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The Danish Mohammad cartoon row - what do you think? |
SCORPIONKING1982
Joined: Mar 11, 2003
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From: Leeswood
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Religion causes so much hate and trouble.
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I think thats a little unfair. Religion, followed properly is supposed to be peaceful. Its people who cause hate, they just misuse the religion to their own ends. The ten commandments state quite simply 'thou shalt not kill' yet people have used the cloak of christianity to justify wars over the centuries.
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joebmc
Joined: Jan 03, 2003
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From: Kent
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I think we all agree that the cartoon was inappropriate, right?
Do we all agree that the barbaric protests are inappropriate too?
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amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
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From: Doha, London, Tokyo, Shanghai
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I'm a Muslim and I say that they did perhaps over-react.
I say that threats were uncalled for.
It just happened because they felt they were being called out or discriminated against.
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solidsingh
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: india
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ok guys
to summarise this long thread we all agree that the cartoon is wrong and the riots were also wrong
message to everyone: if your gonna follow a religion - please follow it peacefully without harming others
if we all stuck to that the world would be a better place
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slattery69
Joined: Jan 03, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: north east england
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On 2006-02-06 17:59:49, joebmc wrote:
I think we all agree that the cartoon was inappropriate, right?
Do we all agree that the barbaric protests are inappropriate too?
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i d agree with this the cartoons were inappropriate and so was the barbaric protest. i d have had no problems if a group of muslims had gathered outside of the danish embassy saying that they were discussed by the cartoon in a peaceful way. i dont think anyone who have have minded this in fact i think alot of people who have had sympthy and a greater understanding of why the cartoon was inapproproate to muslims world wide.
sadly what the minority have done is segment relationships even further and probably stopped any sort of understanding or sympathy.
which is probably the greatest shame out of all of this |
joebmc
Joined: Jan 03, 2003
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From: Kent
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to summarise this long thread we all agree that the cartoon is wrong and the riots were also wrong
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I agree (seems a pretty open and shut case  )
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dealer3
Joined: Apr 11, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: London
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The Secretary-General of the Arab League, Amre Moussa said: 'Anti-Semitism is a crime, anti-Islam is freedom of expression. There has to be one standard.'
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absinthebri
Joined: Feb 11, 2004
Posts: 476
From: London, UK
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On 2006-02-06 18:22:14, dealer3 wrote:
The Secretary-General of the Arab League, Amre Moussa said: 'Anti-Semitism is a crime, anti-Islam is freedom of expression. There has to be one standard.'
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I agree.
[addsig] |
SCORPIONKING1982
Joined: Mar 11, 2003
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From: Leeswood
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On 2006-02-06 18:22:14, dealer3 wrote:
The Secretary-General of the Arab League, Amre Moussa said: 'Anti-Semitism is a crime, anti-Islam is freedom of expression. There has to be one standard.'
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Islam is the religion of all prophets. Muslims believe that all the prophets were sent to their respective peoples from God (Allah). They all had the same mission and message - guiding people to the right path.
The three revealed, monotheistic religions, Islam, Christianity, and Judaism, go back to Abraham. The prophets of these religions were directly descended from him - Moses, Jesus and others from Isaac, but Muhammad from Isma'il. It was Prophet Abraham who had established the settlement which today is the city of Makkah, and with his son IsmaŒil built the KaŒbah, which Muslims all over the world face when they pray.
Christians and Jews hold a special place in Islam. They are called the People of the Book (Ahl al-Kitab), since the original Torah and Gospel were also divinely revealed and they shared in the prophetic tradition. Islamic states have nearly always shown their religious minorities tolerance and respect and those communities flourished under Islamic rule. God says:
"...Those who believe (in the message of Islam), and the Jews, the Sabaeans, and the Christians - all those who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and act righteously - no fear shall come upon them..." [5:69]
Setting up the Islamic state in Madinah, Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) further warned:
"Whoever oppresses any Dhimmi (non-Muslim citizen of the Islamic state), I shall be his prosecutor on the Day of Judgment."
In setting up the Islamic state, Prophet Muhammad made it inclusive of the Arabian Jews and Christians. Their persons, properties, churches and synagogues were protected, freedom of worship was guaranteed, and they controlled their own community affairs with their own civil and religious laws and courts. For most of the first century of the Islamic state, in fact, the majority of the citizens were Christians, enjoying peace and liberty such as they had not had even under Christian Rome or Byzantium
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Krubach
Joined: Dec 05, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: Sunny Portugal! :)
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My conclusion is that any form of fundamentalism is what causes hates and wars.
Fundamentalism is, for me, the opposite of tolerance.
All these events were caused by a fundamentalist journalist who believes he can mock about anybody because his religion (freedom of speech) says it so. Then other Islamic fundamentalists destroyed an embassy because their religion (Islam) says that no image of the profets can be displayed.
Freedom (of speech) ends when other individual freedom and respect starts.
