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SAD SE 2007 Portfolio-Hard to digest facts |
mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
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On 2007-10-22 01:47:06, max_wedge wrote:
Wel that's a matter of personal opinion I guess. Only the market will tell if you are right or wrong.
Personally I think it's a hot looking phone.
But with W960 selling at around the same price as the N95 8Gb would certainly dealt a death blow to W960. | |
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Dogmann
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
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From: London England
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@Max
It's not the fact that the P1 or W960 as you put
"even if it's features are a bit limited compared to Nokia finest"
It's the fact it's features are limited for a device launching in the late part of 2007 compared to all other manufacturers devices, even Motorola with their first UIQ3 device has much better spec's, OMAP2420 330mhz chip, 16m colour screen, VGA video recording @30fps, HSDPA to name just a few.
Yet here we are nearly in 2008 and SE are still using the same hardware as they announced for the P990 and other UIQ3 devices in 2005. No update to the hardware has occurred and this is what makes them mediocre however great the designs are.
If you look around the Forum it is not just Nokia fans that are now complaining about the lack of upgraded hardware but SE fans that are now expressing their disappointment.
Even the K850 has come under fire not just for the amount of bugs it has been released with but the fact that although the device has a new platform it is now slower than previous models as still has the same processor yet is far more processor intensive which results in a slower reacting device which is not good for a flagship product that is not a smart phone and should be fast.
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-10-22 13:24 ] |
max_wedge
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I am aware of the advanced features of the N95, but I have a K800 and I'm perfectly happy with my phone, so I can't see why I would necessarily be any less happy with the W960 which has more features I like such as a touchscreen (which N95 can't help me with so it's all for nought)
Because of my preferences for usability, the W960 appeals to me more than N95. Most of this comes down to the touchscreen factor, if I'm gonna spend more than twice what I spent on my K800, (N95 cheapest I've seen 1200AUD, K800 450AUD) then it has to have a touchscreen plain and simple. And PLEASE guys I am not saying every phone has to have a touchscreen, I'm only speaking of my own preferences here (and anyone else for whom touchscreen is important).
Yes you are right and I agree, I wish SE was more up to date in many areas. But also, in many of those instances for my needs N95 is way over kill, way to expensive, and STILL doesn't have a touchscreen.
I accept SE's faults, but I'm also a realist and I don't see it as such a crime to think that the W960 is a better choice (for me and those with similiar tates) than the N95. I'm not trying to make an absolute statement that SE UIQ's are better than Nokia or anyothing else. I'm only speaking on my own behalf.
Neither do I see it as a crime to continue to patronise SE when they have the gear I like. Maybe you would like everyone to boycott SE, but I don't get that emotional about phone companies. I'll keep buying SE until they no longer satisfy me. If I end up buying the W960 or K850 and get a bug ridden handset I will take it back and demand a replacement until I get one that works. I'll also wait while all those with more money than I rush out and buy the newest phone available, and I'll watch the firmware threads and wait until the handset is stable enough for my liking. I did the same with K700, K750 and K800 and was never disappointed by either of those phones.
This doesn't make it right on SE's behalf, but as I see it the same is true of any OEM. I would never buy a phone that was just released. I would never buy windows in the first 6 months of a new version (I like vista, but am I running it? No). I would never buy the first make of car off the production line. Selfish? Maybe, but as I said I'm a realist. I don't care if manufacturers bring out dodgy shit, I'll make sure that when I buy I buy something that has been tested to the hilt, by the market if necessary, and I'll always be happy with my tech.
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DragonEye
Joined: Sep 26, 2002
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From: Canada
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Max it's really not about the hardware... i like UIQ3... i got it to work really well .. i've always argued that processors speeds aren't that big of a deal... optimized and well designed software is the main driving force IMO.
i never cared that my p1i never had a 5.0 cam... i didn't need built in gps...
even with the ram on the new n95 i think the Uiq3 touchscreen/key setup is a better mix if you were to compare them..
the problem with UIQ3 though is that the software even though it's stable now isn't really that good.. it's quite horrible in some places... the mailbox for example is terrible, lagging slow, and not user friendly at all..virtually unusable IMO.. for a person like me that sends about 2500 sms a month... it was a deal breaker...... i've had just about every phone dumb or smart SE/nokia/moto etc... and the UIQ mailbox is the worst i've ever used in terms of performance which is sad.. my k790 mailbox is fine.. even my iphone is good...
sure the w960 looks pretty but it'll suffer from the same issues that the p1i has today.... i can't support any half-assed products being released anymore... same reason why i blasted the n95
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[ This Message was edited by: DragonEye on 2007-10-22 15:11 ]
[ This Message was edited by: DragonEye on 2007-10-22 15:13 ] |
mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
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max_wedge
Neither do I see it as a crime to continue to patronise SE when they have the gear I like.
