| Author |
Have Sony Ericsson finally taken the lead in global mobile phone solutions? |
dimenxian
Joined: Oct 13, 2003
Posts: 50
From: xingapore
PM |
i don't know if anyone said this before, but i'll make my point with observations from my part of the world.
at least 30 of all my friends have Series 60 phones, and as far as i can see, none of them have installed ANY application other than Java games (which aren't unique to smartphones anyway).
even the more techie ones among them, the ones who know how to sync their contacts and reminders, don't even touch the Quickoffice Excel and Word editors on their 6670s (a phone which is selling like hotcakes here in Singapore).
and that's the key. i simply wouldn't use a smartphone to do anything serious when it comes to business. ever tried taking notes or entering any amount of text with T9?
so if smartphones aren't for serious business, then what are they for? games. which explains the phenomenon i observed above. or imaging. i notice there's *never* been a Series 60 phone without a good camera touted as one of its key features. 7650. 3650. 6600. 7610. 6670. 6630. 6680.
but aren't these all features that can be had in "dumb" phones like a K700 or a 6230?
my theory is, not many people really do anything with their phones that needs the power of a real OS. they're just buying one for reasons that some have already mentioned above. brand, perhaps. or the crowd factor. oops, i said it again. 
[ This Message was edited by: dimenxian on 2005-03-19 02:18 ] | |
|
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
PM, WWW
|
@dimenxian, right on. It seems only s60 fans can't see it! No one is trying to say stats can't be right, but as we all notice, smartphone is not the selling factor that sells s60 phones.
Jeeze, mib, go sit in a phone store for a while like Scotty says. Or talk to people who aren't diehard smartphone advocates. The thread is asking are SE taking the lead in global mobile phone solutions, nothing was said about smartphones.
Your arguments show that you think a phone company can't be considered "leading edge" if it doesn't have a strong commitment to smartphone capability. This is your only real argument that SE aren't leading edge, the fact they don't have a strong range of smartphone handsets.
When the smartphone issue is more important to end users (other than techos like us), SE will become more aggressive in that market.
Like I've said many times, no smart phone appeals to me as much as the available non-smart SE handsets, and I am very definitely techo orientated. Yes I want a smartphone, but yes I can wait until such a beast exists that doesn't compromise on spec's to achieve smartphone status. I'm still finding ways to make my K700i useful, it is a very flexible platform, even given that it isn't a smartphone.
And besides smart phone advocates keep saying there is so much software available for the s60's. Using that argument, you should buy a phone that runs windows mobile, not a nokia.
Infact, I wouldn't be surprised if the eventual consumer market for smartphones will demand windows smartphones predominately (for that touchy feely feeling of familiarity - all these people are coming off windows computers, they are going to want windows phones).
All we are talking about is in the future. The thread asks is SE NOW a leader. And to answer the question; will they maintain leadership? Only the coming smartphone battle will reveal the answer.
|
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
PM, WWW
|
Quote:
|
On 2005-03-19 02:45:44, mib1800 wrote:
maybe this will sound rude. Am I suppose to "take your word for it" that all the points you brought out without any third party backing is the absolute true situation?
|
|
Perhaps if you would care to read back over my posts you would see that I do provide 'backing' for my points. Perhaps such things as direct user experience or a common knowledge aren't as glamarous as a pie chart (created, presumably, on a S60 smartphone), but they serve well in this instance.
Quote:
|
Contrast this to responses to my post, even with third party statistics, no one will even stop and think whether there may be some truth in the stats, let alone "take my word for it".
|
|
Esato is actually a reasonably objective discussion board, certainly the members who are still in this discussion are not overly reactionary in my view.
The problem with the statistics that you provided is that they really don't show anything other than an increase in smartphone sales. When this is pointed out to you and other inferences are made from those statistics you then make the case for bias.
As far as I can see no one has disuputed these statistics; no one has said that smartphone sales are not increasing. What has been said though, is that such figures are not definitive as no set of statistics can be.
Quote:
|
on your criticism, maybe u want to show me at which point I hv tried to force you to abandon SE and buy s60.
|
|
What is this rot you are trying to peddle? You seem to be the only one under the impression that anyone is trying to force anyone else to do anything.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
dimenxian
Joined: Oct 13, 2003
Posts: 50
From: xingapore
PM |
i think i speak for all SE fans when i say that if there are really smart phones - we are the ones using them 
Quote:
|
On 2005-03-19 04:54:22, max_wedge wrote:
...To answer the question; will they maintain leadership?
|
|
they always have, in the eyes of all who appreciate all that SE stands for. not necessarily in sales figures, but i don't care. after all, the best products are always the most exclusive. the leadership of SE (and Ericsson) has and will always be technological. |
mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
PM |
@scotsboyuk
Quote:
|
The problem with the statistics that you provided is that they really don't show anything other than an increase in smartphone sales. When this is pointed out to you and other inferences are made from those statistics you then make the case for bias.
|
|
My main point is always that K750 and s60 are in the same competing category. When you want to establish leading edge without bias, you should look at all the capabilities of both phones and not selectively excluding those capabilities that your favorite phone dont possess.
