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Sony Xperia Rumours 2012 |
randomuser
Joined: Sep 13, 2011
Posts: > 500
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On 2012-06-09 15:58:44, Shino03 wrote:
Why can't Sony manufacture their own CPU chipsets when they are capable of developing them? As far as I know, the quadcore CPU in PS Vita is made by Sony together with toshiba and IBM. If I were them, I would ditch Qualcomm which had always given them old chipsets.
[ This Message was edited by: Shino03 on 2012-06-09 15:04 ]
+1
Or they could buy ST-Ericsson  | |
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razec
Joined: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: Pearl of the Orient Seas
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On 2012-06-09 16:30:12, randomuser wrote:
On 2012-06-09 15:58:44, Shino03 wrote:
Why can't Sony manufacture their own CPU chipsets when they are capable of developing them? As far as I know, the quadcore CPU in PS Vita is made by Sony together with toshiba and IBM. If I were them, I would ditch Qualcomm which had always given them old chipsets.
[ This Message was edited by: Shino03 on 2012-06-09 15:04 ]
+1
Or they could buy ST-Ericsson
Didn't ST-Ericsson simply rehash the ARM architecture just as Qualcomm does? in fact ST-Ericsson SoCs are using Mali GPUs - the defacto GPU used for refereince ARM SoCs, while qualcomm is using the technology they acquired from AMD a couple of years ago. and also PSVita is using the same quad core A9 lke the GSIII with same GPU as "the new iPad". and AFAIK Sony would need a fabrication company like TSMC/Samsung or perhaps GlobalFoundries to produce their own designed chips, nevertheless I agree that, if Sony, with the help of toshiba and IBM could produce a die shrunken, low power Cell broadband engine(which is a very unique and powerful architecture of its own) to run efficiently to a smartphone, I think they'll have a winning bet against HTC and Samsung that would stay superior even for the next few years.
[ This Message was edited by: razec on 2012-06-09 16:17 ] ~19 years at Esato |
HxH
Joined: Dec 26, 2008
Posts: > 500
From: GMT+7
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FYI,
Samsung is now partner up with GlobalFoundries to produce their 32nm HKMG chipset for Galaxy S3, may not possible for Sony.
Samsung already made investment in their next-gen plant as well, report quoted it as 20nm process
TSMC is struggle in low-yield rate in 28nm process, with large order from Qualcomm
STMicro one hand in ST-E joint venture is 32nm capable but I don't think they will ready to compete in time.
What is other possible options
Intel could possibly take this chance? of course, not produce but selling their own design Medfield's chipset?
Myself, I really wish Sony could open they own plant to become number one Samsung's challenger in droid-sphere,
but recent years of red ink and money matter as you may all know could prevent this in next few years.
unless to work in co-production with some other company.
[ This Message was edited by: HxH on 2012-06-09 18:48 ] SONY x Sexy x Sleek x Solid x Stunner x Stylish : Nozomi/Kagura with Love. |
smclion102
Joined: Aug 12, 2010
Posts: > 500
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On 2012-06-09 17:58:48, aurelius wrote:
On 2012-06-08 21:01:29, smclion102 wrote:
On 2012-06-08 20:42:24, aurelius wrote:
Hayabusa = Aug/September!
HOW you Know THIS??  
3 mths after Japan release!
HOW you Know THIS?? again???  |
djin
Joined: Jun 13, 2007
Posts: > 500
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Well i think it wont be out before august. Even if it was announced on the 20th of june, then having a minimum of 1-2 month time to release is expected + delays since its typical  , and when they announce something for a quarter, it really means end of that quarter or even early next quarter.
Xperia T + N 96 R.I.P Desire  |
razec
Joined: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: Pearl of the Orient Seas
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On 2012-06-09 19:47:50, HxH wrote:
FYI,
Samsung is now partner up with GlobalFoundries to produce their 32nm HKMG chipset for Galaxy S3, may not possible for Sony.
Samsung already made investment in their next-gen plant as well, report quoted it as 20nm process
TSMC is struggle in low-yield rate in 28nm process, with large order from Qualcomm
STMicro one hand in ST-E joint venture is 32nm capable but I don't think they will ready to compete in time.
What is other possible options
Intel could possibly take this chance? of course, not produce but selling their own design Medfield's chipset?
Myself, I really wish Sony could open they own plant to become number one Samsung's challenger in droid-sphere,
but recent years of red ink and money matter as you may all know could prevent this in next few years.
unless to work in co-production with some other company.
