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UIQ vs S60 |Which Symbian is better| come and vote |
Supa_Fly
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On 2008-05-19 21:19:40, koto wrote:
UIQ all the way. S60 is too much simple for my taste.
What do you mean by simple? menu's, navigation, or the apps are too simple? Is everyone here talking of the past year with S60 3rd Edition?
THey have more apps than UIQ, and UIQ development team at Motorola & SE SHOULD take note! S60 will be a HUGE main competition for UIQ by end of year with a touch interface, and I think many ppl here, although they prefer UIQ to S60, they may change their mind if apps unique to UIQ get ported to S60 and a better hardware is available. Its time for SE to fully use UIQ3 in more of their lineup; as Microsoft said they're planning HUGE market rise by 2010! thats less than 2yrs. THey have the wide range of devices and manufacturers, the applications, both smartphone & touchscreen, but whent eh OS becomes more efficient and user friendly - plus getting rid of those horrible standard OS icons - then I think Symbian (S60 or UIQ) may not be so strong in Europe, with only Android being the competition within 5yrs on the consumer market.
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OluYom
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It is actually true that S60 is the simpler interface of the two - in part responsible for it being more accepted by non-power users. And that's a good thing.
Yet, its this same simplicity that makes it an inadequate interface for power users. Compare calendar on S60 with calendar on UIQ, for example. Or document editing, Or email.
One is significantly more comprehensive than the other, and by extension making the other easier to use for the average Joe than one.
I'm not sure that s60 will change much just because touchscreen functionality will be added. Afterall the coming S60 modification is being designed to be compatible with existing software on the platform.
It seems more like two different user interfaces with some opposing strengths and weaknesses.
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[ This Message was edited by: oluyom on 2008-05-20 03:44 ] |
razec
Joined: Aug 20, 2006
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Leave the fact that S60 has way larger 3rd party apps and better developer support than UIQ then Technicality(software features, programmability) wise UIQ wins. The touchscreen + Keyboard/keypad combo is the biggest advantage of it  phones like P990, P1, W960, G900 perfectly shows how capable 9.1 UIQ is for many things. i can't even believe that a 3 year old platform can be integrated with Flash Lite 3.0(which is seen on S60 3.1 and above), Touch AF, pre-installed torch app, Media manager software, iphone/W960 style music player and is compatible with a GPS accessory.
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Dogmann
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
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Hi all,
I really wonder just when some here last used an S60 3rd Edition device if they ever have from the comments made. UIQ was my OS of choice right up till the M600 and since then there is not one UIQ device i can choose till now as they are all slow and using outdated hardware with insufficient support for new tech. There is currently no UIQ smart phone from SE that has HSDPA, although strangely enough there is from Moto and they use a much more powerful processor to.
As none have HSDPA and even now by comparison they are all slow, all the apps open fast and are useable quickly on S60 and i really wouldn't say the UIQ equivalents are better either even once you can use them.
But like any smart phone the ability to add 3rd party apps so the user can have have his device as he likes is both plentiful and reasonably cheap.
I use Seven for push E-Mail but previously used the built in E-Mail and it works very well, i also use Handy Calender as the built in Pim app is quite basic but it really isn't that different to the one found on UIQ.
I have no need for a 3rd party Web browser as the built Safari based browser is quite simply one of the best and has Flash Lite 3.0 support. I have no need to install a 3rd party media player as Real Player plays more than just 3Gp and handles H.264 perfectly.
S60 has all the the most up to date hardware and tech again something UIQ is missing, i still believe UIQ could be much better if not the best OS, but currently it is held back and crippled by a lack of decent hardware from SE.
To those of you who think S60 is to simple all i can say is you must be masochists and enjoy the illogical access to menu's and apps that UIQ brings and enjoy the delays as it gives you time to work out what you need to do next when the app responds.
What is worse is that soon the only real advantage UIQ offered for those that want or need a Touch screen will also be gone. There are just so many more devices available now that offer better spec's and performance for our money and SE/UIQ have lost the high ground.
Over the last couple of years so many of the once SE/UIQ faithful have gone else where for their devices and it will be hard for SE/UIQ to win them back.
Now if they rumors of the P5 spec's are true still the same old 208mhz processor and still no HSDPA late 2008 that really will not help SE/UIQ win anyone back IMO.
We always hear of these great new devices with a new OS and powerful processors but just when will we see them? and more importantly be able to buy them.