You may also like to do or wear kinky stuff  but then that is none of our business. What's the point of you writing long essays on how good K850/W960 over N95 based on your own preferences? I think people are more interested in phone comparison based on common acceptable merits.
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Dogmann
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
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From: London England
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@Max
No one has said you have to like the N95 never mind own one and i really can't see what relevance the price of the N95 makes to a over year old dumb phone of course it will be cheaper.
What people are talking about is the simple fact that SE have not updated their screens or processors for a very long time. Why do you always have to compare SE to Nokia, just judge SE on their merits alone or lack of them.
If you are going to go for the W960 i am pretty sure it will be more expensive than even the N95 8GB, but i wouldn't think that would be any good for you either as it doesn't have a touch screen. Which is fine by me no one says you have to like or buy that either.
It's a bit like every one was more than happy to tell me how unnecessary HSDPA is yet now some SE devices have this we have SE users saying how brilliant it is to have it. I 'm sure if and when SE update their processors and screen's these will all of a sudden be brilliant as well.
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-10-22 20:14 ] |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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Whenever I try and discuss SE phones on their own merit, inevitably someone mentions N95 and what it can do. It's not me that starts these N95 comparisons.
I say such and such SE is a nice phone, then someone comes along argues the phone is obsolete because it doesn't have this or that feature set of that the N95 has.
all any of us are doing is discussing what are personal preferences. You can't discuss phones on an absolute value system. You can on hardware alone, but not on style or ergonomics or suitable features (everyone's needs for certain features differ) as these are open to interpretation.
You simply cannot say "phone x has more features therefore it is more suitable for everyone than phone y"
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max_wedge
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On 2007-10-22 21:08:25, Dogmann wrote:
What people are talking about is the simple fact that SE have not updated their screens or processors for a very long time. Why do you always have to compare SE to Nokia, just judge SE on their merits alone or lack of them.
I don't disagree that SE are behind in the processor and screen area, why does that mean I am not allowed to like the W960?? If the alternative (N95) had a touchscren and better UI and nicer styling (for my tastes), then I would be interested in it. You guys can't get that I AM NOT an SE fanboy. I say I'm not but you filter everything I say as if it was coming from an SE fanboy. But for me it's not about loving SE (who gives a shit they are just a company), but I do love their styling and UI, so until another phone company does it as well, I will keep finding SE phones appealing.
If you are going to go for the W960 i am pretty sure it will be more expensive than even the N95 8GB, but i wouldn't think that would be any good for you either as it doesn't have a touch screen. Which is fine by me no one says you have to like or buy that either.
I'm talking about the W960, which does have a touchscreen.
P1 in australia is between $200 and $400 cheaper than N95. So I'm sure W960 will compare well in price compared to N95 8GB
It's a bit like every one was more than happy to tell me how unnecessary HSDPA is yet now some SE devices have this we have SE users saying how brilliant it is to have it. I 'm sure if and when SE update their processors and screen's these will all of a sudden be brilliant as well.
I never said HSDPA wasn't better than UMTS, only that it wasn't enough of an advantage for me to consider the N95 or other HSDPA phones above and beyond the SE UI. As internet services that need HSDPA to be usable become more common, then of course I will be quite interested in HSDPA. Infact, while I don't miss it now, by the time I'm ready to buy the K850 I will be glad of it.
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[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2007-10-25 01:27 ] |
mario2004
Joined: Sep 16, 2006
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@Max I bothered to look thru your posts you've made ages ago and I must say you contradict yourself here and there. But I guess that's ok. Everyone will change his/hers opinion as time 'changes'. The thing is you change you opinion to make SE look particularly good when they clearly aren't. People like 'ARES' are very silent this days when it comes to bashing Nokia. You on the other hand are still trumpeting SE's "hi-end" phones. (if one can talk about SE and hi-end). Even more, you get very 'agitated' if one does put the 'facts on the table'. You'll meticulously give long and twisted answers trying to defend the undefendable. This things make people think, you are a 'true' SE fanboy - if you accept/like it or not. Sorry bud.
