| Author |
K850i vs N95 pic quality |
AbuBasim
Joined: Nov 04, 2005
Posts: > 500
PM |
On 2007-11-04 04:42:57, mib1800 wrote:
Well, N95 has a 3 level sharpness setting.
Both the recent HTC-produced phones I have owned (i-mate JASJAM) and still own (TyTN II) give much better results when the sharpness setting is set to minimum. I uploaded one JASJAM sample here. Look at the full size here and notice the absence of artifacts from noise reduction and sharpening. It's hard to believe that this came from a CMOS camera, until you try a few low-light photos . . . Also, the JASJAM has a 2 MP camera. Pity that the TyTN II's 3 MP camera doesn't scale upward equally in quality as in pixel quantity . . .
_________________
Nokia 6600 -> K700i -> K750i -> i-mate JAMin -> P990i -> i-mate JASJAM -> P990i -> E61i -> HTC TyTN II + i-mobile 902
[ This Message was edited by: AbuBasim on 2007-11-04 04:06 ] |
|
|
elementz
Joined: Aug 27, 2004
Posts: 56
PM |
After reading all the posts here, I think all of us have already formed an unchangeable impression of both phones, and nothing said will ever change our impressions. Also, we selectively post pics which seem to justify our case.
So i also took the liberty of posting some comparisons below:
I am sure all of you have seen enough pics to know which is N95 and which is k850i.
All the comparison pics at the various review websites aren't conclusive. We are only speculating what type of settings/firmware the testers are using, not sure whether they are biased to start with, and also not sure whether they know how to use the settings of the cameras properly.
The photos of k850i at mobil.cz/phonearena is really bad. But I have seen better pics taken by other users which are much better than those from mobil.cz/phonearena.
Although I personally prefer the camera of k850i, but given a choice, I will still buy the N95 due to its features, and of course good enough camera. If I only want a phone with very good camera, I will get the i-mobile 902 instead (I have uploaded some pics from i-mobile 902 at the photo section). |
mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
PM |
Apart from grains and noise, the other problems with K850 is the unnatural color it produce and it persistant "white haze" in most shots. This makes the K850 photo seems very washed out and without depth.
I think K850 photo is good for printout in small size (or shrunken view on PC screen). Printing bigger size pict or viewing on bigger LCD would immediate shows the adverse artifacts of K850 picts.
|
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
PM, WWW
|
either phone's images are gonna reveal their flaws close up. If you want to set either of these camera phone photos as even 1800x1300 desktop backgrounds, they are going to reveal their flaws badly. On the other hand either camera's images will look fine on such a large desktop with noiseware or similiar filtering applied.
Likewise with printing at A3. Neither of these phones will print at such large size without revealing their flaws. The differences are so minor (both the positive and negatives of each) that they don't make any real difference.
The more I look at both camera's images, the more I come to the conclusion that there is very little overall difference. One may be better in this area, the other in that area, but practically speaking there is not much between them at all.
I still prefer the extra detail (even given the extra noise) of the K850. The colour is easy to correct, and the hazziness you notice in the K850 outdoor pics is over exposure (in contrast to the N95 which can tend to be under-exposed). So the answer is to take K850 outdoor pics one or two exposure steps under zero. You will then have less noise, more detail, perfect exposure and only the colour to correct in photoshop.
For those who just wanna take photos and go straight to the nearest photo kiosk to print up to 8x10, will probably prefer the N95. But those with a more artistic photographic bent will likely prefer the flexibility of the K850.
In just about every digital camera I've ever owned, especially low to mid range units, there will be many circumstances where the onboard light meter cannot accurately gauge the necessary exposure. On EVERY camera, including DSLR's, I've found the colour often needs correcting (not as bad as the purple red's of the K850 granted but still some correction required)
It's standard practice for photographers to adjust exposure and colour on shots with which they are not happy with the cameras performance. Because the K850 red problem is consistant, it would be possible to batch process K850 shots and very easily deal with the purple red's issue.
|
mongoose3800
Joined: Nov 29, 2005
Posts: 416
From: Australia
PM |
Well, loyal K850 supporters are going to like these N95 samples. Look at the images here at full res: http://www.allaboutsymbian.co[....]mple.php?phid=443679312&page=1 . Now, these show real life use of N95 and just how much processing is going on. A couple of the shots show really bad bluring of trees and so on. |
DarKMaGiCiaN
Joined: Aug 25, 2006
Posts: > 500
PM |
did you see this
 |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
PM, WWW
|
On 2007-11-04 07:56:45, mongoose3800 wrote:
Well, loyal K850 supporters are going to like these N95 samples. Look at the images here at full res: http://www.allaboutsymbian.co[....]mple.php?phid=443679312&page=1 . Now, these show real life use of N95 and just how much processing is going on. A couple of the shots show really bad bluring of trees and so on.
That's my main beef with the N95 and why I would take the K850 over N95 (in terms of camera performance anyway). At times the water colour affect and blurring of details is really quite bad. The K850 rarely suffers this sort of problem.
