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Sony Ericsson have not been innovative |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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On 2005-04-28 18:53:50, Yazan24 wrote:
Why do you believe that its only the innovation in technology that fuels a technological advance, it is also the concept. Once the concept has been fulfilled, it would make any improvements less groundbreaking.
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Either you haven't read or or haven't understood my previous posts, hence the above statement; I shall attempt to clarify.
Innovation does indeed drive technological advance, but it also results from technological advance; the two are intrinsicaly linked. The 'concept' is merely the smallest part of the overall innovation. Take the wheel for example; a stone circle with a hole in it 'fulfills the concept', yet innovation abounds still today, millenia fater the initial concept was fulfilled. The camera is another example; the basic cameras of the Victorians 'fulfilled the concept', yet cameras continue to change.
What you are singuarly failing to grasp is that 'the concept' is not immutable, it can and does change. Hence innovation. Technology is all about adapating to new circumstances and innovation drives that forward as well as being born from it.
A very simple example would be to look at the pen. Initially we could look at quills and see that they 'fulfilled the concept', yet the concept changed and we used fountain pens. The concept changed again and we used ballpoint pens and so on. The original concept is still there, only now there are numerous other 'concepts' alongside it.
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You know your being unreasonable by comparing floppy disks to smaller expanadable removable memory modules, theyre not in the same field, if you compared the first compact flash disk to the memory stick Id agree, but your pushing the comparison.
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I am? It was you who stated that you were meaning a general class of removeable storage media! Again we see a pick n' mix attitude with regards to your argument.
Contrary to your assertion a floppy disk and a memorystick are very much in the same field. They were both created for the same fundamental reason i.e. portable data storage. My assertion is that whilst the memorystick does perform a similar role it is still an innovative product because it is, to continue with your terminology, 'fulfilling a different concept'.
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I meant by General, as in THESE WOULD BE CLASSIFIED AS REMOVABLE MEMORY: -
COMPACTFLASH DISK, MEMORY STICKS, DUOS, SD, ETC.
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One wonders why you made this point in capitals and, even more strange, why you made it after having charged that my comparison was unreasonable.
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You are correct, however the measure of innovation, is the size of the leap, the carriage to the automobile was an improvement, but it was a HUGE LEAP and cannot be compared to the jump between the current 3G phones and the size of the K600.
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I'll come to the validity of your analogies in a moment, but first of all I would like to say something about your definition of innovation.
How would you measure such a leap? How can a leap be defined? Contemporaries can often not see the full potential of a technological innovation e.g. wireless communication being scorned by the Royal Navy. Your assessment relies upon contemporaries having hindsight, which obviously they cannot have, hence it is an invalid definition.
Now to your analogies ...
The carriage didn't actually lead onto the automobile quite as easily as you make out; there were a whole range of ideas and technologies thought of; experimented with and improve dupon before we had the internal combustion engine.
Early mobile phones available in the 1980's came in a briefcase. It took the better part of twenty years to be able to shrink them down enough to be able to fit comfortably in your trouser pocket. If one makes a comparative analysis between that reduction and the reduction in size of 3G handsets available a year or two ago and current 3G handsets one would no doubt find that there is a greater rate of reduction. One may also find that such devices have improved battery life and reception capabilities. All of this in a comparatively tiny space of time when compared with the initial length of time taken to get the initial handsets to that standard.
Innovation in this example has come through rapid improvement of the underlying technology.
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We agree on that, but what we disagree on is the magnitude of innovation, refining a camera in a phone isnt as innvoative as putting it there in the first place.
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Why? A camera could be made small enough to fit inside a packet of cigarettes in the 1960s. A camera could be made small enough to fit in one's pocket in the. A camera can be integrated into a watch. Is there anyting so special about making a camera small enough to fit inside a mobile phone and integrate it with the phone's OS? Is it really that much of a Herculean effort? I don't think so.
As I said, it is far more taxing to integrate a high quality camera with specialist lenses and supporting software/hardware, and which doesn't drain the power to any great degree. There is innovation.
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Surely youll agree with me that the invention of the camera, is far more innovative than the increase between 6-7 Megapixels. That is the point I am trying to get across.
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Not really because you are looking at it in far too linear a fashion. For you point A always leads to point B, which leads to point C.
You take no account of the technical difficulties involved in a particular process nor the financial, temporal or cultural constraints of such matters.