You have no data on how many people buy smartphones without using smartphone capability. Your contention is always smartphone features is irrelevant and majority buyers will totally ignore them like they do not exist when buying a phone.
Way back, I hv already agreed with you that smartphone features may not be the decisive factor when making decision to buy. I hv said that the smartphone feature is like free icing on the cake.
I can also tell you as a fact that I know lot of people incl. many students in universities who bought smartphone for exactly what it is intended for. Many of them are installing many programs and playing multiplayer games using bluetooth. But did I use this to make general blanket statement?
Quote:
|
As far as I can see no one has disuputed these statistics; no one has said that smartphone sales are not increasing. What has been said though, is that such figures are not definitive as no set of statistics can be.
|
|
Definitive of what? Did I use these stats to make a statement like "smartphone will kick the ass of every other phone out there". In fact, I have used the stat exactly what u hv said above (i.e. smartphone sales is increasing)
You r the one who is trying to use it in the wrong way by trying to interpret and dispute the figures by saying those who bought smartphone unknowingly bought them and hence the stat is not reflective of the real situation (a situation based on your subjective personal feel).
Who cares what people buy smartphones for (or whether they know it is a smartphone). As long as rate of smartphone sales increase more than normal phone, it means smartphone is becoming more popular.
If your assertion that people bought smartphone unknowingly is true, then we should see the growth of smartphone should be about the same as normal phone. Why is it not?
Quote:
|
What is this rot you are trying to peddle? You seem to be the only one under the impression that anyone is trying to force anyone else to do anything.
|
|
Maybe I should be asking you the same when you accuse me of pandering. I am just responding to your accusation.
[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2005-03-19 15:53 ] |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
PM, WWW
|
Quote:
|
On 2005-03-19 16:50:12, mib1800 wrote:
My main point is always that K750 and s60 are in the same competing category. When you want to establish leading edge without bias, you should look at all the capabilities of both phones and not selectively excluding those capabilities that your favorite phone dont possess.
|
|
YAWN! Are we back to this? Again? For the umpteenth time?
Have you taken anything in over the last dozen pages or so?
Please see my previous posts for a reply to this, I have already given one numerous times to this point.
Quote:
|
You have no data on how many people buy smartphones without using smartphone capability. Your contention is always smartphone features is irrelevant and majority buyers will totally ignore them like they do not exist when buying a phone.
|
|
Your point being ...?
Quote:
|
Way back, I hv already agreed with you that smartphone features may not be the decisive factor when making decision to buy. I hv said that the smartphone feature is like free icing on the cake.
|
|
This is like Groundhog Day! Have you no more substance to your argument that you have to regurgitate points that have been made numerous times before? As I said above, please refer to my earlier posts to see my response to this point.
Quote:
|
I can also tell you as a fact that I know lot of people incl. many students in universities who bought smartphone for exactly what it is intended for. Many of them are installing many programs and playing multiplayer games using bluetooth. But did I use this to make general blanket statement?
|
|
At no time have I ever said that people are not using smatphone features.
Quite why you choose to single out students is somewhat odd. Students are arguably the only other group in addition to business users who would have any real day-to-day need for smartphone features e.g. a schedule busy enough to warrant a function to manage it; the requirement to reguarly deal with essays and other documents; the possibility of travel that necessitates a need for a 'mobile office'.
A far better mark would be to examine the average customer e.g. the housewife, the postman, the binman, the bar worker, etc. Strangely enough there isn't much call for smartphone features in bar work.
Quote:
|
Definitive of what? Did I use these stats to make a statement like "smartphone will kick the ass of every other phone out there". In fact, I have used the stat exactly what u hv said above (i.e. smartphone sales is increasing)
|
|
Then why bother mentioning them at all? As I said, statistics are next to useless here.
Quote:
|
You r the one who is trying to use it in the wrong way by trying to interpret and dispute the figures by saying those who bought smartphone unknowingly bought them and hence the stat is not reflective of the real situation (a situation based on your subjective personal feel).
|
|
Oh please, this sounds like a hissy fit! My argument is not based upon a 'subjective personal feel (sic)', rather direct user experience and interaction.
Quote:
|
Who cares what people buy smartphones for (or whether they know it is a smartphone).
|
|
Apparently you do ...
Quote:
|
As long as rate of smartphone sales increase more than normal phone, it means smartphone is becoming more popular.
|
|
Not really, it only means that smartphones are more widely available to customers. If are going to make a statement like that you should quantify it. One need only look at Nokia's range of products to see that it is increasingly composed of smartphones. Since the majority of customers buy Nokia they also, by default, by more smartphones.
