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Bluetooth on aeroplanes – Safe? |
Fletche
Joined: Sep 16, 2003
Posts: 53
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Thanks Santa and Jevel.
So what we are saying is no WiFi, no Bluetooth!
Without wishing to split hairs, is IR OK?
This is enabled in flight mode!
Fletche | |
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jevel
Joined: Sep 09, 2003
Posts: 49
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IR is based on light, and is safe. (At least we have no restrictions on it yet...) 
-KJ
-As if!
http://www.fellowship.no |
fabrizio
Joined: Mar 06, 2003
Posts: 134
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OK, I know that:
1. Electronics can't be on when landing and taking off, and
2. Phones or two-way pagers have to always be off or in flight mode during flight
But I thought there was an exception for 802.11b. I have read reports of Lufthansa and I believe United were offering or planning to offer broadband on intercontinental flights using 802.11b. |
plevyadophy
Joined: Mar 01, 2003
Posts: 177
From: London, England
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Pardon the language folks
But....
The idea that.....
"It doesn't matter. Mobiles are a big no-no.
It interfers with the pilots headsets "
is a MASSIVE load of BOLLLOX!! Period.
The mobile in itself is NOT a problem.
If it was then how comes to qoute " U can use laptops & minidisc players etc".
When the P800 is in Flight Mode it is in effect a laptop and minidisc player. In Flight Mode the radio frequency (RF) signals are disabled. The P800 is no longer a phone in Flight Mode; it's a PDA/multimedia device.
That kinda nonsense (i.e. mobiles interefere with pilot's headsets) is told my management to staff (who are more often than not ignorant of simple technology) and they then repeat it parrot fashion to passengers/customers.
To give an example. The Home Office here in the UK (Interior Ministry in other countries) bans the use of mobiles in many of its buildings. When I queried this, I was told by a security gaurd/toy cop that it's a security issue, mobiles play havoc with their alarm system.
It was only when I looked him in the eye and suggested that he must be some sort of idiot if he believes that to be the real reason (I mean the idea that a new alarm installation, installed in a government building is so shyte that it is susceptible to interference by mobiles is laughable) that he then admitted that what he told me is simply what he gets told!!!!
The other urban myth regarding mobiles is that you shouldnt use them in petrol stations as they may cause a fire. RUBBISH. A recent research paper that I saw debunks that myth.
Bluetooth is a difficult one really. SE have disabled it on their phone. Laptop manuafacturers give no warnings (that I am aware of, correct me if I am wrong) regarding the use of BT whilst in flight, and there is the fact that BT is not really a powerful signal compared with mobile RF or WiFi.
I have asked a friend of mine who chairs a mobile phone industry body to get back to me on this BT on flights thing. I will let you all know what he says.
@ Fabrizio
Yeah, you are right.
Some airlines are indeed offering WiFi inflight. But that is only after having made various alterations to the aircraft and after extensive safety checks.
And you will find that some airlines will offer this service on some aircraft only, namely the ones that have been suitably adapted.
[ This Message was edited by: plevyadophy on 2003-09-24 22:29 ] |
skabbe
Joined: Aug 23, 2003
Posts: 317
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last time i used it we crached |
ainamrev
Joined: May 23, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Servanya - Russia
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few points i'd like to make firstly the guy above me good post
secondly the guy asking whats flight mode your a dumb twat mate sorry but you are.
Any one know why Air Emiarates have a fat stress at people for using camcoders and Game boy's on flight?
Furthermore why can cabin staff be handed technology updates so they know what a p800 is and not upset passangers. spent 30 mins arguing with a cabin crew bitch about why the p800 is ok on flight as it is on flight mode obvioulsy the bitch won with her i will have to throw you of bull shit.
And after all this why the hell do they have NO problems with laptops!
[addsig] |
malcs
Joined: Oct 16, 2002
Posts: 292
From: UK
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OK two things to sort out here::
1st of all, WiFi is OK for aeroplanes, as is mobile phone RF. the problem with both occurs when there is no signal detected by the device, and it starts to ramp up the power, in order to find a base station.. as it does not, the device just stays on full power-- this is inevitably bound to F**** something up.
Lufthansa do offer an 802.11b WiFi broadband internet service for laptops on board their aeroplanes this is because they have a base station every 1 or 2 meters along the cabin, meaning that signal strength for the device is always at a maximum. This also means that the device operates at a low power, thus not F***ng up any of the aircraft systems.