What is more innovative, a train or a water pump? A watch or a water wheel? A spacehip or a firework?
Innovation is not a linear force nor does it conform to your direct progression.
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If you wanted to compare the first mobile phone and the P910, which would be more innovative, clearly the first mobile phone because there was nothing like it before it.
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Really? What was the first mobile phone? What about a WWII field radio? What about voice being transmitted via radio in the 1920's? Innovation does not just 'spring into existence' as you seem to imagine, it is already present before it is discovered. If you look to how technology actually advances you would find that it does so through building upon what has gone before, it always has done and it always will do.
This 'degree of innovation' that you keep peddling is tripe. Innovation is innovation, one can't say that the space shuttle is more innovative than a toaster that can do muffins, they are both innovative. Trying to apply degrees to innovation is like trying to apply degrees to neckwear; a bowtie and a tie still go round your neck, but one is hardly likely to label one more 'neck attirish' than the other!
An innovation is just that, an innovation. There is no way to measure an innovation except by how well it translates on a personal level. If the motorcar had never caught on then I don't doubt that it would have been seen in a somewhat poorer light than it is. Trying to quantify innovation is extremely foolish, because one cannot do so for nayone other than one'se self. I am unaware of your background, but I shall assume a basic school familiarity with particle physics. Do you know how to create an artifical quantum singularity or how to detect one? It's possible, but such an innovation is completely meaningless to both you and I because it impacts relatively little on our everday lives.
Similarly the invention of the camera, whilst innovative no longer impacts upon our lives, it is a past event, which has been. It's effects, however, do impact us and continued refinement and alteration provide innovative new approaches to current paradigms.
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However there are smaller steps, as well but these are not as innovative as the larger leaps.
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This is perhaps a crucial point because it demonstrates quite aptly that you are focusing upon 'larger leaps' as being some sort of 'gold standard'. As before, who and what defines what these 'larger leaps' are?
Technolog increases at different rates and through different means. Without a full understanding of the processes and challenges involed as well as a full understanding of exactly how such a technology impacts upon people it isn't practical to label one advance as being 'larger' than another. We can come to an understanding of the former of course, but the latter is forever out of our reach, hence what we can say is that we believe something to be innovative on a personal level, but not as part of a sweeping generalisation.
S4K1S, the difference between the monochrome screens and the 16 Color screen is the monoscreen was limited in functionality and the T68 allowed backgrounds themes and lots of new possibilities,
Why this is relevant? Because as we increase from 16-64-256 we havent increased the functionality, we can view pics like we could before, the only difference is the quality.
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"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2005-04-29 01:32 ] | |
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mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
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imo, innovation should not just be about creating a new technology. It should encompass the entire business process.
Any company that stays in the top 10 within the industry is definitely innovative to a certain degree. Everyday, thousands of new innovations are created. There is definitely no shortage of innovations. I think the more relevant question today is how effective can the company exploit or use these innovations.
say 2 companies are selling 5MP phone but A sells 3 times as many as B. both A & B are innovative from the tech point of view, but A is definitely better in exploiting innovations in the area of production, supply chain and marketing.
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vanquish
Joined: Mar 20, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Wor Newcastle Phone: V600i
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On 2005-04-28 23:15:55, Yazan24 wrote:
Vanquish do your homework: -
Vanquish Says
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| He is setting his own boundaries, claiming that floppy disks arent removable storage (bollocks) |
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But Ive already said
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| You know your being unreasonable by comparing floppy disks to smaller expanadable removable memory modules, theyre not in the same field, |
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When you find a mobile device, PDA, Phone (not laptops) with a floppy disk, PM me. (That is what is meant by expandable removable memory, although a floppy disk is removable it doesnt expand the laptops memory beyond double its existing capacity like Memory sticks do.)
Vanquish Says
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| claiming that innovation has to be something brand spanking new and invented (again, bollocks), |
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But Ive already said
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| An innovation can also be taking an existing GENERAL product that is innovative in its own field, implementing it in another field. |
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Incase you didnt notice, existing doesnt mean brand spanking new.
Vanquish Says
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| claiming Sony Ericsson arent innovative (even more bollocks ). |
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But Ive already said
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| Sure they provide quality handsets, which have innovative aesthetics, but theyve never introduced a totally new innovative feature. |
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I said theyre innovative in aesthetics, and in other features, but theyve never introduced a totally new feature, thats what I said, learn to read.
