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K800 Firmware Overview |
jmcomms
Joined: Mar 12, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: Jonathan Morris
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This debate is quite amusing. Yes, the hardware might be 'old', but it's the same platform they'll be using for some time. No company builds a hardware platform and then replaces it in a few months! If they have to do that, they're going to seriously suffer financially. Nokia were first to cotton on to this idea, and look where they are in the world rankings.
The W850i is based on the K800i platform, and you can be sure that many of the 40-60 new products due for 2007 will be the same (that doesn't mean they can't add new features, like a better camera or more memory).
The K750i is still in production for prepay and emerging markets, in limited edition colours. SE has seen how it worked for Motorola etc to produce pink, brown, silver models etc.. The K800i is out now in a variety of new colours so it certainly isn't time to say RIP yet. Our magazine, and countless others, gave it lots of awards in 2006 and it will be a best seller at Christmas. In fact, SE will probably enjoy good sales of the K750i (prepay) and W850, K800 for contract.
Bear in mind also that Sony Ericsson is now no. 1 in the UK, having outsold Nokia for some months. Apple can't come in overnight and take over, because the millions of handsets sold with Walkman players has resulted in people that want a phone & music trusting Sony's brand. Sure, people like to have their iPod (and many don't want an all-in-one device) but why should someone that wants a phone suddenly trust Apple to deliver? Walkman was a strong brand and the reputation is being restored. No wonder Apple had to take notice of the future loss of sales if they sat on the fence.
Apple had massive success with the iPod, no doubt (partly helped by Sony's inept attitude at the time), but they've not taken over the PC world even though OSX and the design of their laptops are excellent. The fact is, they've got their niche market but that doesn't mean they will succeed in any new market they enter. Naturally, I await the time that I am proved wrong if it happens. | |
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sapporobaby
Joined: Sep 14, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Finland. Kuwait maybe :)
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@jmcomms,
Nice post dude.
My point is, and I think you will agree is that phone manufactures move on after a period of time. They may maintain the core platform but the build upon it and seldom look back. In this very thread, you have the hanger-oner's crying and whining over an upgrade that may or may not come. If SE feels that the k800i is stable enough, they will not bother with an upgrade for minimal things. In this very thread you have people that seem to do nothing except bug hunt and then demand a fix for something that is miniscule in comparison to something major.
The comment about Apple not taking over the computer market is moot. Microsoft makes software while Apple is a hardare/software company. The comparison is not really there. Now, if you say Windows vs. Mac OS X, then you can compare, but in reality your comparison does not make much sense. The comparison is similar to the Ferrari vs. VW Beetle comparison. They are both cars but they serve two different markets with different ideas about where they want to go and how to get there.
I am however with you on the wait and see aspect. It should get interesting and hopefully something good for us consumers.
_________________
*edited on a Mac of course. Mac: There is no substitute*
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[ This Message was edited by: sapporobaby on 2006-12-17 21:06 ] |
Trentors
Joined: Jul 16, 2004
Posts: 88
From: Denmark
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Quote:
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On 2006-12-17 16:02:22, sapporobaby wrote:
Fact: If the iPhone has just half the uptake as the iPod did, does, and continues to do, it will make a market impact that SE has never achieved.
Fact: If the iPhone, like the iPod provides its users with a great interface and the ability to load and unload songs as simply as the iPod does, SE will have a big problem on its hands because the bundles software is nothing less than crap.
Fact: How many iPods out there and how many SE phones? Go do the math Einstein.
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FACT??? You use that term as if all you say is a godly truth. Jesus! Get a grip for crying out loud!
"Fact": Yes if the non-existing iPhone would gain half of iPods success it will be a huge achievement. That is kind of stating the obvious. The real issue here is why should they become such a big success? The phone market is not the same as the portable multimedia player market. A very good example of this is Apple close collaboration with Motorola. They need someone to help them get into this market because what Apple offer is only a small part of the whole mobile phone experience. And the remained part is not something they have ANY goodwill in. Who do you trust more to make a phone? Apple or Nokia? I think i know what many users would prefer.
"Fact": The iPod does not have the ability to let users use other software than their iTunes which is not a easy or even convenient way to transfer files. Especially on the PC.... and guess what people use. Oh and the "great interface" they which is a Mac-fans word for "simple" and borrowed is not necessary good for phones.
"Fact": Why don't you compare Apple with... ORANGES!  Do the math Einstein: How many PC's are out the compared to Apple computers? Does this means if Microsoft creates a phone it will totally dominate everything? Did this happen with Windows Mobile phones? That is not very logical conclusion!
They did something great with the iPod because there was almost NO competition and all the other companies in this segment was rather small or didn't care for much for this market. Guess what: This is not the case with the mobile phone market...
For someone as pretentious and "wise" as you are, you really don't understand much....but preaching and stepping on other people’s opinions is right up your alley it seems.
