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Sony Ericsson XPERIA X1 discussion |
aksd
Joined: Nov 11, 2005
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From: UK, India
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If that were the case you would either have a slightly blurred image due to the slow shutter speed of night mode, or noise in the darker areas. Even with agressive noise reduction as cellphone sensor cannot remove all the noise from an image in low light, but the lack of noise maybe due to a resized image as well. Also even if it were in low light its extremely doubtful that the camera will auto increase sharpness.
You can also see signs of a smaller sensor, look at the headlight on the first pic, its completely burnt out, this is the case with the TyTn2 as well, I hope it is'nt the same unit which under performs. I can show you similar pics taken with the TyTn2 and trust me its not the photographer 
if you look at this link http://www.bengalboy.com/modu[....]m=8&post_id=6588#forumpost6588
you can see what kind of lowlight photos the phone takes, the shake of course is due to user error in all the low light pics.
I agree with your point that if there was sunlight on the bike you might have seen a bit more detailing, but looking at the image a bit more light would have ruined the bike seeing how the cam over exposes, also the detailing level would'nt magically increase to acceptable quality. the K790 took better pics than this, more detailing even in lower light conditions.
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single_luis
Joined: Mar 24, 2008
Posts: 20
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therefore have every reason, that the K790 takes best picture is a fact ... is also a person there are many who treat their mobile camera has good take it in a place where there is enough lighting and details for departing fenomela! it is true;) |
WhyBe
Joined: Apr 02, 2008
Posts: > 500
From: Ohio, USA
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On 2008-04-29 16:13:04, aksd wrote:
If that were the case you would either have a slightly blurred image due to the slow shutter speed of night mode, or noise in the darker areas. Even with agressive noise reduction as cellphone sensor cannot remove all the noise from an image in low light, but the lack of noise maybe due to a resized image as well. Also even if it were in low light its extremely doubtful that the camera will auto increase sharpness.
You can also see signs of a smaller sensor, look at the headlight on the first pic, its completely burnt out, this is the case with the TyTn2 as well, I hope it is'nt the same unit which under performs. I can show you similar pics taken with the TyTn2 and trust me its not the photographer
if you look at this link http://www.bengalboy.com/modu[....]m=8&post_id=6588#forumpost6588
you can see what kind of lowlight photos the phone takes, the shake of course is due to user error in all the low light pics.
I agree with your point that if there was sunlight on the bike you might have seen a bit more detailing, but looking at the image a bit more light would have ruined the bike seeing how the cam over exposes, also the detailing level would'nt magically increase to acceptable quality. the K790 took better pics than this, more detailing even in lower light conditions.
So you're saying, the X1 camera gives results that are on par with other cellphone cameras? |
aksd
Joined: Nov 11, 2005
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From: UK, India
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I'm saying it gives results on par with the TyTn2(white balance and colour reproduction of the TyTn2 is better though but that will be fixed, but the sensor performance is similar, as is the sharpening and noise reduction), but not close to SE's offerings, even the P1i, which uses a smaller sensor than the K790.
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max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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From: Australia
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I agree, however it's still a lot better than HTC cameras have been up to now.
Doesn't look like it's an SE cam though, that's a disappointment.
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chombos1
Joined: Jun 06, 2007
Posts: > 500
From: IRAN.
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@aksd
those pics are clearly resized with MS PAINT; anyone can spot that (you can check that yourself... just save the pictures in jpeg format to see the results........ there is no difference; meaning that it has been resized with that before).
and if you are experienced in photography... then you should know what happens to a picture when resized and over compressed with paint.
so all of your comments regarding the lack of details on the pics may not be correct............. just because of the paint over compression algorythm. |
aksd
Joined: Nov 11, 2005
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From: UK, India
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The aretefacts "may" be due to the resize, not the lack of detailing. Such a lack of detail cannot be attributed to resizing in Paint, I mean its really so strange you cant see the under performing sensor, the burnt out areas on the silver of the bike, that cant happen with a resize.
Regarding how much I know about photography, we'll I'm a free lance photographer, not that I need to proove it to you or anyone for a matter of fact, but for the sake of credibility, some of my work http://flickr.com/photos/akshaydashrath/ ,all resized from 10Mpx, cant see loss of detail in any of the pics 
On 2008-04-30 06:50:53, max_wedge wrote:
I agree, however it's still a lot better than HTC cameras have been up to now.
Doesn't look like it's an SE cam though, that's a disappointment.
Max the senor performance looks similar to the TyTn2 which is a huge dissapointment for me, I never use the TyTn2 for pics becuase to get a decent one I need to under expose by 2 stops and theres a lag in clicking to the picture taking, more so than there was with the W800, hope the X1 does'nt suffer from the same problems.
[ This Message was edited by: aksd on 2008-04-30 06:15 ]
[ This Message was edited by: aksd on 2008-04-30 06:16 ] |
chombos1
Joined: Jun 06, 2007
Posts: > 500
From: IRAN.
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@aksd
i'm not new to the image processing and photography.
and i was not questioning your photography skills freind.
i think you are getting me wrong on the subject.
example of my meaning.:
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aksd
Joined: Nov 11, 2005
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From: UK, India
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Thats exactly what I said, the artefacts are possibly the resize, but not the loss of detailing of the leaves or grass, even if there was such a great deal of loss in detail you'd see remanants of the detailing, not as soft as its now. THats why in an earlier post I said it looks like either the cam is using too much noise supression and removing details then further sharpening the edges or Bengal Boy has run it trhough Noise ware or a similar software.