To the best of my knowledge, marconi are seeking approval for small mobile phone base stations to be concealed in each seat.. thus allowing people to use their mobile phones on the aeroplane, as signal is always kept to an absolute minimum, therefore not F***ng anything up..
hope this has been F***ng helpful..
-malcs |
chazz
Joined: Sep 04, 2003
Posts: 21
From: Bath, UK
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The risks of anything happening happening due to a mobile phone in an airplane or petrol station are really low. The main problem is that the electro magnetic waves (radio etc...) can induce shocks between parallel metal rods if they are pointing towards the phone. You would need to be in a very badly designed plane or petrol station, but still, if it does then you probably won't be aruonf to worry about it. Mind you, anyone ever heard of a mobile phone blowing stuff up??
...actually, that would be kind of cool... |
Fletche
Joined: Sep 16, 2003
Posts: 53
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If RF emitted by mobile phones is ‘so’ dangerous to the functioning of an aircraft (particularly so when the phone is transmitting at full power because no base station is detected – trying to follow your aurgument Malcs but challenging this one part), why do the airlines not use simple low cost equipment to check and enforce that people turn their phones off?
I can’t be the only 1 who’s accidently left their phone on in the overhead locker to find the battery flat after only 8 hours.
I use simple, low cost devices on a day to day basis to ensure my personal privacy which can detect and block all kinds of RF bands.
Why doesn’t some chick (sorry, cabin staff) walk down the aisle with a ‘wand’ in her hand detecting and spanking the ‘bad boys’ who have left their mobiles’ on?
Fletche
P.S. Yes I am paranoid, but doen’t you feel we all have a small right to be!
@chazz
Actually chazz yes I have heard of and people do use phones as devices to trigger explosions, and we're not just talking 'accidentilly' using high power RF tranmitters near armed explosives. You can very easily use your phone as a remote detinator. SMS Scheduler can be an ideal tool if you are the forgetful sort!
P.P.S. @chazz doing what I mentioned is easily available to any internet user or reasonably well trained terrorist. The analogy I would like to use is that you use your phone to blow up your neighbour. This is anti-social and destructive and really hurts. Your neighbour's neighbours will find you and really hurt you because they do want to be the next explosion on your list. Let's leave the blowing people up thing to games boss!
[ This Message was edited by: Fletche on 2003-09-25 00:02 ] |
P800_Zen_master
Joined: Apr 01, 2003
Posts: 483
From: ????
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@plevyadophy
about the mobiles at petorl stations. The real reason why it is not alloud is because the battery in the mobile can explode! I know this sounds quite stupid as we all hold the things next to our head but it can happen. So by having a potientional bomb at a petorl station is not always a good thing!
I have been using my P800 on airplanes twice and been seen. I ahve explained it to the ladies and had no drama!
Question:
Why is there a difference between using computer during flight is OK but not during take off and landing?? |
plevyadophy
Joined: Mar 01, 2003
Posts: 177
From: London, England
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Well there is an old English saying: "it's not what you know, but who you know that counts"
Earlier I said that " I have asked a friend of mine who chairs a mobile phone industry body to get back to me on this BT on flights thing. I will let you all know what he says." Well, the guy got back to me already!!!
Here is his answer, I dont think you can get much better than this:
-------------- copy email answer ----------------
Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) its European equivalent, the Joint Aviation Authority (JAA), and the airline community, worldwide are currently reviewing the use of Bluetooth products on private and commercial aircraft.
The current situation in the most aviation aware country, the United States, the Federal Aviation Administration states in the section of its regulations covering portable electronic devices (FAR 91.21)[1] that:
a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the operation of, any portable electronic device on any of the following U.S-registered civil aircraft:
(1) Aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate; or
(2) Any other aircraft while it is operated under IFR.
(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to--
(1) portable voice recorders;
(2) hearing aids;
(3) heart pacemakers;
(4) electric shavers; or
(5) any other portable electronic device that the operator of the aircraft has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used.
(c) In the case of an aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate, the determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that operator of the aircraft on which the particular device is to be used. In the case of other aircraft, the determination may be made by the pilot in command or other operator of the aircraft."