[ This Message was edited by: HxH on 2012-06-09 18:48 ]
Intel has the best fabrication facilities of all Semiconductor manufacturers around the world, but imho Medfield chipset < ARM when it comes to efficiency and heat dissipation. let alone GPU performance.
[ This Message was edited by: razec on 2012-06-10 09:12 ] ~19 years at Esato |
djin
Joined: Jun 13, 2007
Posts: > 500
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Sony will have to invest alot of money to have its own advanced fab process. Moreover the competition between qualcomm, nvidia, texas instruments and now samsung is too high, even intel is unable to penetrate it.
Its feasible for sony to have its own cpu design for a vita or ps3 because its used for years and they sell alot, but for a phone it needs to be updated every year and you need to convince and win over other manufacturers to sell them.
They could partner with ibm like how they do now for designing and use tsmc and global foundries for production which would be more economical. But that still doesn't get them integrated radio chips.
Xperia T + N 96 R.I.P Desire |
Xajel
Joined: Jun 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Bahrain
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@djin,
Actully Sony doesn't have to invest in fabs, they can outsource the production to another company and there's a lot, GlobalFoundries, TSMC, UMC, Samsung, IBM and lately Intel. even Qualcomm and TI don't have fabs, fabs are expensive to build and maintain... Qualcomm and TI design and develops the chipset and then outsource the production to other companies mainly TSMC...
Samsung have their own designs and development and also their own fabs. but they produce so many models with different market segmentation that they can't design and develop an SoC for each one, so they use some other SoC from other vendors like Qualcomm for example...
Apple design and partly develop their own SoC and partner with Samsung to finalize the development and then manufacture the SoC... because Apple have very high volume and very low segmentation they can afford it, and it's better for them. so they have a constant platform where they can develop and optimize, but incase of Sony it's not that much affordable and logical they don't have that much of a volume to afford all the costs and also they have a lot more products segmentation to fill...
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motvikt
Joined: Jun 03, 2009
Posts: > 500
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On 2012-06-10 14:45:15, djin wrote:
Sony will have to invest alot of money to have its own advanced fab process. Moreover the competition between qualcomm, nvidia, texas instruments and now samsung is too high, even intel is unable to penetrate it.
Its feasible for sony to have its own cpu design for a vita or ps3 because its used for years and they sell alot, but for a phone it needs to be updated every year and you need to convince and win over other manufacturers to sell them.
They could partner with ibm like how they do now for designing and use tsmc and global foundries for production which would be more economical. But that still doesn't get them integrated radio chips.
You dont need your own fab process to make chips. Most big companies dont even have factories, AMD, nvidia qualcomm etc. Sony could maybe cooperate with IBM to design the chips and with ST-ericsson for the modems.
As it is now Sony really needs to do something if the want to be able to compete in the very high-end market. Samsung will always have an edge with their own socs and HTC have their close relation with qualcomm
edit. Damn Xajel, you were faster 
[ This Message was edited by: motvikt on 2012-06-10 14:36 ] |
djin
Joined: Jun 13, 2007
Posts: > 500
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@Motvikt,
Actually amd has its own fab which is called global foundries. Also, if sony made one more soc, it needs to have a big advantage over the competitors, and it needs to sell well to have proper developer support. Otherwise even if they did manage edge over the the competitors, if it didnt sell well its going to be a big disadvantage to consumers due to lack of developer support.
@Xajel,
True, but will it be any good if sony invests so much money now to co develop their own soc which will be regarded as high end for a year, and barely selling it? Even if they do put it in their next high end, if it sells like how their present high end devices do, then it will just be a big loss for them. I think for now they should make use of the best available resources, and up their sales. Once they become profitable and have a bigger fan base, they will be able to develop their own soc and use it efficiently as then they will have more dev support, more sales and better advantage at marketing.
--
I too want sony to make their own soc, which would give much more advantage to them in the long run, but for now it just seems wishful thinking. They even sold their 49% shares of lcd plant to samsung and now outsource it because its cheaper for them..
Xperia T + N 96 R.I.P Desire |
HxH
Joined: Dec 26, 2008
Posts: > 500
From: GMT+7
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Global Foundries is a electronic investment company from Middle East, not sure if they come from UAE.
AMD used to be their major client before inside-management shake up, deals had been collapsed and Samsung kick in.
Sony even sells stake back Sharp (SDP) and Samsung in both LCD venture.
As we all know, they're now part as Japan Display and also outsourcing investment to Taiwan display manufacture AUOptronics.
