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A review of SE's phone software / GUI (vs Nokia's S40 3rd Edition platform) |
DragonEye
Joined: Sep 26, 2002
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On 2006-08-24 05:59:00, mib1800 wrote:
they make margin on phones that Nokia can only dream of
I think you got it the other way round. 
since you're saying 6233 is cheap therefore k800i should be more capable.. well if s60 devices are more capable then it should be more expensive then k800i right?
You are taking it out of context. What I am saying is 6233 is positioned lower (i.e. spec-wise) in the market segment. s60 is inherently more capable is due to potential of the Symbian OS core.
meaning s40 at it's current maxed out potential equals 6233 and SE UI maxed out equals k800i (no one is talking about better cam and what not.. even the review doesn't give points for those factors. (it was a tie in the review 1 for nokia video, 1 for se cam))
I only have the following which I find about UI comparison are not valid:-
- he gives 2 points to K800 for webbrowser+rss which is a bundled netfront software and NOT related to UI/OS.
- he has 2 categories one for Java and one for multi-tasking. If you read his comment in this 2 categories he was just mentioning the same functionality. Both points went to K800.
- he purposely creates an "alarm clock" category which should be group under "Extra" functions. Why should a small "alarm clock" app takes equal weighting as the entire "Organiser". Obviously he gave this point to K800.
Like you say, camera and video recording capability should also not be in the comparison.
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alarm clock i agree should be extras...
netfront.. is the browser app that SE has choosen it is the default app therefore intergrated with the UI IMO.. just like how nokia uses a java based email client
java on it's own can multitask sounds like a plus to me
(i can run msn (migg33) and play a java game)
but also multitasking other items (non-java, music, browser, sms, calendar etc.. is also a + IMO)
(i can switch between, music player, respond to sms, open my calendar etc.etc... also seems like a plus. that fact that i can even mix it with java gives another +)
the multitasking is a huge step imo... that makes benificial like a smartphone
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701
Joined: Nov 26, 2002
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Lemme giv' ya a one-liner:u really ARE pathetic! Peoples here know why.
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max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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It comes down to preference ultimately, as mib said it's like pissing in the Amazon.
When talking about the virtues of this interface or that, it's best not to get too wrapped up in any particular model; we want to compare the interface itself not the platform. S60 and UIQ3 are both an interface for symbian - so we are not talking about the virtues of the operating system itself, but the interface that sits on top.
Personally I prefer SE's non-smartphone ui over either Nokia's S40 and S60 interfaces. Apart from the obvious advantages of running on Symbian, S60 leaves me cold.
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DragonEye
Joined: Sep 26, 2002
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On 2006-08-25 06:43:19, 701 wrote:
Lemme giv' ya a one-liner:u really ARE pathetic! Peoples here know why.
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do i even know you? lol ok dude...
Shaolinmonk on HOFO Official PHONE JUNKIE
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ares
Joined: Dec 11, 2003
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i have a feeling i was not refering to you but to our anti-se friend lol |
mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
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| the multitasking is a huge step imo... that makes benificial like a smartphone |
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This I have to agree. SE UI as implemented in K800 is the most capable non-smartphone OS/UI in terms of support for multi-tasking.
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max_wedge
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On 2006-08-25 16:12:00, mib1800 wrote:
Quote:
| the multitasking is a huge step imo... that makes benificial like a smartphone |
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This I have to agree. SE UI as implemented in K800 is the most capable non-smartphone OS/UI in terms of support for multi-tasking.
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The multitasking in K800 is awesome, but mostly the hoohah is about Java multitasking. Even the K750 et al has excellent multi-tasking ability. SE takes advantage of the fact that JAVA, MP3 PLayer, Camera and Phone all run on separate chips, so the functions can run prallel without the OS actually needing any Multi-Tasking ability. But only one instance of any one chip can run at a time, for example you can use Java, while you listen to MP3, but you can't have two Java apps running (on K750/W900 etc).
On K800, the Java platform CAN run multiple Java apps, but the phone interface is still much the same as on previous or current low end models. You still can't run the Calander then minimise it to run the calculator for example. You can only task switch between JAVA apps, or between chip-based hardware functions, AFAIK.
