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Sony Ericsson M600 |
intelegent115
Joined: Mar 01, 2002
Posts: 470
From: Slovenia
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@max_wedge: what is your criteria for a good camera?
I don`t get all this complains about the M600 lacking the camera. You people filled up 3/4 of all M600 threads all over not just esato. I am very happy that M600 won`t have a camera! (thank you SE) If you want a camera buy P990 or wait for the successor of M600 which is rumored that will have a camera.
I hope M600 will have a reasonable price, ifso it will sell very good cause i saw a lot of M600 threads and people really love this phone.. Also to tako into consideration that P990 is being delayed because of it`s new OS..
So when can we expect M600? | |
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below24
Joined: Jul 16, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: London
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The M600 should be pretty soon.
The phone was pretty bug free, freezing a few times but nothing like th P990.
It should come with the regulars, headset, charger, Memory card (64MB Ms Micro), Stylus (turqoise), manual, maybe a screen cleaning cloth.
Not sure how many stylus though, the P910i came with two and the M600 one is easliy lost! so should be two also.
Does any one know if the covers are interchangable?
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max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
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For many people the lack of camera is a complete non-issue, but for some a camera is absolutely required. For those people even though they may like the M600 a lot (I do) they still are forced to consider the P990 if they want a smart phone with camera.
Me I will be looking at the K800 for the 3.2MP camera. Being a photography enthusiast I really like the idea of having my camera with me at all times, so I always go for the best camera avalable as my first preference, any other choice comes after that. The opportunity cost is that I don't get a smartphone for a little longer yet, but that's just life. We have to make choices everyday, no one can have everything they want all the time.
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dazbradbury
Joined: Nov 24, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: UK - Derby/London
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If a camera is such a big issue, then buy a camera. Surely, an m600i, with a small digi-cam, is going to be comparable in overall mass and performance. Probably even with price. Am sure tiny low-megapixel camera's are pretty cheap.
Surely that is the solution? If you are a photography enthusiast you won't want the limited ability camera on a phone. Personally, i have phone in one pocket, camera in the other. But that's just me.
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max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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From: Australia
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why the flying f... do you think that saying I personally would not prefer the M600, is a critisicm of the phone? I think it's an excellent phone I'm not dissing it in any way whatsoever.
But now that camera phones are suitable for general photography, I see no reason to continue carrying around a separate camera. FOR ME that is, I don't care what you do. You can carry a hassleblad around if you like, I don't care. But for myself, having a camera and phone combined is a real bonus and I don't see why I should have to concede that I should buy the M600 AND a dedicated digital camera just to satisfy those who think camera phones only have poser value.
It's a crock of shit, camera phones (esp. with the K750 and beyond) are legitimate digital cameras. And as I said I would like smartphopne features, but I don't need them in a phone so badly that I would sacrifice the convenience of a camera phone (which already does email/internet/multimedia functions anyway).
If I could afford it as well as the K800, then I'd buy the damn M600, since I think it's a georgeous piece of kit and would make a great PDA even if I didn't use it as a phone, but I can't afford both so I will continue to look for a device that combines all my most important requirements in one device. Is that really that hard to understand?
BTW, small cheap dedicated digital cameras are inferior to the K750 camera, so your point about having a small extra digital camera being better than a camera phone simply doesn't stack up. You obviously have no idea how far progressed some camera phones are now.
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[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2006-03-17 05:23 ] |
dazbradbury
Joined: Nov 24, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: UK - Derby/London
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Yes. Yes it is.
Price of m600i + Price of 3.2MP digi cam = (roughly) Price of High End Phone such as P990.
That is one part of why your reasoning is hard to understand. Obviously for convenience purposes an integrated camera would be nice. But for the added quality of seperating devices I can't see why it would be an issue. Sorry.
Also, I didn't say you were "dissing" the phone at all. Just, in this discussion forum that we so happen to be, I was trying to point out a possible better solution to your problem. If you feel you have it all sussed out, then maybe a place of discussion is not appropriate for you. I just think, as a photography enthusiast (also?), that the options you get in a dedicated camera increase the functionality to a completely different level than i have seen in any camera phone.
This is obviously just my, humble, personal opinion. It was intended to aid you in your buying decisions over the next few months, not knock you in any kind of way. Feel free to ignore it.
EDIT: In response to the edited part of your message. I would back a 2 megapixel camera over the camera in the K750i. Why? Because of better lenses, dedicated hardware to allow for manual control of functions such as shutter speed and aperture, less barrel distortion due to bigger lens, bigger lens also meaning faster shutter speed can be used in the same situation....etc. I think any photogropher will tell you that. And yes, camera phones can be impressive, and very handy, but they are not there for serious photogrophers. Surely you can see that.