Vanquish Says
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| Why say such things when you dont have the evidence to prove it? |
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The same could be said about you, and your post, whyd you say all those things, when the evidence provided is against you.
Dont say things when you dont have evidence to support your argument. 
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The facts are my friend.
Sony Ericsson are innovative. Floppy disks are removable storage and innovation does not have to be something brand spanking new.
Why are we arguing about these FACTS?
so you say Sony Ericsson have never offered anything brand spanking new and innovative.
THEN CHANGE THE NAME OF YOUR THREAD From Sony Ericsson have never been innovative TO Sony Ericsson have never introduced something brand new which has completely and radically changed our world, like the toaster...
[addsig] |
Wazuki
Joined: Aug 08, 2004
Posts: 280
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I would like to see such innovation as little oled screens instead of buttons- they would change their marking on arrows if you play, other languages lettrers if you change language. Or into digits if you input phone number. Also they would be nice if they had some kind of animation and if they made cool effects in standby mode. Thats what i call innovative for phone. Or the thing they made in japan- building main screen as speaker for both calling and music playing. Would love to see some new unscratchable light weighted bodies and more 3d screens. And detachable cameras or flashes. MMM... Guess i m dreaming too much.
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vanquish
Joined: Mar 20, 2003
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From: Wor Newcastle Phone: V600i
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What about a phone with 3d projection screen and holograms?
This is getting stupid.
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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On 2005-04-29 06:23:36, mib1800 wrote:
imo, innovation should not just be about creating a new technology. It should encompass the entire business process.
Any company that stays in the top 10 within the industry is definitely innovative to a certain degree. Everyday, thousands of new innovations are created. There is definitely no shortage of innovations. I think the more relevant question today is how effective can the company exploit or use these innovations.
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I have checked and there are no pigs flying through the sky, but I do agree with you. 
Innovation is not a narrow immutable process of 'getting something new'. Innovation comes through refinement and alteration of exisiting technologies and ideas and how they are applied to society.
Nokia were long not very innovative in releasing handsets that were almost exact replicas of one another. It wasn't just a case of the technology not changing, but also the fact that their business model did not reflect the technology nor where there any considerations for societal changes or demands.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
vanquish
Joined: Mar 20, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Wor Newcastle Phone: V600i
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Exactly what i am trying to say. 
Innovation can have many different meanings.
I think Yazan24 is trying to say that 'Sony Ericsson' haven't ever done something major and inventive for the mobile phone market, although 2 megapixel cameras, walkman mobiles et al for me is new and exciting.
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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On 2005-04-29 12:56:34, vanquish wrote:
This is getting stupid.
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It was stupid from the initial post.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
vanquish
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From: Wor Newcastle Phone: V600i
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goldenface
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
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S4k1s
Joined: Mar 09, 2005
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From: Sweden
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I think SE was really Innovative when they made the Bluetooth™ CAR-100. It changed my life forever! 
It was such a great Extraordinary Innovation!
It changed the way I looked at life, the way I looked at my self and others ... It really did, I promise!
Before I got my CAR-100 I was a lazy fat 1,9m 25 year old kid. But Now with the Innovative CAR-100 I found the meaning of life!
I started running after my CAR every day... 3 miles per day!
It is like a dog for me, we love each other. And as a + I now look like Arnold did in his glory days. 
The SE Bluetooth™ CAR-100 is a True Innovation that changed my life and my loved ones lives forever. |
whizkidd
Joined: May 14, 2004
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From: India
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We would like to see a pic of you with the CAR-100 which changed your life. 
T230 >> T610 >> Ngage QD >> N73 >> N85 >> Omnia HD >> And countless other review units |
S4k1s
Joined: Mar 09, 2005
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sachiel
Joined: Nov 09, 2002
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How about a celphone with a built in shocker. That for me would be very innovative.
Oh, has anyone here saw the SE phones in Japan? The k750 and w800 looks crap compared to them. |
S4k1s
Joined: Mar 09, 2005
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From: Sweden
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On 2005-04-29 15:09:06, sachiel wrote:
How about a celphone with a built in shocker. That for me would be very innovative.
Oh, has anyone here saw the SE phones in Japan? The k750 and w800 looks crap compared to them.
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You mean like a shocker that u use on the abs? That would be great! slim 6(8)pack then | |
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Posted: 2005-04-29 02:31