Still, JAVA multitasking is an exciting development, and non-smartphones may become almost as useful as smartphones with the ability to run multiple java apps, in the foreground and background as needed.
Actual smartphones will become almost obsolete and only needed in the high end market (as they used to be).
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[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2006-08-25 23:54 ] |
mib1800
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max:
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| Actual smartphones will become almost obsolete and only needed in the high end market (as they used to be).
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I think it is the other way round. More and more non-touchscreen smartphones are becoming the norm in mid-end. (s60, wm by samsung & htc, linux like moto e2). |
Supa_Fly
Joined: Apr 16, 2002
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On 2006-08-26 00:52:12, max_wedge wrote:
This I have to agree. SE UI as implemented in K800 is the most capable non-smartphone OS/UI in terms of support for multi-tasking. (Edited)
On K800, the Java platform CAN run multiple Java apps, but the phone interface is still much the same as on previous or current low end models. You still can't run the Calander then minimise it to run the calculator for example. You can only task switch between JAVA apps, or between chip-based hardware functions, AFAIK.
Still, JAVA multitasking is an exciting development, and non-smartphones may become almost as useful as smartphones with the ability to run multiple java apps, in the foreground and background as needed. (edited for clarity)
Actual smartphones will become almost obsolete and only needed in the high end market (as they used to be). [ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2006-08-25 23:54 ]
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>> Been a long-time my Friendly/intelligent arch nemises in the battle of non/Smartphones.
You've mentioned a major flaw about the SE interface that I sincerely HOPE they can remedy. The lack of ability to Navigate a Calendar App - based in Firmware and the CORE OS - and not minimize it to switch to another Core OS function. (this was a great example, I might want to have a calculation to be posted into a meeting appointment; such as how many hours I've worked. I'd like SE to improve the Calendar app - like the S60 app I forgot; which allowed me to enter my start time & end time of my shift and post the total hours of that shift in the quick view. I'd also love the ability to see an "ajenda" view like that of the RIM BB units just days that have appointments/meetings not blank days for a quick glance. This is where the MS Smartphone Mobile 5 platform has made HUGE strides that even the S60 platform is catching up to. (personally I'd rather have Nokia win that battle than M$; as they tend to flatter SE with copy cat designs).
Touch screen devices will disappear unless drawing or complete gaming interaction can be implemented (a la nintendo DS style for gaming).
> SE no doubt will continue to improve their user interface; I for one currently am suffering with the z520i but upgrading SOON to the w810i; I'm still considering the K790 (i'm in N.A. so the k800 will have no use to me).
So in short I believe Smartphones with creative apps will STILL have a place due to their SUPERIOR application multitasking; BUT SE isnt TOO far behind. However they need to kill off that NetFront browser and implement their complete push email & webbrowsing suite. Moreover, I have YET to see a non TouchScreen/Smartphone phone be able to EDIT office documents (Word/Excel/PowerPoint)!! A great market killer if this can be done.
|AppleTV2|iPhone 12Mini 256GB|iPad Pro 256GB| Previously ...  K750|Z500|Z520|K700|K790i|K850i, :Ericsson: T18z|T28World|T36m x3|T68m (Ericsson, not the rebranded T68i). |
shyam335
Joined: May 25, 2004
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On 2006-08-26 00:52:12, max_wedge wrote:
The multitasking in K800 is awesome, but mostly the hoohah is about Java multitasking. Even the K750 et al has excellent multi-tasking ability. SE takes advantage of the fact that JAVA, MP3 PLayer, Camera and Phone all run on separate chips, so the functions can run prallel without the OS actually needing any Multi-Tasking ability. But only one instance of any one chip can run at a time, for example you can use Java, while you listen to MP3, but you can't have two Java apps running (on K750/W900 etc).
Still, JAVA multitasking is an exciting development, and non-smartphones may become almost as useful as smartphones with the ability to run multiple java apps, in the foreground and background as needed.
Actual smartphones will become almost obsolete and only needed in the high end market (as they used to be).
