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Polyphonic sound quality ! |
FRiC
Joined: Mar 27, 2003
Posts: 123
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@Wyvern
SMAF (.MMF) is actually superior to MIDI. MMF can contain both synthesized music and digitized speech. The full MMF specification also includes graphics. All played in sync.
http://smaf-yamaha.com/
@orange
Actually, Nokia Series 40 and Series 60 phones have completely different MIDI specs. Series 40 only has 29 melodic instruments and 14 percussive instruments.
Series 60 has the standard 128 melodic and 47 percussive.
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janahan
Joined: Jan 13, 2003
Posts: 232
From: UK
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ok lot of posts here, with the usual truths, and half truths,, and plenty of "Nokia & Samsung" bashing without knowing full facts, that is well known on this forum.
Let me tell you first, I own a Yamaha PSR 290 keyboard, a LIVE with full Roland GS Banks, a T300, a P800, and have had good experience with a Nokia 3650, Samsung T100, Nokia 3510 & 7210. so what i am gonna say comes from knowledge.
First off, none symbian phones.
Nokias non-symbian phones range from crap (3510 with 3+1 poly, with 'basic' sound banks) to mediocre, 7210. The samsungs have a better set of instrumentsand a louder "bassy" speaker. However, the quality crown definately goes to SE. The t300, and t610 has great sounding poly from good banks and a good sound processor. The T300 was quiet, and the T610 is louder. Best Ringtone in my opinion is Moonstar, and Dilemma. Seimens comes between SE and samsung.
In Symbian phones the poly is handled by beatnik software, and is entirely based on the provided banks. The P800 and 7650 easily ships with the worst bank out of all the Symbian Phones i have seen, and MIDI, although loud and 16 channels.. is basically pants. Nokia 3610 comes with a better bank, which although cant touch the T300/T610 is a vast improvement. You CAN use that same bank on the P800, however, it does delay playback, as the bank has to be loaded and uncompressed each time you play a midi file (fast as the processor is on the P800, its still not fast enough not to cause a delay of a couple of seconds). There is a 490KB Beatnik Bank available which vastly improves the P800 and other symbian devices based on Beatnik right up to almost T300 quality.. but an almost 10 second loading time is OUCH!
Best thing to do for the P800 and other symbian phones is to use a Wave File sampled at 16 bits, 22 Khz Mono, and saved as IMA ADPCM. the quality is superb, especially if u make smart use of an equaliser, and normaliser to adjust the volumet to optimal levels. My ring tone is a recording of Bobble Bobble, and sounds authentic.
unless we can get the symbian phones to load banks into memory at startup, ther eis no other option.
As for MMF, yes it is format that stores Sample data, as well as Sequencing Data. Symbian phones can use Beatniks RMF files with are a similar principle. However i know the non symbian Noks and SE, do NOT support it. AFAIK, only Samsung supports it.
SO best non symbian playback is SE, and best Symbian playback is Nokia. |
Wyvern
Joined: Feb 12, 2003
Posts: 43
PM |
@orange, the 3+1 speakers are used in the 3510. sorry, forgot to mention that most nokia phones from the 7210 onwards has improved ones, but still not 32-tone polyphonic.
also, i sent a .mmf file to a 6610 it worked. i sent a .midi file to a 6610, it didnt work. the phone said "fie format not supported." |
Indianbwoy
Joined: Nov 08, 2002
Posts: 108
From: London, UK
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I converted all my MIDI to rmf with Beatnik Converter but the load time still exists! Its exactly the same delay as a MIDI file.
The only benefit I can c from converting MIDI>RMF is that the file sizes were significantly reduced, eg. 52k>8k, but Im assuming the loading into RAM of the beatnik patch by the P800 is still the major reason for the delay.
My understanding was that a RMF file is like a WAV file...guess I misunderstood, after not seeing a change in delay. I now presume an RMF is basically a cleaned up and trimmed MIDI file?
 T68i, P800 Nokia 3650 |
orange
Joined: Mar 13, 2002
Posts: 397
PM |
Quote:
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On 2003-06-05 15:29:42, FRiC wrote:
@orange
Actually, Nokia Series 40 and Series 60 phones have completely different MIDI specs. Series 40 only has 29 melodic instruments and 14 percussive instruments.
Series 60 has the standard 128 melodic and 47 percussive.