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. “
-Bertrand Russell, philosopher, mathematician, author, Nobel laureate (1872-1970)
[ This Message was edited by: Trentors on 2006-12-18 18:57 ] |
jmcomms
Joined: Mar 12, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: Jonathan Morris
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Quote:
| The comment about Apple not taking over the computer market is moot. Microsoft makes software while Apple is a hardare/software company. The comparison is not really there. Now, if you say Windows vs. Mac OS X, then you can compare, but in reality your comparison does not make much sense. The comparison is similar to the Ferrari vs. VW Beetle comparison. They are both cars but they serve two different markets with different ideas about where they want to go and how to get there. |
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Well, as a Mac Mini user (as well as an iBook and Windows PC), I think I can say that the comparison is valid. There are more PC users than Mac users, and Apple has only had limited success in changing it.
It's also looking quite bad for Apple when most publishing houses are actually going from Mac to PC (unheard of a few years ago). With the launch of Intel Mac's, you're also seeing the likelihood that people will run Windows on their Mac machines. If this happens on a large scale, you'll see the end of OS X and Apple will simply become a hardware manufacturer.
Apple make nice, no, fantastic, looking machines but developers still shun it. Now the Mac is finding itself the target of various security breaches and attacks, I suppose people are figuring that they might as well stick with Windows.
As stated elsewhere, I hate iTunes. I love the iPod for its simplicity, but when SE produced the W800i, it fitted my needs perfectly. I commute an hour each way, per day. 1 or 2GB of music is all I need. Now I use a W950i (now here's a device that we should all be whingeing about when it comes to dodgy firmware) I have 1050 tracks. At home, I've got 20GB of music but I've never seen the need to carry it all with me. Clearly other people are just as happy, because I now see as many people with a Walkman phone as I do with an iPod.
I can't help but feel the iPhone will be something akin to the W950 or N91, as battery life is essential now it's on all the time. What makes anyone believe Apple can fix the problems facing every other, established, manufacturer? Will it use a fuel cell battery? Will it have a clip on battery pack? Unlikely. I suspect it will be a fairly basic offering (a step up from the Motorola ROKR models), with Apple knowing that it will sell regardless (especially in the USA) to those who are brand loyal. I can't really see it making much of a dent anywhere else.
To be honest, the best solution would be to integrate something like the GEAR4 BluEye into an ordinary iPod, so you have your music player with up to 80GB of storage.. and can make/receive calls with your ordinary phone via the headphones (which could also be wireless). Best of both worlds. If Apple did this I'd expect it to fly off the shelves because most phones now have Bluetooth. I might even go for a superslim, basic, phone and an iPod then.
Jonathan Morris
Editor, What Mobile magazine - the UK's leading mobile phone magazine
www.whatmobile.netforum.whatmobile.net
Twitter @jmcomms |
jmcomms
Joined: Mar 12, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: Jonathan Morris
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Here is the iPhone...
http://www.linksys.com/servle[....]ksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper
Which also shows that Apple won't even be able to use the name iPhone when they do launch something. Oh dear!
Jonathan Morris
Editor, What Mobile magazine - the UK's leading mobile phone magazine
www.whatmobile.netforum.whatmobile.net
Twitter @jmcomms |
Trentors
Joined: Jul 16, 2004
Posts: 88
From: Denmark
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Yes indeed.
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadget[....]e-its-cellphone-now-222393.php
I can't stand the “perfect phone “thing. Apple has NO experience in making phones and yes some phone manufacturers have lame old menus (Nokia I am looking at you) but most doesn't. I don't see where Apple will improve.
And the reason why iPod is so popular is there was no competition when they established the brand. The "famous" user-friendliness is not so perfect and Creative's players are better IMO. Also in Apples....they stole it.
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aremaboy
Joined: Nov 27, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Malang, Indonesia
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aremaboy, silence is golden! |
sapporobaby
Joined: Sep 14, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Finland. Kuwait maybe :)
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@jmcomms,
You seemed to come off a bit offensive when I am quite sure that I did not approach you that way. In fact, I said that you had made a nice post. If you desire to be offensive, we can take it to PM and do it there. However, my point was more so about the end of life cycle that devices go through rather than a long life support system that many here think should exist. By all standards, the k800i, a nice phone, is old. Over 6 months. SE is not going to put that many resources towards future development or bug fixes if the phone is quite stable and for the most part it is. SE, as well as the other manufactures, put out a few upgrades, fix a bug or two and then move on to the next best thing.
When I write a post I tend to be very succinct and to the point as I assume, probably wrong in retrospect, that many to most have a grasp of basic concepts, points, ideas, etc..... so I get right to the point and say my piece. If this made you offensive, then my bad, if not then so be it. Life will go on.
@trentors,
I will get back to you later when I have the time or inclination.
*edited on a Mac of course. Mac: There is no substitute*
N82(YES), iPhone 3G, Shure es530, Nikon D300, more stuff. No more SE stuff, why am I still here? |
night_66
Joined: Jul 29, 2005
Posts: 202
From: Sweden
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R1GB001 <-- This firmware IS not released at SE service points ..