Marc
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-05-20 07:59 ] |
anonymuser
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Marc, as usual you're arguing about hardware rather than the actual user interface. In pure hardware terms the current range of S60 devices top trumps SE's efforts - lack of HSDPA etc - but that has nothing to do with S60 vs. UIQ as a means of interacting with the phone. Remember that both of these are merely interfaces, the underlying OS is the same and can support all the same hardware.
UIQ has an obvious advantage over S60 as an interface, with the option of touchscreen support, and will always have a dedicated user base in that regard. It gives an added dimension of control that S60 simply can't mimic - at least not yet. S60's transition to touch support is unproven, and likely to be beset by heritage issues, while UIQ's is inbuilt from the ground up.
S60, as an interface, barely improves upon S40 or the other keyboard-driven ancestors of both systems. It's ancient, and looking ever more so in the post-Iphone era. Nokia know this of course, which is why they're maxxing out the hardware as much as they can to compensate, and working on Touch support for the next generation at the same time.
The S60 you champion is well past it's best before, and likely to start fading out quite soon.
[ This Message was edited by: Boinng on 2008-05-20 13:29 ] |
Dogmann
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@Boinng,
Well that's strange as if it so good why did you move to WM then?
Everyone knows why i left UIQ and it was due to extremely slow and illogical software that UIQ 3 delivered. It really doesn't matter how great a UI looks if it doesn't work well and at a reasonable speed and with outdated hardware it's quite simply pointless.
I'm not going to keep repeating the points or the fact that UIQ has been stifled for the many reasons i have mentioned. Quite simply until such time as SE/UIQ can deliver a device that has up to date spec's and operates as it should myself and many others won't touch it or return to it. How ever great the UI is if it doesn't does deliver a good user experience it's pointless.
As for UIQ has dedicated user base just how small is that now that people like yourself have defected to WM or like me to S60 as it wasn't that big to start with was it?
As for S60 is only a slightly better S40 well i suppose ignorance is bliss because obviously you don't have a clue what you are talking about as a self confessed S60 HATER.
Marc
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-05-20 16:23 ] |
ares
Joined: Dec 11, 2003
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I'm not going to keep repeating the points
What??? Are you sure??? Who are you, and what did you do to Doggman!!!???
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koto
Joined: Sep 18, 2006
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In my case UIQ on P1 works like a charm, really fantastic phone and UI, but it is time to expect more from new models coming. So one thing is true, if P5 proves to be a tiny P1 upgrade (208 mhz procesor) I think I will swich to WM (HTC touch diamond maybe). But let's see.
And as I said S60 is simply not for me, not at this stage as I can't bear non TS phone, no way. |
anonymuser
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On 2008-05-20 17:19:57, Dogmann wrote:
@Boinng,
Well that's strange as if it so good why did you move to WM then?
Honestly? Because I'd used UIQ for four years and fancied a change, and because I'd been offered a very good deal on the Tytn II instead of leaving Vodafone for a P1, and couldn't ignore the fact that it was a much better specified device.
I like the Tytn II and Windows Mobile a lot, and it would take a lot to tempt me back to UIQ - like updated hardware for one thing. But does any of this have anything to do with UIQ vs. S60? No. Because if Vodafone had been offering me an S60 device instead I'd have turned them down and gone for the P1, simple as that. There's nothing in the S60 range that would tempt me away from either UIQ or WM.
Everyone knows why i left UIQ and it was due to extremely slow and illogical software that UIQ 3 delivered. It really doesn't matter how great a UI looks if it doesn't work well and at a reasonable speed and with outdated hardware it's quite simply pointless.
The initial release of UIQ3 was botched, as everyone here knows. The P990 was a disaster, and the M600 - which we both had - also had problems initially. Sadly you ditched your M600 before the problems were solved, which is perfectly understandable, but nevertheless the M600 actually matured into an extremely stable, usable, responsive handset. That legacy was passed on and improved in the P1, and I've no doubt that the P5 (or whatever the successor is called) will continue to build on that.
I'm not going to keep repeating the points or the fact that UIQ has been stifled for the many reasons i have mentioned. Quite simply until such time as SE/UIQ can deliver a device that has up to date spec's and operates as it should myself and many others won't touch it or return to it. How ever great the UI is if it doesn't does deliver a good user experience it's pointless.