Quote:
|
If your assertion that people bought smartphone unknowingly is true, then we should see the growth of smartphone should be about the same as normal phone. Why is it not?
|
|
For the very reasons I stated in the above response and over the last half dozen pages or so.
Quote:
|
Maybe I should be asking you the same when you accuse me of pandering. I am just responding to your accusation.
|
|
Accusation by inferral is still accusation, you have yet to demonstrate accurately that anyone is trying to force anything upon anyone else.
_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2005-03-19 16:49 ] |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
PM, WWW
|
@scots and @mib, very interesting (not) to the rest of us here to listen in on your nice discussion. Agree to disagree maybe?
@dimenxion, I agree with you re: SE hardware and I believe they certainly will maintain leadership.
I guess my one little concession to the mibs and others is that if SE don't produce a new competitive smartphone soon, then they will be dragging the market (technically and sales wise) in that sector. While I don't believe smartphones are currently a big deal, the time is coming when they will be, and SE will want to be well placed with a smartphone OS version and hardware that can be easily implemented in a wide range of models (not just high end), when that time comes.
That said, I am confident the new smartphones from SE (when they finally arrive) will be mind blowing and hopefully as progressive in their class as phones like the T610 and K700 were, and as the K750 and W800 will be when they are released. |
vanquish
Joined: Mar 20, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Wor Newcastle Phone: V600i
PM, WWW
|
New competitive? Of course they are....
[addsig] |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
PM, WWW
|
Quote:
|
On 2005-03-20 00:53:58, max_wedge wrote:
Agree to disagree maybe?
|
|
I won't agree to that! 
Quote:
|
While I don't believe smartphones are currently a big deal, the time is coming when they will be, and SE will want to be well placed with a smartphone OS version and hardware that can be easily implemented in a wide range of models (not just high end), when that time comes.
|
|
The end of your statement is the most important "... when the time comes." Smartphone will eventually play a dominant role in the mobile market, but I think SE (and others) are quite wise to wait until the time is right to capitalise on that market.
_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2005-03-20 18:25 ] |
vanquish
Joined: Mar 20, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Wor Newcastle Phone: V600i
PM, WWW
|
I agree too. The smartphone market is doing okay for the moment, they need to get really good with imaging and music, which they just have. Once the W800 and K750's are released, then they can go back to looking at smartphones, and then go back to music and its all one big circle! Last year nokia was into 1.3 megapixel phones, whereas Sony Ericsson were into smartphones quite a bit. Now  are onto music, but no doubt will go back to high quality imaging and smartphones when the CeBIT phones are released.
We must wait!
[addsig] |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
PM, WWW
|
Exactly my point too. They will get into smartphones, but SE won't jump on a bandwagon for no good cause. |
S4k1s
Joined: Mar 09, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: Sweden
PM |
Nokia is on to 1.3megapixel phones _now_ not last year... while SE is on to music + have upgraded the cameras. Last year Nokia wasn't even really on to real vga cameras.
As for the smartphones, SE got the P series that works really good, normal users and students have the k/v series.
I have a k500i right now .. it got games + camera + basic calendar/schedule functions, and I am more creative with my phone and use it more than my friends with s60 phones that only use their phones mostly to make calls...
k750/w800 is a great step forward for usuall phones. The only really _usefull_ smartphones are the ones with touch screen, and those are the P series that are best in class.
What SE need is to produce more phones. They have to start hiring the people they fired some years ago in sweden/europe and let them manufacture phones to get sales up. Because that is the problem with every SE phone, people want to buy but there are no phones in the stores ..
I guess this was my first post in Esato =P .. just some thoughts from me ..
have been here for over a year actually, reading but never posted..
but lo all =) |
mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
PM |
@scotsboyuk
Dont forget u r also repeating the same point. When I ask for any third party proof many times, you just hv repeatedly ignore that. You kept saying what I hv brought out is untrue and yet you hv provided no concrete proof that it is otherwise. So what is the point in further debate? YAWN.
|
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
PM, WWW
|
@mib, the evidence we are quoting which you don't seem to place any value on, (a lot of people here agree with scots in principle, if not in every little degree of his argument), is a huge body of anecdotal evidence, discussions with friends, observations in phone shops, marketing methods used by telcos and phone companies, and many other bits of evidence that are at least as good if not better than your inconclusive statistics
Come and sit in the local vodafone shop and ask me how many times you hear the word smartphone? Not too often.
I know because I've waited in those stores for hours at a time |
*Jojo*
Joined: Oct 15, 2003
Posts: > 500
PM |
Nokia - RULES !
[addsig] | |
|
Access the forum with a mobile phone via esato.mobi
|
Posted: 2005-03-19 03:15
