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Is Sony Ericsson doomed? |
ares
Joined: Dec 11, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Coimbra, Portugal
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On 2008-08-18 01:06:23, Dicky Snapples wrote:
On 2008-08-18 01:00:47, carkitter wrote:
;just irritating really and we don't need it.
if thats the case why has he won best debater two years running ....
I also would like to know that...is this the theme of the new X-files movie??? Because its unexplanable for me 
SE w880 + Iphone 4 16gb | |
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max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
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On 2008-08-18 17:00:12, Brightspark wrote:
@EMS06
"They were the first in many features that they ignored later,ie, wifi (P990i), QVGA 30fps (W900i), fisrt mp cam phone, etc. "
the p990i wasn't the first wi-fi phone. the moto mpx had wi-fi, and that was released in 2004.
SE didn't release the first gsm MP phone. the world's first megapixel phone was the j-phone in 2003. on gsm, it was the sharp gx30.
the w900 was not the first phone with QVGA 30fps. the xcute dv1 did vga video recording at 30fps in 2005
SE have never ever done anything new that was later taken up by other manufacturers. they're not an innovative company.
where are you getting your information from on these dodgy and inaccurate facts and figures?
"the point is SE has become the follower."
they always have been
[ This Message was edited by: Brightspark on 2008-08-18 16:04 ]
You miss the point. They may not have been the first but often they were responsible for popularising these things. For example even though they weren't the first to incorporate mp3 playing, they popularised it with the walkman phones. Due to the walkman branding, they have legitimised mp3 players as phones.
They inspired the market to make decent camera phones that were more than gimmicks. Including the FIRST AF based camera phone and the first digicam style camera ui (aka the ground breaking K750)
They have also innovated on the j2me front, bringing jsr's first to market and including more jsr's earlier than mosts other oem's (java multi-tasking, jsr-75 to name a couple). Not to mention the first to offer task management via activity menu on a non-smartphone.
They also innovated in formfactors: swivel, the curved slide of the x1, P1 keyboard, acelerometer based controls.
Other factors such as light sensitive display adjustment, which not necessarily the first to market, among the first.
They may follow in some areas but they lead in others. Maybe you should check your own information, it's no better than EMS06's
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Ruudfood
Joined: Jun 21, 2005
Posts: 34
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I'm not going to say too much about the merits of SE's phones except: no phone on the market with HSDPA yet? I find that quite astonishing! |
Brightspark
Joined: Aug 19, 2007
Posts: 326
From: UK
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"You miss the point. They may not have been the first but often they were responsible for popularising these things. For example even though they weren't the first to incorporate mp3 playing, they popularised it with the walkman phones. Due to the walkman branding, they have legitimised mp3 players as phones.
They inspired the market to make decent camera phones that were more than gimmicks. "
i haven't missed the point at all. what makes you think the other manufacturers were responding to SE? isn't that just your assumption without anything of substance to back it up?
"They have also innovated on the j2me front, bringing jsr's first to market and including more jsr's earlier than mosts other oem's (java multi-tasking, jsr-75 to name a couple). Not to mention the first to offer task management via activity menu on a non-smartphone."
thats not innovation. it's called using a separate chip for java.
"Including the FIRST AF based camera phone and the first digicam style camera ui (aka the ground breaking K750) "
nope. try again. docomo did that.
"They also innovated in formfactors: swivel, the curved slide of the x1, P1 keyboard, acelerometer based controls."
wow! you really believe this rubbish don't you? motorola did the first swivel
like i say, SE never did anything new that was later taken up by other manufacturers.
[ This Message was edited by: Brightspark on 2008-08-18 17:12 ] |
aw614
Joined: Jul 31, 2006
Posts: 64
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They inspired the market to make decent camera phones that were more than gimmicks. Including the FIRST AF based camera phone and the first digicam style camera ui (aka the ground breaking K750)
I think the sharp 902sh came before the k750, granted it has camera issues, but an older phone with af and optical zoom |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
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On 2008-08-18 18:02:18, Brightspark wrote:
i haven't missed the point at all. what makes you think the other manufacturers were responding to SE? isn't that just your assumption without anything of substance to back it up?
because there was a growth in these areas directly after SE started to push in that area. Maybe SE wasn't responsible for kick starting the market (though it seems clear to me) but they were the first to see the full potential of camera phones and music phones. - it's clear and if you can't see it you are blind. Whether they inspired other manufacturers or not it's clear SE were the first to grasp the full market potential of dedicated music and camera handets.
nope. try again. docomo did that.
so a japanese only company was first with AF? so what. If it wasn't for SE taking the initiative in the western market it wouldn't have happened till several years later.