That's great. Nevertheless, in the context of this thread, the UI is important. And UIQ is, without doubt, the superior UI. The fact that it has suffered recently through dissapointing implementations/hardware doesn't change that.
As for UIQ has dedicated user base just how small is that now that people like yourself have defected to WM or like me to S60 as it wasn't that big to start with was it?
No idea, sorry. It's a case of "build it and they will come", though - if they get the next phone right, people will buy it and the userbase will go up. If they don't it won't. The Iphone had a userbase of none little more than a year ago.
As for S60 is only a slightly better S40 well i suppose ignorance is bliss because obviously you don't have a clue what you are talking about as a self confessed S60 HATER.
Keep up the tiresome bile Marc, it doesn't change the fact that S60 was built around the same basic conventions as S40, and that heritage is still plainly visible today - it's grounded in d-pads, phone keys, soft buttons, and everything else that mobile phones were expected to have in the last century. It's old, and that's staring everyone in the face, whether they SPEAK IN CAPITALS or not.
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Mizzle
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Boinng,
You're getting my vote for best post of the year. I totally agree with you!
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Dogmann
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@Boinng
Well really no surprise but the only thing i can really agree with you on this,
"That legacy was passed on and improved in the P1,"
As your right it added 64mb of RAM which was a brilliant and necessary move and the legacy it passed on was still having some of the exact same bugs a year later. As well as still no HSDPA and the same now even older processor and that's a legacy to be proud of? I don't think so SE should be truly ashamed that they couldn't even fix known identifiable bugs on a new device a year later. Yet there surprised that only one Network in the UK sold the P1 and it effected sales.
It's such shame that you just can't understand that not everyone wants a Touch screen, and i know i am not the only one that feels this way. It is mentioned on lots of other forums and the sales figures also show this to be true as otherwise we would all be buying Touch screen devices and they would be the dominant factor which of course they aren't well not yet anyway.
Now i understand you and others do like Touch screen devices and that you will accept the trade offs that brings. But the other way round just completely escapes you and appears to be beyond your understanding for some reason.
Marc
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-05-20 18:02 ] |
Supa_Fly
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On 2008-05-20 04:39:00, OluYom wrote: (edited out 1st paragraph)
Yet, its this same simplicity that makes it an inadequate interface for power users. Compare calendar on S60 with calendar on UIQ, for example. Or document editing, Or email.
One is significantly more comprehensive than the other, and by extension making the other easier to use for the average Joe than one.
I'm not sure that s60 will change much just because touchscreen functionality will be added. Afterall the coming S60 modification is being designed to be compatible with existing software on the platform.
Really? How can simplicity make a platform inadequate for a power user? By definition Power users should be able to add applications that perform the functions that they need/want to augment the original platform purchased WITHOUT having to tweak those augmentations further, but to use them effectively & efficiently! Calendar on UIQ & S60 are pretty much the same, but BOTH can be further augmented - & much better - by LonelyCat Games software. Document Editing? That was LONG gone in UIQ or Symbian - NATIVELY - since the Psion days. Email Support is lacking natively since neither can get corporate Exchange or Domino or Novell email (pushed) without some sort of plugin or partnership with those companies (ie ActiveExcahnge by MS partnership); again NATIVELY as part of the OS or GUI.
On 2008-05-20 04:39:00, OluYom wrote:
It seems more like two different user interfaces with some opposing strengths and weaknesses.
I'll agree with you here, but if we're going to mention that S60 is not enough for power users, you need to look much further on Nokia's E-Series and software from Nokia directly aimed at business users & power users. Many times here I see ppl through the term "power user" around refering to themselves yet they probably couldn't make a spreadsheet with formulas directly on their smartphone (3rd Party app or not) let alone a desktop PC. Knowing how to navigate, install apps, or reboot a smartphone doesn't make anyone a power user, nor does poking a touchscreen.
My argument is that I see S60 progressing along with the BlackBerry progressing further & further every 6mths, yet UIQ has only offered us a GUI facelift while some underpinnings to bring it CLOSE in line to the competition for network or security support.
Either way UIQ is not hurting by its own fault, its manufacturers that do NOT see the benefit of using an OS/GUI in an ecosystem represented by less than 4million units (Z8, Z10, P1i combined; rough estimate) sold in the past year, on only 3 handhelds, 2 of which are marketed to the same user base with the same design & pretty much the same hardware. Motorola's latest troubles most likely will allow it to abandon previous official statements of it making it part of 80% of their product mix.
