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SONY XPERIA Rumors 2014 |
Xajel
Joined: Jun 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Bahrain
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On 2014-03-07 09:56:55, Jubei1 wrote:
I dont know. Qualcomms leaked official roadmap only mentions Snapdragon 805
Well, if the leaked official roadmap only mentions 805 that doesn't mean there's nothing beyond...
Plus, I think that the leaked roadmap is already old ( does any one know when it was leaked ?), most SoC manufacturers accelerated the 64bit efforts after Apple's A7 announcement...
On 2014-03-07 09:56:55, Jubei1 wrote:
But the baidu leak about 810 is obviously fake. Adreno 430 clocked at 500 Mhz but Adreno 330 in AB/AC clocked at 550/578 Mhz? Microsoft announced Qualcomm as partner for DirectX12 recently but the leak only mentions DirectX 11.2 for a future chip?
This alone isn't a solid prove, It's highly likely that Adreno 400 series are actually more efficient compared to Adreno 300 ones... so these might not need higher clocks to be more powerful, as higher clocks generate more heat and require more power, Qualcomm will not depend solely on process advancement to reach higher performance...
It's not something I know, I'm not an insider, but with a long background in computing, processors, GPU's I can guarantee that lowering the clock does not mean lower performance if the architecture is more efficient per clock.. going one whole series change in the model number ( from 300 to 400 ) means the architecture is different...
Regarding the DX 12, no manufacturer is allowed to talk anything about DX12 if MS didn't reveal it yet, even in internal documents... and I believe that the specifications of DX12 wasn't close to the final ones when the document is leaked, so nothing can be made sure...
MS normally sends the changes to the GPU manufacturers,, these change are normally in different categories, some are required, some are recommended as they might be required in future update, and some might not be required or recommended... for example the tessellation feature in desktop GPU wasn't required untill DX11, but ATi ( then AMD ) was already supporting it long time before DX11 thought the specifications of DX11 tessellation was different...
MS do this in order to make sure that GPU makers are ready with their hardware before the release or finalization of the DX standard... this is why you see some GPU might actually support DX11.1 even thought they was designed before the finalization of the DX11.1 spec. them selfs...
On 2014-03-07 09:56:55, Jubei1 wrote:
Most of the specs sound like wishful thinking. Im sure Qualcomm is working on a 64-bit chip but they havent even released Snapdragon 805 yet. Realistic expectation would be that Xperia Z3 comes with Snapdragon 805
Sometimes this might be true, but if you look deeper, all manufacturers are actually accelerating the 64bit to release before what they originally planned, so that leak might be old before the change to the roadmaps began...
On 2014-03-07 09:56:55, Jubei1 wrote:
I wouldnt expect a flagship 64 bit phone until CES 2015
I can think that there's a chance in 2H14, even if it was weak to mid knowing that Sony is targeting Sep/Oct... thought this is only apply to Sony as they depend on Qualcomm for all of their high-ends... but I expect other phone designers to have high-ends 64bit in 2H14 like Samsung or some other Chinese makers with Chinese or Intel based SoC... even NV says that Denver will be ready in 2H14 thought I'm very cautious regarding it's power consumption, I feel that the announced power will not be available for standard smartphones... it might be possible for a new class of very high-end tablets, laptops, AIO or even other markets...
Actually, Sony might actually working with prototypes of the 64bit high-end Qualcomm SoC... they get access to all SoC way before finalization and announcement.. not just Sony but most manufacturers have some kind of agreement... Qualcomm actually makes some changes to the design by it's customers orders or notes... after all they search for customers happiness 
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Ricky D
Joined: Feb 05, 2007
Posts: > 500
From: UK (living in Beijing)
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..and then Apple will claim they invented 64-bit and sue everyone.
I have a dig bick
You read that wrong |
Jubei1
Joined: Feb 19, 2013
Posts: 99
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[quote]
On 2014-03-08 17:05:07, Xajel wrote:
On 2014-03-07 09:56:55, Jubei1 wrote:
I dont know. Qualcomms leaked official roadmap only mentions Snapdragon 805
Well, if the leaked official roadmap only mentions 805 that doesn't mean there's nothing beyond...
Plus, I think that the leaked roadmap is already old ( does any one know when it was leaked ?), most SoC manufacturers accelerated the 64bit efforts after Apple's A7 announcement...
Since you say you know a few things about the business, you should know that nobody designs a CPU in 6 months, it takes years of planning wich is why these roadmaps stretch for years. Even when you announce a CPU, it might be 6 months to a year before its available in products. The roadmap was leaked fall 2013 btw so its not that old
As for accelerating 64 bit efforts, why is Qualcomm using stock ARM A53 cores if they had any custom core 64 bit chips in the pipeline anytime soon?