For reference I've taken a pic with the TyTn II, one is a 100% crop the other a resize crop, both in paint, you can see the same pastyness of the image, lack of detail in the leaves, the leaves look like a blob of green rather than leaves.
Resized
100% crop
As you can see the lack in detailing is present even in the 100% crop.
Note: These images are from the HTC TyTn2 and NOT from the X1, I've posted it as a comparison to the lack in detailing on the X1.
EXIF of the above image
_________________
Regards,
Akshay
[ This Message was edited by: aksd on 2008-04-30 07:06 ] |
chombos1
Joined: Jun 06, 2007
Posts: > 500
From: IRAN.
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yes... those pics from tytn lacks details.
but this case is less visible on the X1 samples..... yet the X1 samples are not FULL of details...noise reduction maybe a little high on those images... but they are better than the HTC's. wait until we see an original X1 sample right from the cam.... and in full size.! |
Bengalboy
Joined: Nov 21, 2002
Posts: 237
From: USA
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You guys crack me up! Instead of just asking the man with the phone, you speculate, hypothasize, and generally ramble about questions you have that could be easily answered to your satisfaction.
1. All settings are on "Auto" including "white balance" which is how I do all my tests. Certainly the settings are there to be tweaked by the photo bug who wants the best photo for a certain condition, but, I test all phones as if the user just is going to use it with factory defaults and with the device determining what the best shot is.
2. The photos are taken about an hour before sunset and also with full cloud cover, just before a thunderstorm rolled in. I will be posting photos in bright sunlight later in the review, but, those were photos taken to get started with the review and honestly, given the conditions, excellent quality from a camera phone CMOS sensor.
3. The photos have not been resized by "Paint" "Photo Shop" or any other photo editiing software other than my photo hosting site's on compression application for displaying in VGA format. However, all photos are uploaded in their original resolution and can be viewed from Pbase by just clicking on "Oringinal" in the bottom of the photo. Here is my Chopper in its original 3.2 meg resolution. Go view every single one of them from Pbase in their original size if you so desire.
4. This is not a Nikon D3, its a camera phone with a CMOS sensor and the optics and software are for a prototype which has a Beta ROM of .74. The device is along way from release and I'm sure that by the time its officially released the quality for a 3.2 Megapixel cam will be more than acceptable.
As I continue the review on my site more photos and video taken under better conditions with the X1 will be shown as will the settings and cam information.
While you guys may enjoy arguing your points about what you speculate and surmise was going on, the true genius among you would have simply asked the man with the phone.
[ This Message was edited by: Bengalboy on 2008-04-30 16:04 ] |
aksd
Joined: Nov 11, 2005
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Nice to hear from you Bengal Boy, and yes we should have asked you, would have been a whole lot simpler, , we never said it should replicate DSLR performance but at least on par with current SE offerings, which it does'nt look like it is, proto software or not, the sensor and lens does seem smaller than the 790 as is the focal length.
If you remember with the TyTn II people said the cam would improve in the final product, it never did , hope the X1 does'nt go the same way. |
Bengalboy
Joined: Nov 21, 2002
Posts: 237
From: USA
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This is a joint venture with HTC doing the device and SE doing the Software. Basically, SE is using HTC's drivers, etc... for the MicroSoft OS, however, software and possibly the optics/sensor for the X1 will be SE's. Don't know yet, very, very early prototype devices and hardware, keys, software, etc.... will change before commercial release.
Again, this was about a poor of a day "light wise" to shoot a subject with any kind of camera and a couple of the photos were user error on my part for not switching back from macro to "auto" for the auto focus. I would hold off the critique's until you can see some photos taken in good light to compare with the other camera phones.
I do realize though that half the fun of these forums is the banter and argument about the upcoming stuff....... just having alittle fun with you guys myself! Hope you don't mind?
Mark Morrow
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aksd
Joined: Nov 11, 2005
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From: UK, India
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The worrysome part is the HTC bit(I heard theres a bit more to it, SE is also using HTC's license for WM as well as the Qualcomm processor, I have a feeling post May 6th we wont feel that SE X1 is al that hot ), after owning the TyTn2 with its pitiful camera, thats why I posted the comparison pics, as the pics have similar detailing, in its current form I dont think direct light would make all that much difference, in my opinion you'd actually see more burnt out images, but I'm sure you dont need me telling you this .
Without the arguments, forums would be a boring place would'nt they .
I dont think anybody would mind, its all in good humour. BTW, really like your reviews, they're different , wondered how come you went off the radar for a while without any new protos/reviews(sorry too OT ) etc.
[ This Message was edited by: aksd on 2008-04-30 16:35 ] |
Bengalboy
Joined: Nov 21, 2002
Posts: 237
From: USA
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Had to work to pay for them... haha... here are a couple upcoming SE phones for you to look at.... one extremely thin Nano sized phone.... very cheap to..
Generally, if its not something I would carry in my pocket I don't review it, and, nothings really came along in the past year till the X1 and the upcoming HTC 7510. Did a review on the HTC Shift and thats been pretty much it..... for the last year except fun stuff.
Mark Morrow
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Access the forum with a mobile phone via esato.mobi
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Posted: 2008-04-29 16:13