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As I said both Series40 and Series 60 phones COMPLY with GM1. Series 40 phones just uses a mapping scheme for similar timbres using 29 melodic and 14 percussive instruments. Get the facts from here. |
orange
Joined: Mar 13, 2002
Posts: 397
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Quote:
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On 2003-06-05 16:09:18, Wyvern wrote:
@orange, the 3+1 speakers are used in the 3510. sorry, forgot to mention that most nokia phones from the 7210 onwards has improved ones, but still not 32-tone polyphonic.
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I don't know what you mean by "3+1 speakers". To get the more detailed info about MIDI capabilities in Nokia phones, see here.
Quote:
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also, i sent a .mmf file to a 6610 it worked. i sent a .midi file to a 6610, it didnt work. the phone said "fie format not supported."
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.mmf is definitely not supported in Nokia phones. Can you put that .mmf-file available somewhere, so I can try it? |
Wyvern
Joined: Feb 12, 2003
Posts: 43
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well, 3+1 means the polyphony level 4. except that according to nokia service centers, one channel is reserved for percussion instruments. simple maths.
and i dun haf the .mmf file with me now. sry bout tt, i deleted it as i didnt like it. u can go look around for .mmf files and try though.
also, according to orange's informative pdf, we can see that:
the nokia 3510(i), 5100, 6100, 6610, 6800, 7210, 7250 supports polyphony level 4, with 29 melodic and 14 perc. instruments.
the nokia 6220 supports polyphony level 16, dither instruments.
the 3650, 7650, 3300, 6650 supports polyphony level 24, with 128 melodic and 47 perc instruments.
and according to sonyericsson's whitepapers:
p800 supports polyphony level 16, 128 melodic instruments, 87 percussive instruments.
the t310 and t610 supports polyphony level 32, wavetable synthesis used, 128 melodic instruments, 81 percussive ones.
t300 supports polyphony level 24, 128 melodic instruments, 81 percussive instruments. wavtable synthesis used.
if u wanna know about the quality, i think u have to compare the .pdfs from both companies as naturally, they both claim to be very good.=)
link for ericsson's .pdf (u need to login/geta account): http://www.ericsson.com/mobilityworld/sub/open/devices/p800/docs/dg_polyphonic?printableversion=yes
link for nokia's .pdf:
http://www.forum.nokia.com/main/1,6566,040,00.html?fsrParam=3-3-/main/1,6566,1_2_7_1,00.html&fileID=2919
*all phones from both brands comply with GM-1 standards.
so this about sums up this thread, but our dear orange can continue quoting any errors or miss-outs in our posts so that we can further our knowledge with nokia's pdfs, and most importantly, fully understand this interesting piece of technology here called Polyphonic Ringtones.
[ This Message was edited by: Wyvern on 2003-06-08 01:02 ] |
Dj Boyi
Joined: Oct 05, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: Liberty City
PM |
'Speak English Boy'! LoL :-D
This message was posted from a T68i |
Wyvern
Joined: Feb 12, 2003
Posts: 43
PM |
ok...i figured that that would have been incomprehensibly long. |
FRiC
Joined: Mar 27, 2003
Posts: 123
PM |
@Wyvern
Sony Ericsson has a different white paper specifically written for the MIDI specifications, that's why the regular phone whitepapers don't have any detail. I don't remember where it is right now, but a search should turn it up.
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Wyvern
Joined: Feb 12, 2003
Posts: 43
PM |
tts kool, i'll go look for it. thx dude.
oh. i think i found it. i'll go thru it.
[ This Message was edited by: Wyvern on 2003-06-07 15:56 ] |
thescorrpion
Joined: Mar 07, 2003
Posts: 137
From: Mumbai, India ..
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Ok so the scorpion stings, I DONT !!! |
Jowi
Joined: Feb 21, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: Pilipinas
PM, WWW
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actually, im not impressed w/ the 3650...so hard to create sms |
Dj Boyi
Joined: Oct 05, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: Liberty City
PM |
Ok then @all,when i get my t610 how will the polys compare with my missus's pana gd87(and i think they are good,and LOUD!) Plus,will i be able to send polys to it from my t610?
This message was posted from a T68i |
Wyvern
Joined: Feb 12, 2003
Posts: 43
PM |
ok. i edited the summing-up post on top after reading both pdfs again.
@boyi, sry i dun own a gd87. i thnk u need to ask someone who does. as for sending tones from t610 to gd87, i think u can send tones to it via mms. nnot sure about IrDA though. | |
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Posted: 2003-06-05 15:29
T68i, P800