The fundamentalist form of freedom is anarchy.
The correct form of freedom is TOLERANCE!
Crusades were performed by fundamentalist Christians.
Nazism was performed by fundametalists too (they could've simply expelled all jews instead of slaughtering them. NOTE:not that i agree with any of the options)
USSR regime (and all the opression that came along) was put in practice by fundamentalist comunists.
etc...
etc...
etc...
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[ This Message was edited by: Krubach on 2006-02-06 17:56 ] |
xdavex
Joined: Jul 27, 2005
Posts: 280
From: UK.
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This guy has it down to a T...
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2006/02/05/we_are_all_danes_now/
[ This Message was edited by: xdavex on 2006-02-06 20:39 ] |
amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Doha, London, Tokyo, Shanghai
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that guy knows nothing, he's speaking based on what he feels not what he knows.
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batesie
Joined: Feb 13, 2004
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From: London, UK
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On 2006-02-06 23:38:10, amnesia wrote:
that guy knows nothing, he's speaking based on what he feels not what he knows.
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even though someone knows something, isnt what a person feels, more important?
as some might say our "beliefs".... |
axxxr
Joined: Mar 21, 2003
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From: Londinium
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Thats the general problem they know absolutely nothing about islam,..Maybe they should look into why muslims are behaving the way they are?..instead of saying muslims are violent ect...non one behaves erratically without having a genuine reasoning behind it..Im sick of this argument that other religions don't behave this way when we mock they gods or idols...just try to understand that Islam DOES NOT tolerate that its so simple..not much to ask to show a little respect is it?...like someone said try going out there and call a black man a N**ger or just walk around parts of north london with a swastika...see how long you will last!.if freedom of speech is so precious as some say here then why not let someone do some of these things aswell?..freedom of speech has limits,don't abuse those limits by mocking Islam.
[addsig] |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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On 2006-02-07 00:02:35, axxxr wrote:
Thats the general problem they know absolutely nothing about islam,..
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This keeps being said, yet many people do. Islam is not a secretive organisation that non-Muslims cannot know about. Most people realise that the cartoons were offensive to Muslims, but the point being made here is that that offense does not give anyone the right to commit violence.
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Maybe they should look into why muslims are behaving the way they are?..instead of saying muslims are violent ect...non one behaves erratically without having a genuine reasoning behind it..
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First of all the majority of people do not think that all Muslims are violent. Continually pushing that point is a symptom of a victim culture; the simple fact of the matter is that most people are intelligent enough to realise that the acts of terror and violence we have seen are the actions of extremists and are not representative of Muslims in general.
Secondly, I am rather surprised by your comments on erratic behaviour. Human beings, by our nature, are erratic. We are not machines, we do not follow cold logic; we base our actions on reason, intuition and emotions; that's quite a combination of factors!
You do raise an interesting point though; why are so many Muslims reacting in the way we have seen? I think we all know that the cartoons caused offense and I think we all realise that opposition and protest against them was likely. However, why have we seen violence and even people being killed as a result of these cartoons? Isn't it rather extreme to break into buildings and set them on fire or that people should be calling for other people's deaths? I can understand people being upset, angry and wanting to voice their disapproval, but I am rather puzzled as to why some apparently feel it necessary to whip the situation up into a maelstrom of fear and hate.
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Im sick of this argument that other religions don't behave this way when we mock they gods or idols... just try to understand that Islam DOES NOT tolerate that its so simple..not much to ask to show a little respect is it?...
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It seems to be a perfectly valid to me. Islam regards depictions of the Prophet or of Allah as being blasphemous. Some Christians regard the Jerry Springer opera as being blasphemous. Yet the reactions to the two have been markedly different. One involved peaceful demonstrations and opposition the other involved the burning of buildings and incitement to violence.
In the EU religion is not above the secular government; religion has no right to dictate state policy. Religion's role in the EU is to guide individuals, not states. As such people, no matter what their religious beliefs, are bound to respect and observe the law.
Islam should be shown the same respect that any other religion is entitled to. Equally the values of non-Muslims should also be respected. Are Danish Muslims forced to depict Allah or the Prophet? Why should non-Muslim Danes be forced not to? If they choose not to that is a different matter, that is of their own free will.
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like someone said try going out there and call a black man a N**ger or just walk around parts of north london with a swastika...see how long you will last!.if freedom of speech is so precious as some say here then why not let someone do some of these things aswell?..freedom of speech has limits,don't abuse those limits by mocking Islam.
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I think what you are doing here is confusing racism with free speech. Free speech does not give one a license to perpetuate suffering. Free speech gives one the right to disagree with others, not the right to attack them. The Danish newspaper did not intend to attack Islam and didn't view the cartoons as such. The intent is important here. The newspaper made a mistake in judging the reaction of the Muslim community; it issued an apology for it. The paper did not go out of its way to attack Islam or to denigrate Muslims.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
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Posted: 2006-02-06 17:57