[ This Message was edited by: dazbradbury on 2006-03-17 05:42 ] |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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From: Australia
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okay fair enough, I over-reacted. The reason I did so is that it seems many people can't accept that camera phones are adequate for day to day photography. I am an enthusiast, I like to take pictures that can be printed, displayed on a computer etc. I don't care if they can't be blown up into poster size.
AS far as dedicated cameras go, for the cost of the M600 compared to the K800, well the M600 will be priced higher than the K800, so if I buy an M600 where's my extra money to buy a dedicated camera?
If I decide I can afford it and had to choose between P990 and M600+dedicated cam, then you're point is valid. However the important factor for me is that I have the best camera available within the context of a combined phone and camera. So while I see the point you are getting at, I hope you can understand that the issue of device convergence is quite important to me.
If I had two devices, then without a doubt there would be many situations where I would simply not have a camera on me, whereas I always have my phone with me. This is due to my lifestyle and my preferences for convenience etc. You may be happy carrying around two devices, but you can't argue that it is just as convenient becasue it's not.
As far as dedicated cameras having better features etc, this is a phallacy. The K800 has 3.2MP, cybershot menu system (and all the same menu features as cybershot digital camera), Auto focus, a proper inbuilt flash, exposure and white balance control, self timer, half press focusing, exif info on pictures etc. The K750 has all the same bar the inbuilt flash, is only 2MP and doesn't have the cybershot menu (although the menu is still more like a digital camera than a phone).
I have thought long and hard about the issues, and convergence, good camera, mediaplayer, internet, email, are my requirements in that order. If you can accept that for my own purposes my requirements are appropriate, then I think you can see why I am looking at the K800 and not the M600+dedicated camera.
Sorry to have over-reacted, and thanks for your input, I aprreciate it.  And to be honest, If I had the M600 + K800, that would be ideal. Then I'd be able to leave the M600 at home and still have a Phone+Camera on me at all times.
To edit in response to your edit, no I can't see that, sorry. In general you are correct, however the small digital cameras that are cheap enough and small enough to give the same economy of space in pockets as a single phone do not have the advantages you claim. I realise it is a fine line I draw, but if I were a professional photographer then I would agree wholeheartedly with your points but I'm only an enthusiast. I'm not even an ametuer photographer, but yet my enthusiast interests are still important to me, enough that I want a flexible camera (such as K750/K800 etc offer), but not enough that it overpowers my desire for convergence.
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[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2006-03-17 06:14 ] |
shaliron
Joined: Jan 15, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: Melbourne, Australia
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To all the whiners about the lack of a camera, go for the P990. Simple. If they did decide to put a camera into the M600 these would be the complications:
- It would rival the P990, which would obviously be a detrimental sales for SE.
- The business users that are its target group are lost. This is a rival to the E series from Nokia, which with the exception of one, have no cameras.
- The slimness of the phone would be compromised for the sake of a camera that is an unnecessary gimmick for the business consumers.
A wooden spoon is a spoon made from wood. Source: WikipediaWinner of: Best Thread (Huge SE Portfolio) 2007, Best Post (Huge SE Portfolio) 2007, Best Signature 2007, and 2nd Best Nickname 2007. |
dazbradbury
Joined: Nov 24, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: UK - Derby/London
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Quote:
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On 2006-03-17 06:59:15, max_wedge wrote:
okay fair enough, I over-reacted. The reason I did so is that it seems many people can't accept that camera phones are adequate for day to day photography. I am an enthusiast, I like to take pictures that can be printed, displayed on a computer etc.
.....
I realise it is a fine line I draw, but if I were a professional photographer then I would agree wholeheartedly with your points but I'm only an enthusiast. I'm not even an ametuer photographer, but yet my enthusiast interests are still important to me...
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This is where I got confused to begin with. I think you need to understand the \"ranking\" in any kind of hobby... I will point it out.
1) Professional
2) Semi-Professional
3) Enthusiast*
4) Normal User
5) Amateur
6) General Consumer
You see, enthusiasts are generally considered one step below semi-professional, at the height of the hobby, but without really making money from it. An enthusiast photographer for example would generally have an SLR, DSLR, semi DSLR, High MP fully manual digicam.
That is where my misunderstanding obviously lay.
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max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
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@shaliron, Well I hope you are not referring to me. I am not whining about the lack of camera. I simply stated my preference, what's wrong with that? And I've now had to defend my input twice against peeps who take my personal choice as a put down of the M600, or worse who think that camera phones are useless and therefore people who use them must be posers.