(not to mention SE innovation in J2ME which you didn't bother to argue with for obvious reason)
wow! you really believe this rubbish don't you? motorola did the first swivel
so I stand corrected. But who remembers the motorola?? Again the formfactor is more popular in SE hands.
like i say, SE never did anything new that was later taken up by other manufacturers.
All oem's today have followed SE on j2me implementations, Nokia has brought out music branded phones only after SE brought out walkman phones, Nokia brought out AF based phones not after docomo but after SE did so.
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[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2008-08-19 01:24 ] |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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From: Australia
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On 2008-08-18 17:55:01, Ruudfood wrote:
I'm not going to say too much about the merits of SE's phones except: no phone on the market with HSDPA yet? I find that quite astonishing!
W910, K850, Z750, K660, W980 and several more that I can't think of currently.....
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Tricks and Tricks for K800 File System Tweaks for K750
[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2008-08-19 01:25 ] |
Ruudfood
Joined: Jun 21, 2005
Posts: 34
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On 2008-08-18 19:31:06, max_wedge wrote:
On 2008-08-18 17:55:01, Ruudfood wrote:
I'm not going to say too much about the merits of SE's phones except: no phone on the market with HSDPA yet? I find that quite astonishing!
W910, K850, Z750, K660, W980 and several more that I can't think of currently.....
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Tricks and Tricks for K800 File System Tweaks for K750
[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2008-08-19 01:25 ]
Sorry, I meant BUSINESS phone  |
carkitter
Joined: Apr 29, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: Auckland, NZ
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You guys may have seen me mention this in the X1 thread but I think it's particularly relevant here and puts SE's prformance in a new light.
"The shape of the smartphone and mobile data markets"
As you can see from the 2nd diagram the market for basic voice/text handsets is massive (approx 65%) and we know it's growing very quickly due to the developing markets in China, India, Africa and Latin America.
The remaining 35% is shrinking. It could be due to any combination of factors such as Developed countries being in recession ATM, reduced disposable income due to high fuel and food prices, perhaps the high spec of current phones has left people satisfied and unwilling to upgrade, maybe some poeple held off while waiting to see what the iPhone 3G looked like? Before you laugh, remember Apple sold 1 Million of the version 2 in 3 days...
Anyway, the research shows that  and Cybershot phones are in competition with everything from ROKR and iPhone to Blackberry and WM devices and that the much requested All-In-One devices are doomed to commercial failure in the Zone of Death. As I've said before, SE are not far from returning to success, they just need a new approach. New good-looking phones, gaming phones, addition of improved audio in models, more smartphones than ever before, some high spec flagship models (W902, C905) should arrest the slide IMO as people WILL pay extra for these things but not for things like HSDPA, Shake control and Track ID as SE though they would in the past.
I don't know alot about the redundancies but I'll speculate some are UIQ employees no longer needed due to the Symbian Foundation (not caused by SE's performance) while the others are probably due to the mid/high end market shrinkage. I mean, how hard it is to make more low end phones (SE's stated aim, working alongside Sagem) compared to mid/high end phones. It's no wonder they find themselves with excess staff.
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[ This Message was edited by: carkitter on 2008-08-19 13:05 ] |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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From: Australia
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On 2008-08-19 12:54:58, Ruudfood wrote:
Sorry, I meant BUSINESS phone
 no worries. It's true no qwerty business phone has it, though G900 does. I think that at the time of the P1 (and W960, though not strictly a business phone) HSDPA on the UIQ platform was still not possible (or practical cost wise).
Now G900 is upon us and UIQ now has HSDPA, I expect the next SE UIQ business phone (if the rumours aren't true about UIQ disappearing) will have it. I think it's an issue of timing: SE just weren't ready for HSDPA when they brought out the P1.
If there is to be no more UIQ, then the next SE business phone will be a WM device imho (although I guess there is a VERY slim chance it could be s60). Whatever it is it will have HSDPA
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Muhammad-Oli
Joined: Jun 13, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: The NZ of L
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The G900 doesn't have HSDPA...