I was at Sony Ericsson´s Experience Center in Lund in Sweden they flashed my phone with R1ED001 !!! not with R1GB001 as you mentioned in the main topic !!! And my phone is UNBRANDED ... |
Trentors
Joined: Jul 16, 2004
Posts: 88
From: Denmark
PM |
Quote:
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On 2006-12-18 16:52:56, sapporobaby wrote:
@trentors,
I will get back to you later when I have the time or inclination.
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Well I feel much honored. Whenever it fits your highness, is fine by me. |
jmcomms
Joined: Mar 12, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: Jonathan Morris
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Quote:
| You seemed to come off a bit offensive when I am quite sure that I did not approach you that way. In fact, I said that you had made a nice post. If you desire to be offensive, we can take it to PM and do it there. |
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I don't think I've said anything offensive. I've merely given an opinion and justified myself when questioned (namely the Apple vs Windows bit). I certainly don't intend to start an argument, or begin a war in private email!
I will say that I don't believe that a hardware platform is 'old' after 6 months (and, if anything, it's actually a lot older as it was shown off at the start of the year to the press and would have been in development for even longer). Nokia, Motorola, Sendo (in particular, even though they're no more), Sony Ericsson and the others all develop platforms to use for years.
Pick the correct chipset, and there's nothing to stop you adding a bigger screen, more memory, a better camera or a faster processor. The successor the K800i could easily use the same platform but still have a 5 megapixel sensor and graphics accelerator for VGA video capture.
Car makers design platforms with a lifetime of up to 10 years. Imagine if they changed them every 6 months!! |
sapporobaby
Joined: Sep 14, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Finland. Kuwait maybe :)
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@jcomms,
I agree with you about hardware having a long shelf life, but remember as I stated, I was referring to phone "years". The problem is that consumers demand new and improved every few months. I was reading in an article where Nokia has a goal to release new product lines at least every six months. You made a great point about the underlying core, i.e. software, maybe the hardware to an extent. Retooling a factory to reproduce new designs would be costly and in the end consumers would suffer. So, what they do it introduce a model. Let it sell for 6 months, give out upgrades for firmware and then they move on. This is the entire point of my original post regarding this. In phone "years" (if I can use this term), the k800i is old. It was an industry leader, but now it is beyond SE's life cycle, and probably marketing cycle. I do not see as many ads for it as before. With this being said, SE will most likely not devote more time and energy into updating software, or utilize additional resources on a phone that has reached its shelf-life. If you will, compare how much the k800i costs now as to how much it was when it first came out.
*edited on a Mac of course. Mac: There is no substitute*
N82(YES), iPhone 3G, Shure es530, Nikon D300, more stuff. No more SE stuff, why am I still here? |
jmcomms
Joined: Mar 12, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: Jonathan Morris
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The K800i might not be on the TV commercials, but they're promoting it through the retail network which means it's being pushed in store. Lots of deals, the silver 'Bond' edition etc.
The W850i is another K800i platform phone, and that is being pushed heavily (along with the whole Walkman family). As a magazine, we're told in advance of ad campaigns. The K800i was around the WTA tournament, and straight after SE launched its new brand identity and Walkman campaign. Rest assured, it will die down a bit in January and then they'll be pushing something else. Advertising doesn't necessarily reflect product development of course!
I still have to say you are wrong about the K800i being old. As a phone perhaps it is looking dated to you and me, but not the underlying hardware which is in its infancy or to customers who are in an 18 month contract and looking to upgrade from a K750 or Nokia N70 etc.
Nokia will churn out phones every month, but they don't build a whole new platform for it (if they did, they would make no money on the kit they sell). The N95 is quite different, with a brand new battery being used at the same time. Most Nokia handsets (and SE for that matter) share things like batteries and screens to enable bulk purchasing. Look at when Nokia had its absolutely AWFUL 128x128 pixel 4,096 colour screen that was installed in every phone for about two years!
One of my favourite SE phones is the W810i for size and usability, and the K800i still takes better pictures than anything on sale today bar the 5 megapixel LG (which is a crap phone and was sold in limited numbers for about a month). Even the 5 megapixel N95 doesn't take indoor/nighttime photos as good as the 3.2 megapixel K800i because the sensor is too small (thus over amplified noise) and the flash is too weak.
Jonathan Morris
Editor, What Mobile magazine - the UK's leading mobile phone magazine
www.whatmobile.netforum.whatmobile.net
Twitter @jmcomms |
frozenwaffles
Joined: Jan 08, 2003
Posts: 122
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back on topic people...
has anyone got thei new R1G firmware??? |
Rookwise
Joined: Mar 22, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: UK. Phone:Samsung Galaxy A54 5
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I installed R1EG001 from Wotanserver about 4 hours ago and I've lost the Play Now icon.
Didn't put a tick in the box to select for the Wotan client to disable it either.
Have tried to reinstall R1EG001 from Wotan and made sure that the Disable Play Now is not selected but the Play Now feature hasn't reappeared.
Have contacted Wotan but can't get any reply at all 
Now my menu looks like that of a branded handset and I'm not happy at all 
I tried sniffing coke once but didnt like it. The bubbles kept going up my nose  | |
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Posted: 2006-12-17 19:38