On 2014-03-07 09:56:55, Jubei1 wrote:
But the baidu leak about 810 is obviously fake. Adreno 430 clocked at 500 Mhz but Adreno 330 in AB/AC clocked at 550/578 Mhz? Microsoft announced Qualcomm as partner for DirectX12 recently but the leak only mentions DirectX 11.2 for a future chip?
This alone isn't a solid prove, It's highly likely that Adreno 400 series are actually more efficient compared to Adreno 300 ones... so these might not need higher clocks to be more powerful, as higher clocks generate more heat and require more power, Qualcomm will not depend solely on process advancement to reach higher performance...
No its not. But the efficiency requirements came with Adreno 420. The first number suggests its a whole new design, yet the 430 gets a minor 50 Mhz clock bump and fillrate goes from 4 Gpixels /sec to 6 gpixels?!
It's not something I know, I'm not an insider, but with a long background in computing, processors, GPU's I can guarantee that lowering the clock does not mean lower performance if the architecture is more efficient per clock.. going one whole series change in the model number ( from 300 to 400 ) means the architecture is different...
Its not either or, Tegra K1 is Nvidias most efficient design so far and its clocked at like 900 Mhz wich is the highest yet for a Nvidia SoC
On 2014-03-07 09:56:55, Jubei1 wrote:
Most of the specs sound like wishful thinking. Im sure Qualcomm is working on a 64-bit chip but they havent even released Snapdragon 805 yet. Realistic expectation would be that Xperia Z3 comes with Snapdragon 805
Sometimes this might be true, but if you look deeper, all manufacturers are actually accelerating the 64bit to release before what they originally planned, so that leak might be old before the change to the roadmaps began...
Like i wrote above, if they accelerated their plans, they wouldnt be announcing Snapdragon 410/610 etc. These are stock ARM cores, and if your response is that they were available sooner, well the schedules release for these chips is 2H 2014. Yet a mythical Snapdragon 810 is going to be available by september
like i said, a lot of wishful thinking from fanboys
On 2014-03-07 09:56:55, Jubei1 wrote:
I wouldnt expect a flagship 64 bit phone until CES 2015
I can think that there's a chance in 2H14, even if it was weak to mid knowing that Sony is targeting Sep/Oct... thought this is only apply to Sony as they depend on Qualcomm for all of their high-ends... but I expect other phone designers to have high-ends 64bit in 2H14 like Samsung or some other Chinese makers with Chinese or Intel based SoC... even NV says that Denver will be ready in 2H14 thought I'm very cautious regarding it's power consumption, I feel that the announced power will not be available for standard smartphones... it might be possible for a new class of very high-end tablets, laptops, AIO or even other markets...
A few months ago a number of posters were so sure that Samsung was going to release a 64 bit chip for the S5. The only 64 bit chip Samsung showed at MWC was for their servers, they announced the Exynos 5422 wich is a regular A15 design instead. You keep arguing that these OEMs have some kind of super secret plan to suddenly release SoCs, thats not how it works you know.
Actually, Sony might actually working with prototypes of the 64bit high-end Qualcomm SoC... they get access to all SoC way before finalization and announcement.. not just Sony but most manufacturers have some kind of agreement... Qualcomm actually makes some changes to the design by it's customers orders or notes... after all they search for customers happiness
Uh no they dont. Do you have any idea how much it would cost to redesign a chip that is already available in silicone for prototypes? Thats not going to happen
Like i said, a roadmap is designed years in advance, its not going to suddenly change because an OEM is unhappy with the design of your GPU, you can change frequency but designwise, nothing is gonna change
We will see at IFA. |
amirprog
Joined: Aug 22, 2013
Posts: > 500
From: Israel
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s810 in 2014? no way in my opinion. when you want answers you look at the past. qualcomm announced s800 in january (!) last year. the first device carrying it was z ultra that was announced in June (!). this by itself tells everything. s805 for next ultra. s805 for next z. period. i'm sure we will see s810 in all MWC 2015 flagships. let's be reasonable.
[ This Message was edited by: amirprog on 2014-03-09 13:47 ] |
Xajel
Joined: Jun 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Bahrain
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@Jubei1
I'm a bit of a hurry so I'll be quick,
first I want to be clear that I doesn't mean in anyway to make you wrong and prove my self as true, it's just a discussion and what I wrote is just my modest opinion.. no offence in any means...
I'll get it as points to make it fast:
1- It's true that designing a CPU takes years, but this applies mostly to x86.. it takes years to design a new architecture, but for ARM it's much faster, not in 6 months but in a little bit less than 2 years ( I remember I read somewhere it's 18 months, but I might forget how long exactly )
2- All of them already started to work on 64bit ARM designs more than 1 - 2 years ago, this is why you already saw some 64bit ARM's is done, like Apple A7 which is already released.. and Qualcomm 410 & 610 which is announced...