[ This Message was edited by: HxH on 2012-06-10 16:01 ] SONY x Sexy x Sleek x Solid x Stunner x Stylish : Nozomi/Kagura with Love. |
motvikt
Joined: Jun 03, 2009
Posts: > 500
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@djin
like HxH said, amd has sold their stake in global foundries and are now without fabs |
Xajel
Joined: Jun 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Bahrain
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@HxH
GlobalFoundries was a spin-off AMD's fabs, they ( AMD ) spin-off their fabs to a seperate company ( Joint venture ) between AMD and Mubadala ( investment company from UAE ), at first the AMD stack was 51%, but AMD slowly sold it's stack to Mubadala untill they sold everything rendering AMD to a fabless company and GlobalFoundries now is fully controlled by Mubadala... in the meanwhile AMD used GlobalFoundries first as their only silicon manufacturer for CPU's along with another manufacturer (UMC, was also in partnership with AMD before the spin-off and IBM a technology partner), but when they created their new low power CPU's they used TSMC to manufacturer them...
AMD also makes GPU's since they bought ATI, all GPU's are made in TSMC...
The different is AMD was only manufacturing SOI type of simiconductors, UMC was also manufacturing this type along with IBM... GPU's used Bulk-Silicon manufacturing which AMD doesn't have ( or not enough volume ), so they kept it in TSMC specially that TSMC is very well experienced in this type.. almost the second more experienced manufacturer after Intel...
All SoC are made with Bulk Silicon method, there's several sub-types optimized for specific purpose like High-performance, low-power, Ultra-low power, Ultra High Performance... normally SoC uses ULP to have the lowest possible power consumption... higher sub-types while they offer higher performance ( higher clock speeds ) but they consume more power also...
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djin
Joined: Jun 13, 2007
Posts: > 500
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Even thought we are slightly off topic, it was nice piece of info that i got from everyone  ..
I hope sony does pull it together and wow us all. They did say they would focus more on hardware innovations, hopefully it doesnt mean just prettier hardware.
Xperia T + N 96 R.I.P Desire |
Xajel
Joined: Jun 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Bahrain
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On 2012-06-10 16:42:51, djin wrote:
@Xajel,
True, but will it be any good if sony invests so much money now to co develop their own soc which will be regarded as high end for a year, and barely selling it? Even if they do put it in their next high end, if it sells like how their present high end devices do, then it will just be a big loss for them. I think for now they should make use of the best available resources, and up their sales. Once they become profitable and have a bigger fan base, they will be able to develop their own soc and use it efficiently as then they will have more dev support, more sales and better advantage at marketing.
--
I too want sony to make their own soc, which would give much more advantage to them in the long run, but for now it just seems wishful thinking. They even sold their 49% shares of lcd plant to samsung and now outsource it because its cheaper for them..
It's good, but only if they were very sure for their success and sell enough phones that have this chip...
Having your own design helps very much having the perfect requirement and also lowering the price of the chip it self but this requires another investment in design and development of the chip.. and the cost of the D&D has to be covered by the saving they will get by using their design instead of another ready one...
The easiest way to have a custom design is to ask another maker of the SoC to build a customized version of a ready made SoC he has before... for example requesting from Qualcomm to have the exact same MSM8960 Pro but with another A9 core that can be used for idle time in order to save power... this is can be done and depends on the agreement Sony could have exclusivity for 1 year for example then Qualcomm can sell it to other customers... ( such conditions can lower the cost more than making the chip Sony-only product, as both of them will share the cost of the design and development )...
The main problem is not with Sony alone, but in Google as well on how they work with partners.. one of the main problems is that no one knows or have the source code before Google releases it to the public... so Sony and Samsung and HTC all will get the code in the same time as me an you !! except the company that will make the next Nexus...
Personally I prefer the idea of having all the contributes to the code to have the access, and when any part is finalized they will have it directly as an advantage of them for being a main partner/contributor or supporter to Android... and they can also work to prioritize the parts of the code to be done first, for example finish the radio/modem parts first in order for them to finalize it and send it for certification ( which takes very long time ), and in the mean while they work on other parts like UI and features and the partners work for their customization... and when that finished Google can release the code to the public so partners will need a little time to finalize the software and receive the first patches of the products so they can release it as soon as possible after the release of the code...
Google is already working hard on this part, but they need more time to fully make everything done as quickly as possible... I hope by the release of Jellybean we will be able to have all JB products after 3 to maximum of 6 months for all companiese...
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Posted: 2012-06-09 16:30