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2008, 2009, 2010 Best Australasian Member. |
anonymuser
Joined: Dec 17, 2002
Posts: > 500
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The G900 is a real wet weekend, a poor man's P1 released about three years too late, based on an OS which is now obsolete. It's frankly pathetic that right now, it's the only smartphone SE have released this year (and may yet remain so).
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Dogmann
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: London England
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Hi all,
Its quite incredible to me some of the misconceptions that have arisen in this thread now. First and foremost i am and was an Ericsson fan i chose their devices over all others because of the quality they delivered in their handsets and also the cutting edge technologies they introduced. I suppose most here don't even remember all the things that Ericsson bought to our devices and just take all these features for granted now.
Ericsson where first to market with the first PDA/phone combo which was the beginning of the emergence of the smart phone as we know it today. There were no devices like the P800 before it there were only PDA's that could link up to Mobiles.
The joining of forces of Ericsson technical know how and Sony's marketing and design was meant to be match made in heaven and for a while it was. Initially SE continued with this heritage and is why we continued to see SE offer great devices and growth in sales and market share.
My problem with SE only started in 2006 and I'm not going to repeat it all again now, but since then for calling it as i see it i have constantly been accused of being an SE hater or traitor for daring chose products that deliver what i want and need. I call that being sensible and a pro consumer the fact that most of the things i have complained about still haven't been addressed even now 2 years later IMO is why SE are in the mess they are in.
Since the P990 and UIQ3 SE still have not introduced a single smart phone with an improved Processor and graphics set up nor one with HSDPA. Even there latest Web generation smart phones don't have it, HSDPA is a wide spread feature and costs the user no more than using 3G data, but delivers huge improvements in speed. It is in all types of devices even those from SE just not in their data centric smart phones just how can that make any sense? as clearly it doesn't.
That fact alone is why myself and many others have not been able to buy an SE smart phone for so long. So where once Ericsson/SE led they are currently way behind all the competition in both choice and high end devices. As whilst they may have smart phones for some they do not have them for all, anyone like me that wants HSDPA which we can use for the same price from our Networks as plain 3G can not chose a SE smart phone.
Also the way SE treated their users that were early adopters of UIQ3 was disgraceful including withdrawing support for under a year old device. If it was just UIQ3 that got this treatment it would of been bad enough but unfortunately it wasn't A200 users have also suffered a similar fate.
The K850 SE's flagship Cyber shot failed to deliver on it's promise and where as before they had all been class leading Camera phones this was no longer true. Just look at the K850 that some 10 months odd later still has reported problems. Look at all the users that have had multiple units and worse how many users dumped the K850 and are using another manufacturers product.
These are the things that have hurt SE and it shows in their market position and drop in profits. Despite what SE and some of their users claim they are missing high end and even mid end solutions, to many devices that are just cosmetically changed with no real upgrade in the hardware has started to hurt SE.
Those that criticise SE don't do it with hate it's not because we are all Nokia fans it's because we want to see SE return to where it was or maybe even higher. But remaining silent and congratulating SE on a job badly done isn't the way to help them, unfortunately trying to give them feedback doesn't seem to work either. Things need to change and change fast as the market is ever changing and SE's competition aren't standing still either.
@Ares
You know what i was stunned i won the title the first time and even more shocked that i won it again. The only explanation i can think of is obviously many understand what i am trying to put across. Unlike you they don't believe i hate SE and find what i say actually makes sense as it's only really hardened SE fans that take exception to my opinions.
Marc
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-08-19 14:42 ] |
skblakee
Joined: May 07, 2007
Posts: > 500
From: St.Kitts, West Indies
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Dogmann you are spot on. I never ever thought that I would buy a Nokia. I always saw Nokia as an inferior product to  Now its the opposite and it all started going down with the debacle of the P990.
They don't even seem to care too much either. Whilst Nokia keeps pushing back at the competition including from Apple seems to have conceded to being fifth.
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Bonovox
Joined: Apr 13, 2008
Posts: > 500
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I agree i loved the Ericsson days and remember how they bought new tech to the market. Hey they invented Bluetooth. And when Sony married Ericsson it was all new and exciting with fab phones. For some reason they have gone off the boil and its a shame. I do love Nokia too just as much but for a long time many years back i mostly bought SE. | |
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Posted: 2008-08-18 17:41
Galaxy Note III with 64gb micro SD 