NV was working very long time on project Denver and they took this time coz their experience with ARM isn't that much compared to other, + designing an arch. must go in stages like planning, deciding the features, the core design, looking for the best options, then they will start the design... and even with that they might have several designs ( same design with small changes ) to account for any unexpected things that might happens later...
3- Qualcomm is using stock ARM A53 because they tend to use the stock design in several products, specially low-end products, why ? because it's cheaper for them... when they use their design ? after completing it first for the high-end, then scale it down for mid and low... so they have one scalable design that can range in different segmentation of market/performance...
+ their own 64bit design still needs more work, and they knew it from the beginning that's why they worked on ARM stock design... normally stock design doesn't take that much time as ARM already provides the whole design even the masks ( for process making ) for their customers, that's why you might hear from time to time that ARM and TSMC made some progress with manufacturing... actually you can buy the license from ARM and they will give you the designs, go directly to TSMC or Samsung and go ahead, of course you will need to test the production it self, you might need few patches and prototypes before finalising the product but this is how ARM works...
Qualcomm might just added some of their own designs to ARM's one like GPU and some other logics... and I'm pretty sure they reused several designs of their own before to cut costs specially that ARM A53 is compatible with previous 32bit designs, you can just remove A7 and put A53 and that's it...
The point is even ARM isn't ready for the high-end part ( the A57 ), that's why no one announced any thing, and if they, it's only details with more info or release in second half ( like NV )...
So Why Apple has done it ? because they thought of 64bit from the beginning and tweaked their own design to be 64bit and increased the efficiency of it also... Apple is using their SoC for their own only, so they don't have to make sure they follow all ARM guidelines to make the core fully compatible with ARM 64bit.. after all Apple will use it only for it's iOS and they only need it like this... so they don't even need ARM to finish A53/A57 cores to start with it...
All other manufacturers has a different story, then need to make sure it's all compatible or the chip might fail to work on several applications ( and OS's ) as their chips are targeted to a variety of devices and applications...
3- Why Qualcomm released stock ARM while they have something soon ? well they have but not soon enough for their customers and their marketing glamour... so they needed something very fast, and the fastest route will be take an already ready A7 design, and replace the A7 core with A53 core, few changes here and there and viola !!
4- What I said is they already have 64bit designs in the work before Apple announcement, but they targeted a later date for it, let's say late 2015... when Apple did the A7, they rushed it.. I don't mean they will have it in 1H14 but you might have some in 2H14...
5- When any SoC maker announce any chip, be sure that this chip was in the hands of it's customers few months before, how many exactly I don't know but it might vary very much... most SoC makers already playing with 20nm and lower process now, but these are still prototypes and they need a hell of tweaking for the design, same as TSMC and Samsung...
6- I didn't say that Samsung will release 64bit, I said S5 will have multiple versions, including a fullHD display and maybe 2K display, when is that I don't know but I know that the 2K display has a 85% chance that it will be coupled with Exynos SoC... that 2K might be in S5 and might be in Note 4 I don't know either... but Samsung does have multiple versions of S5 and they're working on 2K screens for the mass but they're still not ready, 2K displays are very hard to manufacturer and costly also, they still need more time to optimise it and have plenty of them for the launch quantity...
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CrownedAkuma
Joined: Jun 28, 2013
Posts: > 500
From: North-East Italy
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On 2014-03-09 16:17:56, Xajel wrote:
@Jubei1
I'm a bit of a hurry so I'll be quick,
first I want to be clear that I doesn't mean in anyway to make you wrong and prove my self as true, it's just a discussion and what I wrote is just my modest opinion.. no offence in any means...
I'll get it as points to make it fast:
1- It's true that designing a CPU takes years, but this applies mostly to x86.. it takes years to design a new architecture, but for ARM it's much faster, not in 6 months but in a little bit less than 2 years ( I remember I read somewhere it's 18 months, but I might forget how long exactly )
.........
6- I didn't say that Samsung will release 64bit, I said S5 will have multiple versions, including a fullHD display and maybe 2K display, when is that I don't know but I know that the 2K display has a 85% chance that it will be coupled with Exynos SoC... that 2K might be in S5 and might be in Note 4 I don't know either... but Samsung does have multiple versions of S5 and they're working on 2K screens for the mass but they're still not ready, 2K displays are very hard to manufacturer and costly also, they still need more time to optimise it and have plenty of them for the launch quantity...