To paraphrase: it is up to the airlines to decide whether Bluetooth or WiFi devices can be operated on their aircraft. I know that the Bluetooth SIG has been running tests with many of the major airlines with the intent of proving that Bluetooth devices are safe for use on board aircraft. Although these tests are going well, not all airlines will necessarily approve Bluetooth technology.
To avoid the situation where airlines would consider banning the use of notebooks because they could contain Bluetooth technology, the industry has driven a strategy of having a mobile phone-like on/off mechanism with a positive indication of when the Bluetooth device is powered or not. This provides the user an easy mechanism for preventing the operation of the radio such as is possible on the Nokia 9210 or the O2 XDA – does your P800 do this too?.
There are, however, still some conflicts between the Bluetooth strategy of devices talking to each other automatically without user interaction, and the requirement to prevent operation of personal electronic devices below 10,000 feet.
One indication of the way the Airline industry will move is the recent approval in Germany of an 802.11 wireless network for use on board Lufthansa aircraft. The approval was granted to a system that allows cabin crews to communicate with an on-board server while they are moving around the aircraft. The most interesting part of this approval is that it was granted for all altitudes — not just above 10,000 feet (as one would assume)!
I can put some feelers out to my friends at TDK Systems to see how things are going in detail, but then we start to get into the realms of me giving a professional answer – if you know what I mean.
Regards,
Peter
--------------- end copy email answer ------
So there you have it. An answer from an expert in the field of mobile telephony.
I hope that helps 
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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This will probably sound really snobby, but quite frankly I don't care. I usually fly British Airwys and I have noticed a decided difference in attitudes between the different cabin classes.
I make a point of flying First whenever I can (I generally don't like planes, so I try to make myself as comfortable as possible, basically I just get drunk and try to get myself unconcious for the flight) and the air crew have always been very sympathetic towards FlightMode on my P800 in so far as I have been able to keep it switched on and have used it for various tasks not related to it's phone functions.
However, on a recent flight I found myself in economy class, the company flying me in for the meeting werecheapskates  and I found the cabin crew most hostile towards Plucky 800 in Flight Mode. I had to turn it off.
Sorry if this seems terribley snobby, its really not meant to be. I'm just making a point about the perceived difference in attitudes between cabin classes.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
abraham_aiza
Joined: Jan 23, 2003
Posts: 32
From: Mexico City
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hi everybody:
I dont know where everybody gets that stupid stuff about RF let me teach u:
I was a pilot for air france and i am now for aeromexico, let me get things straight, radio frequencies are used in almost anything that i comunicates to another devoce wirelessly, including tnt trigger activation, thats why u cant use in a explotion site a cell phone, in petrol stations... that has been removed that was because of the metal atraction some said and mailnly and comes in all instructives, is cause some old cell phones where not electronically safe as the battery was a new type and beta testings showed that it might throw a spark or two jajajja but in petrol stations that has been long removed, at least here in mexico, as of aircrafts, we have 2 types of navigation sistem, the main one called VOR, which is made from a stron RF signal and GPS a global positioning system, the VOR can interfere with the cell phones, this at the same time taking all the information on the position and coordinates and trying to send them to the cell phone which is looking for signal, boeing has an answer to that, as you can see aircrafts have air phones, they are suppose to be satellite instead of RF but what it is is a special ericsson antena planted in the nose of the aircraft that routes the RF directly to the rf antenas down there, in 3 years more less u are gonna be able to use ur cell phone with carge to use the antena mounted on the aircraft what the antena does is amplificate the signal to support the speed of the aircraft, the antena is a nice baby and it is ericsson!
[this message was NOT posted from a crapy nokia  ] |
Fletche
Joined: Sep 16, 2003
Posts: 53
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@abraham_aiza
Boss, forgive me if I'm not quite with the program (I am at your disadvantage)
Is what you are saying that the VOR tries to communicate with the phone rather than it's master/slave confusing it?
I guess this is not good news if GPS packs up.
But hopefully the skies are a bit clearer in Mexico.
P.S. J'avais une tres vieux maison en France blisko (Polish) pret de Dinan. La France etait vraiment une tres belle pay! Mexico? |
Dj Boyi
Joined: Oct 05, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: Liberty City
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The owner of my local petrol station says you cant make calls there but the phone is ok if it is switched on  | |
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Posted: 2003-09-24 23:00
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