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Joined: Jan 12, 2007
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@mario2004
You're obviously a Nokia fanboy. There's nothing more in your arguments rather than suggesting "SE sucks, get a Nokia" and it's pretty obvious since it's all Nokia, Nokia, Nokia with you like some sort of psycho on a mission. It must be tiresome to do two things at once (convincing 1)SE sucks and 2)Nokia's a divine brand) when people like max_wedge already has a hard time doing just 1 thing, defending his brand of choice. You don't think my statement is true? Don't like to be branded a Nokia fanboy? Then stop branding others and have a civilized and intellectual discourse please.
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mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
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On 2007-10-25 01:03:24, max_wedge wrote:
but not on style or ergonomics or suitable features (everyone's needs for certain features differ) as these are open to interpretation.
BUT you are NOT!!!. One great example is your statement:- "N95 video rec is slightly better than K850". It is an undeniable fact that N95 video rec whoops K850 ass but yet you are still in denial.
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On 2007-10-25 08:37:28, mib1800 wrote:
On 2007-10-25 01:03:24, max_wedge wrote: but not on style or ergonomics or suitable features (everyone's needs for certain features differ) as these are open to interpretation.
BUT you are NOT!!!. One great example is your statement:- "N95 video rec is slightly better than K850". It is an undeniable fact that N95 video rec whoops K850 ass but yet you are still in denial.
Not to sound like I'm defending the K850 or anything since I'm quite disppointed with the Vid recording quality myself, but the 30 fps QVGA recording is actually just a notch below 30 fps VGA - spec-wise which is probably what max_wedge meant when he said 'slightly'. But we all know the real difference in quality between these two specs
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G-Izzat
Joined: Nov 15, 2006
Posts: 482
From: MY
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Seriously, aren't you guys tired of arguing?
This year, I have to admit, Sony Ericsson is pretty weak. But they came up with lots of solutions. Solutions for people who needs phones for what it is, not for people who is really in search of a phone with every features in the world.
Nokia has done quite well. The same as Sony Ericsson, they just made the same phone but with more features. N95 becomes N95 8GB. Surely everyone would know that Nokia has been in the phone business much longer than Sony Ericsson.
Sony Ericsson needs time. Nokia doesn't. Nokia knows what they want but Sony Ericsson are still looking for more interesting ideas to implement in their phones. |
Dogmann
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: London England
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@mode
Maybe you should of read what Max actually tried to claim instead of making your claims in support. It is 30fps VGA recording what it is not is DVD quality on this is it slightly below. Unlike what Max claims in this thread as he said
"VGA video, still crappy encoding, still a gimmick."
Which lets face it is no where close to the truth along with this from the wanted K850 VGA video recording thread
"The output is still poorly pixelated on movement and detail (particularly foliage), colour is as bad as the still camera, and tbh no single camera phone on the market yet has video suitable for displaying on a TV screen. The N95 cmos sensor doesn't do the vga resolution justice at all imho."
Which lets be honest whilst it may be in his honest opinion is just not supported by the facts is it. As i said above it may not be DVD quality but it is not far off.
He also continues to try and make his point with this statement
" I am arguing no phone on the market yet does useful video recording. K850 in my view doesn't need VGA recording as VGA recording is still just a gimmick."
Which is rather strange considering how these devices made news for being the first to offer this along with all the positive reviews and user experiences. Of first the N93 the first device to be able to offer this, and then the N93i and N95.
But this is his opinion and obviously he is entitled to it but to suggest what he meant is it is just below 30fps or DVD quality is just not correct. As if he had stated it was below DVD quality i would of agreed as i would imagine would everyone else. Unfortuantly this is not what Max has claimed which is why we have not agreed with him. If you are going to support what some ones opinion is and what they have said perhaps you should check exactly what that is first.
Also Mode don't think it is a little rich you accusing Mario of being a Nokia Fan Boy when you exhibit exactly the same if not stronger support for SE or are you an SE Fan Boy? and don't find being called one insulting?
Marc
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-10-25 13:24 ] |
Dogmann
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
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From: London England
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@Max
Yet again we are talking about the lack of advancement in SE devices and off you go at a tangent about the N95 and lack of Touchscreen and a UI you prefer no one has said you can't like the W960 or any of the other things that draw you to SE. Yet even you in the opening line agree that SE are behind in the processor and screen area just what is the point of the rest of this paragraph.
Max i don't know how you missed it but i was referring to the N95 8GB not having a touchscreen as i said you would prefer the W960 and the only point i was making was that i think the W960 will be as expensive if not more than the N95GB. Also that the W960 for the same or even slightly less has very old hardware when compared to the N95 8GB and I'm still not saying you have to like or buy the N95 8GB.
Marc
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-10-25 13:21 ] | |
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Posted: 2007-10-22 13:30