This was the "I'm a bit of a hurry so I'll be quick" post? I would love to see the "I have plenty of time to respond you" version 
By the way thanks for the insight  |
amirprog
Joined: Aug 22, 2013
Posts: > 500
From: Israel
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@CrownedAkuma
talking about 2k panels, what is interesting is that such displays should give manufacturers slightly more space to place other hardware components or to shorten phone bezel/thickness even more because those panels are said to be thinner, narrower and also lighter - less phone weight. jdi 5.4" 2k panel has almost the same diagonal of their 5.2" FHD panel (which i suppose is in Z2). |
my ninja
Joined: Sep 23, 2004
Posts: > 500
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I will proudly say that I was one of the posters sure that Sammy would drop a 64bit chip in the S5 given the pace of the previous devices. boy howdy was I wrong, i forget that complacency is a disease.. either way, i had full expectation that there would have been an S5 with Exy-64bit + LPDDR4. that ship sailed there are still some clinging onto a 'metal' s5 but ill refrain from leaving my neck out there. QComm is getting off easy I will say that but it shouldnt be an issue going forward their only 'real' competition is Denver.K1 but theres the assumption of the SoC being power hungry with absolutely no information to back that up. still a dual core design is intriguing a midst 4x4 designs of other manufacturers.
Personally I would love to see a ultra high end Ubuntu/Denver device..
as for sony, they will more than not stay within their supply chain unless something better/cheaper comes along. finance rules the day for this one folks, sad to say. theres nothing wrong with QComm as far as performance/feature set in terms of incremental updates.
I have a STRONG inclination that most of these companies are waiting behind google to get off their ass and update the android kernel. who knows what we will see this year for google i/o... the Nexus 6 in november (depends on who the vendor is, if its LG the timing may be off, who knows) and Note 4 (aug/sept) may be a treat.. Sony doesnt seem like they are interested in being an also ran either so the Z3 (possibly the Z2 Ultra) may welcome the update as well.. if not it will be more of the same.. 3.4 again and again. fairly certain 3.11 is stable (3.12 should be stable too) who knows what the giant G has upstreamed for themselves either. |
Ricky D
Joined: Feb 05, 2007
Posts: > 500
From: UK (living in Beijing)
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I heard Google are moving away from Nexus devices in favour of GPE devices. Something evident by the flurry of GPE devices in the last 6 months and the complete lack of neither word nor rumour that a Nexus 10 2 will be forthcoming. I'd expect GPE to be given a solid shot for the next year then maybe we'll see a return of the Nexus if the GPE model doesn't work out.
I may be wrong.
Personally I prefer the GPE model. It allows the manufacturers to keep their device identity whilst giving the option of straight android to purists and developers. Also, it gives more options, instead of a single Nexus device there are several GPE devices to choose from in the same size category.
I have a dig bick
You read that wrong |
Away
Joined: Oct 15, 2012
Posts: > 500
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@amirprog
Qualcomm said they won't announce products so far in advance as they used to. So your theory is invalid.
Denver seems to be the only exciting chip this year. Everything points at Qualcomm being complacent, saved due to ARM failing with a15.
[ This Message was edited by: Away on 2014-03-10 10:31 ] |
amirprog
Joined: Aug 22, 2013
Posts: > 500
From: Israel
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@Away
didn't know that. i just read someone in phonearena article comment section says that his friends are working at qualcomm and 64 bit will come later this year on fall, so who knows. |
DexterMoser
Joined: Jul 03, 2013
Posts: 443
From: Bay Harbor Islands, Miami
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On 2014-03-09 17:17:54, CrownedAkuma wrote:
[...] the "I have plenty of time to respond you" version
I'm afraid of that! 
[ This Message was edited by: DexterMoser on 2014-03-10 11:53 ] |
Xajel
Joined: Jun 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Bahrain
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@CrownedAkuma + @DexterMoser
No need to panic
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calim
Joined: Mar 20, 2013
Posts: 48
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How is the Z3 likely to differ? Except for pure numbers like new CPU etc. Is there any piece of hardware the competition has that the Z2 does not but could be added? Like IR or such. |
Away
Joined: Oct 15, 2012
Posts: > 500
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IR.
I think Sony will do more exciting things than just noise cancelling with built in DACs.
Better camera hardware AND software (it's a good thing they didn't make this sensor available for competitors lol).
Heart rate sensor, optional breathalyser test attachment, sensor to determine how well done an egg is, metal detector, built in air bag in case it drops, more exotic colour names (though that's more marketing).*
In the future, concave design with hovering ability so then it can be used as a glider and hover board alongside it's current uses as a float and surfboard.**
*A joke. Sony isn't Samsung***
**see above****
***such messages are now necessary as the iPA (and more recent SPA) audience can't follow what's going on
****see above
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Posted: 2014-03-08 17:05