It would be nice if SE had done something about the purple red's, but imho this is far less serious than the regular lack of detail displayed by N95.
|
mongoose3800
Joined: Nov 29, 2005
Posts: 416
From: Australia
PM |
I just had a good look through the photos at http://www.allaboutsymbian.co[....]mple.php?phid=443679312&page=1 . They all certainly gave a heap of points back to the K850. Like others, I now actually don't know which camera produces better shots. Each is so very capable of creating poor shots. But each can create better shots than the other in different situations. I'm so glad I don't have to sell these phones to people as I would not be able to look anyone in the eye and tell them the cameras are any good. It's actually ridiculous that there is so much controversy over the poor quality of the images created by the top models of two companies. I'm so glad I still have about another 6-12 months before I do my next upgrade. Maybe, surely, something better will come along by then. I still think it is possible to get much better quality out of a camera phone. Bigger lens and sensors could be fitted in. Just look at the size of some of the Sony Cybershot Cameras some of them aren't really that much thicker that an phone. |
Amp34
Joined: Nov 03, 2007
Posts: 4
PM |
Excellent post Max Wedge.
What we have to remember is that these camera phones are just phones with cameras in the back, they are not going to compete with a DSLR or even a mid/good P&S. For what they are they are very good at what they do. |
spikeyjac
Joined: May 30, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: west yorkshire! Mobile: w890i
PM |
What happens when you put a golf tee in a water fountain 
I could never have taken pictures this good on my n95:
Has reduced the quality a little though uploading them here, as they were too wide 
feedback
(+10 -0)
|
AbuBasim
Joined: Nov 04, 2005
Posts: > 500
PM |
On 2007-11-04 17:31:34, Amp34 wrote:
Excellent post Max Wedge.
What we have to remember is that these camera phones are just phones with cameras in the back, they are not going to compete with a DSLR or even a mid/good P&S. For what they are they are very good at what they do.
@Amp34,
You're new here. In case you missed these, please have a look at the snaps here and here.
_________________
Nokia 6600 -> K700i -> K750i -> i-mate JAMin -> P990i -> i-mate JASJAM -> P990i -> E61i -> HTC TyTN II + i-mobile 902
[ This Message was edited by: AbuBasim on 2007-11-04 19:56 ] |
mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
PM |
On 2007-11-04 07:22:56, max_wedge wrote:
I still prefer the extra detail (even given the extra noise) of the K850.
Most of the time the noise in K850i photos are just noise. It looks like BIG speck of dust on the photo which contributes nothing to detail. (There are many example photos in the mobil.cz, gsmarena, smape review). Unlike the noise we see in N93 photos, the K850 noise looks more like sensor defect (or results of cheap and coarse sensor)
The colour is easy to correct, and the hazziness you notice in the K850 outdoor pics is over exposure (in contrast to the N95 which can tend to be under-exposed).
This is so funny. Let see what you need to do with K850 photo to make it acceptable:-
1. Correct color
2. Correct over-exposure
3. Remove noise
4. Sharpen image
In case you forget (with your pre-occupation to defend the K850  ), for most people the cam phone is a point-and-shoot device.
btw: I dont see my N95 photos underexpose. Just dont think because K850 photo over-exposed then naturally N95 is under-exposed.
So the answer is to take K850 outdoor pics one or two exposure steps under zero. You will then have less noise, more detail, perfect exposure and only the colour to correct in photoshop.
Are you really sure about that?? Maybe you can ask your fellow se defender plankgatan to do that and post the result here. Since we know for a fact he tweaks the K850 settings before taking pictures. Unfortunately he has this great phobia about posting his "amazing" photo in full-res. Come to think of it, I havent seen many picts of K850 posted in this forum is full-res. Wonder why? 
|
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
PM, WWW
|
go back through all the picture threads, you will see that very few people bother posting full res images. Are they also afraid? What about the K750 picture thread, the same, very few full res images, yet no one was ashamed of K750.
As for underexposure of N95, I make my statement on the basis of observation not assumption. In the links you provided me, many direct comparisons of K850 to N95, the K850 pics are over-exposed and the N95 are under exposed to an equal degree. If one purposefully under-exposes the K850 pictures (to reduce the washed out affect), you also get back detail lost to the usual over-exposure, and since you are using a lower exposure, a lower ISO is automatically selected by the camera therefore reducing noise as well.
With N95, if you over expose to reveal detail lost to darkness, the camera will increase ISO therefore increasing noise. Atleast with the K850 you have more control.
|
Dogmann
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: London England
PM |
Hi all
Sorry but after 15 pages this thread is just going over the same things again and again. It's like trying to convince people that Black is White and White is Black. For the sake of every ones sanity can't we all just agree to disagree and as i said on page 13 if you prefer SE buy SE and if you prefer Nokia buy Nokia as we are never going to get anyone to agree here before the end of time.
Marc
_________________
Nokia E61, 2gb Sandisk, Fring, Tom Tom 6
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-11-05 10:43 ] |
plankgatan
Joined: May 20, 2007
Posts: > 500
From: Sweden fur alle
PM |
thats what im talking about...N95 CANT SHOOT GOOD LOW LIGHT/NIGHT, INDOOR PICTURES.......
this pictures looks like CRAP........he he...(do you realy think they have the same sharpness like k850 indoor pictures ?????
k850 take MUCH better lowlight/night, indoor pictures, (with flash or whitout flash)......
here, how it suppose to look..(and YES, the picture looks good in full size to)....N95 sensor manage low light much worse then k850 sensor.
_________________
I  k850i,  w810i &  T28
[ This Message was edited by: plankgatan on 2007-11-05 11:10 ] |
|
|
Posted: 2007-11-04 05:02
