned.
Quote:
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A Warning System should be active across the board over the entire forum not just for the non-mobile section as thats just a very small part of esato.
Under the current system the mods may lock or edit a thread if they see trouble,but with a Warning System the Mods can simply give a strike to the offender which should be visible under his/her username..which is the best form of deterant and in no way increases the work load for the mods as they would have put exactly the same amount of effort in locking or editing a topic.
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How exactly will it be a deterant? The moderators will have to inform the community every time they give a warning/ban to explain why someone is getting a mark against there name for it to be a deterant. Otherwise it's just a mark against someone's name and could have been given for anything.
This would mean more work for the moderators in having to post about decisions they take as well as opening up, what has always been a private process, to the entire forum. I daresay that if the moderators thought it was a good idea to share their decisions with the community they would have done so before now.
Even if this were to happen, I am still unsure as to whether it would really be a deterant. After all, the people you mention i.e. those deliberately trying to hijack a thread are unlikely to be detered from doing so by the prospect of getting a mark against their name. The end result would still be the same, the moderators would have to ban those who persist in causing trouble so why give them the extra work of having to explain why someone received a warning?
How would we avoid manipulation of such a system by people looking to goad those with warnings? Would they be given warnings too, which might lead to people goading them and so on?
The present system works well from what I can see. If the moderators felt that it didn't I imagine they would have changed it.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
*Jojo*
Joined: Oct 15, 2003
Posts: > 500
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For EVERYTHING else . . there's JUST the Private Messages section for 2 or MORE erring members to CONTINUE their: nuclear-bomb-attacks with each other !
[addsig] |
amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Doha, London, Tokyo, Shanghai
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all I know is that 5 years ago when I was on Neowin, I let it slip by calling someone an 'idiot who can't contain two thoughts in his mind' and I was given a warning.
Seeing that little red dot underneath my avatar pissed me off, but it also made me weary.
Additionally, you fail to see that although a system can work fine, there is always room for improvements. The Admins are people just like us and may not have thought of implementing such a thing.
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[ This Message was edited by: amnesia on 2006-09-23 18:11 ] | |
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Posted: 2006-09-11 21:51
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