We who want cameras in our phones are perfectly entitled to say so and still contribute to this thread. So how about you pull your heads in and let everyone contribute with their thoughts and ideas rather than blaming people as whiners just because they say something you don't like.
If you want a thread were the topic is "thread for phones users who don't like cameras in phones" then start one and you can say anything you like. But the M600 thread is NOT a such a thread.
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[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2006-03-17 16:56 ] |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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From: Australia
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Quote:
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On 2006-03-17 17:49:57, dazbradbury wrote:
Quote:
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On 2006-03-17 06:59:15, max_wedge wrote:
okay fair enough, I over-reacted. The reason I did so is that it seems many people can't accept that camera phones are adequate for day to day photography. I am an enthusiast, I like to take pictures that can be printed, displayed on a computer etc.
.....
I realise it is a fine line I draw, but if I were a professional photographer then I would agree wholeheartedly with your points but I'm only an enthusiast. I'm not even an ametuer photographer, but yet my enthusiast interests are still important to me...
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This is where I got confused to begin with. I think you need to understand the "ranking" in any kind of hobby... I will point it out.
1) Professional
2) Semi-Professional
3) Enthusiast*
4) Normal User
5) Amateur
6) General Consumer
You see, enthusiasts are generally considered one step below semi-professional, at the height of the hobby, but without really making money from it. An enthusiast photographer for example would generally have an SLR, DSLR, semi DSLR, High MP fully manual digicam.
That is where my misunderstanding obviously lay.
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I'm sorry if my understanding is different to yours. In my mind an amatuer is a step below professional but I'm not going to argue with you over semantics. I really don't care and I'm sorry about the confusion.
Atleast I can see now why you were so adamant about it. But by your ranking there is no grade between a normal user (I am more advanced than that) and an enthusiast (I don't use DSLR or high MP cameras). It seems to me that your definition assumes that to be interested in photography more than the normal user, you need to have a high MP camera. That's where the confusion may be since I believe that even a vga camaera in the hands of a clever or artistic photographer can give excellent results.
I don't buy into this elitism over equipment. So you can think all you like that an enthusiast must have a high MP camera or not be entitled to call themself such. But as far as I'm concerned, by your chart I am an enthusiast, and yet strangely I still find my K750 a perfectly suitable device for persuing my hobby.
You can think that makes me a poorer photographer if you like I really don't care.
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dazbradbury
Joined: Nov 24, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: UK - Derby/London
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Quote:
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It seems to me that your definition assumes that to be interested in photography more than the normal user, you need to have a high MP camera.
... I believe that even a vga camaera in the hands of a clever or artistic photographer can give excellent results.
I don't buy into this elitism over equipment.
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Better equipment means more control to the photogropher, and less reliance on the equipment. That is where the distinction lies. I am not interested in MP count, but the equipment is a big deal. You may be able to take nice photo's in certain situations with any camera, but it's about being put in a situation and being able to create a nice photograph. It's about that creative side coming through.
This isn't elitism over equipment or MP count. Just, as the way things are, the more advanced equipment will have the highest current MP sensor. If you got a VGA DSLR from a few years ago, then yes, you would be able to be as creative as you like at VGA resolution.
Anyway, this isn't a discussion over camera's, this is a mobile phone forum, so I will stop there. Sorry to all the people that are actually interested in the M600i!
I for one can't wait for it's release!
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senninha
Joined: Jan 05, 2003
Posts: > 500
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thank you!!!  |
shaliron
Joined: Jan 15, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: Melbourne, Australia
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@max_wedge
I wasn't citing you in particular. To be honest when I said 'whiners' I meant the others previous to your post and in the W950 thread. I was just giving my opinion on the matter. Sorry 'bout any misconception.
A wooden spoon is a spoon made from wood. Source: WikipediaWinner of: Best Thread (Huge SE Portfolio) 2007, Best Post (Huge SE Portfolio) 2007, Best Signature 2007, and 2nd Best Nickname 2007. |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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From: Australia
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No worries mate. Just jumped to conclusions - just felt like I was being innundated with people who can't understand or accept that 1. want a camera in my phone, but 2. don't need it to be a "professional" camera.
But you are correct there are some whiners and I do agree that they should shut up. I just thought at first you were branding me as one, when I certainly hadn't intended to add to the whining! 
I won't bore anyone anymore with arguments about digital cameras - I'm starting a new thread "Are camera phones adequate as a replacement for dedicated digital cameras?"
Let's see what everyone else has to say....
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[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2006-03-20 04:13 ] | |
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Access the forum with a mobile phone via esato.mobi
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Posted: 2006-03-16 17:34