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[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2006-08-25 23:54 ]
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seperate chips?
how's that possible,according to your theory there must be 4 or more chip's in k750,but as i know there is only one arm9 based processor (plus maybe some seperate for fm and gsm which is unlikely).
when mp3 player,browser are all running they share the same physical memory,so how can a os without memory management and multitasking ability run them? |
max_wedge
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On 2006-08-26 08:57:37, shyam335 wrote:
seperate chips?
how's that possible,according to your theory there must be 4 or more chip's in k750,but as i know there is only one arm9 based processor (plus maybe some seperate for fm and gsm which is unlikely).
when mp3 player,browser are all running they share the same physical memory,so how can a os without memory management and multitasking ability run them?
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Yes, separate chips. There is a JAVA processor, sound processor, camera processor etc. The ARM9 runs the phone itself, most of the actual functions run off-chip (on their own micro-processors). Neither the K750 or K800 os's have mutli-tasking ability. The Java chip on the K800 can run multiple java apps within one multitasking virtual machine, but that's the limit of multi-tasking in K800.
The ARM9 processor can manage IO requests to and from all the chips attached, but it can't do in parallel all the calculations that those other chips do separately. The reason you can run java AND the mp3 player for example, is because the Sound chip is processing the audio, and the Java chip is processing java. Once the Sound chip has been told to output sound, it runs of it's own accord with no input from the main processor.
@mib, actually I partly agree with you. I wasn't 100% serious about smart phones becoming obsolete  I more just mean that non-smart phones will become much smarter, meaning smartphones won't take over the market (as I used to think they might). With the advent of K800 and hopefully more like it, I think that it's no longer likely that smartphones will become predominant. They'll stay much were they are now.
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max_wedge
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On 2006-08-26 06:04:04, Prom1 wrote:
So in short I believe Smartphones with creative apps will STILL have a place due to their SUPERIOR application multitasking; BUT SE isnt TOO far behind. However they need to kill off that NetFront browser and implement their complete push email & webbrowsing suite. Moreover, I have YET to see a non TouchScreen/Smartphone phone be able to EDIT office documents (Word/Excel/PowerPoint)!! A great market killer if this can be done.
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Yeah, I was a little hasty with claims about smartphones. See my reply to mib in the previous post - I actually agree with you, smartphones are along way from obsolete Actually, I probably still believe eventually all phones will have multi-tasking os's, but the JAVA multi-tasking VM will put that off for quite a few years imho.
Agree with you about office compatibility on non-touchscreen, but what about JAVA support for Office apps? With the power of handsets like K800 it's very feasible now.
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apolloa
Joined: Jul 27, 2005
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On 2006-08-26 05:04:13, mib1800 wrote:
max:
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| Actual smartphones will become almost obsolete and only needed in the high end market (as they used to be).
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I think it is the other way round. More and more non-touchscreen smartphones are becoming the norm in mid-end. (s60, wm by samsung & htc, linux like moto e2).
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Oh dear God, if nokia make touchscreen smart phones then they will be exactly the same as the SE M and P series with UIQ3 hence why they don't. And why do people like you go on about S60 and the SE normal interface. It's simple fact, a 5 year old child can pick up a K800I and use it but NOT a S60 device, it's more advanced and therefore more tricky to use as it offers true multitasking etc, but I like many others here say that S60 HAS to be compared to SE's own smart phones because the S60 interface is for smart phones, even the N80 uses the same S60 interface as the N70 and it's called a 'multimedia computer phone' not a multimedia phone.
I went from a 7610 Nokia to a K750I and it was like a complete breath of freash air, I didn't bother reading the manual as it was so easy to use and absolutly fell in love with SE's interface plus it was very stylish and small compared to the then 6680 which looked like a plastic brick.
Nokia are so obsessed with every b*****y phone being a 3G smart phone that they've forgotten about size and ease of use IMO. The Nokia 6233 is the most comparable to Sony Ericssons K610I size wise and it still doesn't have all the features like video calling or ease of use.
I find nokia's to be boaring now a day's and other makes have much more class, Nokia may have the big stake in the market share's but I think you'll find SE are gunning after them big time now.
Plus Nokia have only just released it's own customer update service, planned forward thinking or a panic response to SE, you decide.
The real comparison review I think will be the Nokia N91 versus the Sony Ericsson W950I, wonder which interface will win? |
max_wedge
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Very good points, I couldn't agree more...
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aragorn666
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sony ericsson is the best
O seeker ! KNOW wHAt YoU SeeK AnD tHEn SeeK. | |
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Posted: 2006-08-24 15:29
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