PS I want UIQ to grow & thrive, but I still think that  is not pushing it enough, and should make it the primary phone, sheesh the ONLY phone for all those part of its development team for 6mths straight! If thats done then they'll improve it MUCH further and get a clue its hardware needs to be TOP NOTCH!
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OluYom
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prom1 asked, ''Really? How can simplicity make a platform inadequate for a power user?''
If we are using the word simplicity as a synonym for the word 'basic', perhaps you'll understand that better. S60 is more basic than UIQ. For example, the iPhone UI, as good as it is, is just too simple, too basic. It gives too few options. I'd be limited with an iPhone. That's how simplicity can make a platform inadequate for a power user.
As for the jab that some of us advocates of UIQ should try out S60, especially those targeted at the business end, my last smart devices before I got the P1i, in reverse order, were: E61i, E61, and 9500.
I used each extensively as my mobile office while I had it: email, spreadsheets, word documents, web management, client server administration, internet banking, calendars and tasks. When I used the word 'power user', perhaps I din't really know what I was saying? Most people I know don't use any of their smartphones for 50 per cent of what I use mine for.
Having used S80, S60 and UIQ devices, I can say that S60 is the most basic (simple?) of the three.
Prom1, you finally agreed with me that the two interfaces are targeted at two different market segments. Seeing that you disagree on the issues of simplicity (basic) versus comprehensiveness (someone can help me with a better word), in what way then are the two targeted at different market segments?
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[ This Message was edited by: OluYom on 2008-05-21 04:02 ] |
Supa_Fly
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On 2008-05-21 04:57:00, OluYom wrote:
prom1 asked, ''Really? How can simplicity make a platform inadequate for a power user?''
If we are using the word simplicity as a synonym for the word 'basic', perhaps you'll understand that better. S60 is more basic than UIQ. For example, the iPhone UI, as good as it is, is just too simple, too basic. It gives too few options. I'd be limited with an iPhone. That's how simplicity can make a platform inadequate for a power user.
As for the jab that some of us advocates of UIQ should try out S60, especially those targeted at the business end, my last smart devices before I got the P1i, in reverse order, were: E61i, E61, and 9500.
I used each extensively as my mobile office while I had it: email, spreadsheets, word documents, web management, client server administration, internet banking, calendars and tasks. When I used the word 'power user', perhaps I din't really know what I was saying? Most people I know don't use any of their smartphones for 50 per cent of what I use mine for.
Having used S80, S60 and UIQ devices, I can say that S60 is the most basic (simple?) of the three.
Prom1, you finally agreed with me that the two interfaces are targeted at two different market segments. Seeing that you disagree on the issues of simplicity (basic) versus comprehensiveness (someone can help me with a better word), in what way then are the two targeted at different market segments?
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Yomi Says - A non-conformist pastor and mobility geek has his say[ This Message was edited by: OluYom on 2008-05-21 04:02 ]
@OluYom, I understood what you mean by the word "simplisticity" but you didn't define HOW the S60 or S80 platform is simplistic?? You already stated that you used it for many different purposes above, and I'm assuming the same is done for the S60. Off hand, S80 I see as limited in applications (did it have Avaya PBX phone support, does UIQ? Even on Cisco? Does UIQ have UMA support? these are consumer & corporate user implementations, SAP is not there for either but coming to the BB platform). However you still haven't made clear just HOW or WHAT makes the S60 platform "basic" or "Simplistic" to the UIQ platform?
My understanding is if there are more applications - if quality and distinctive (which there are) on one platform than another - that means its more powerful in what it offers & more extensible. now I'm specifically defining "more applications" as being quality & distinct so as not to invoke the thought of the thousands of redone apps for the Palm OS (must be 5 different apps offering the same simple memory management or theme switching tasks either individually or bundled for example). Now I'm ignorant to the UIQ platform in the sense that I haven't used it for more than 3wks on the P990i and that was very "end user - basic" usage. Give us some definitions besides a having a "touchscreen" as being a more advance function or giving UIQ power.
Its seems that you using an S80 are of the "Old-school" lot, myself included. What I'm refering to is that long ago we - deducing & assuming here - used a PDA with touchscreen to get work done when being completely mobile (laptops were not as powerful back then kids and were MUCH heavy to bag around). If I'm correct then the ol' habit of penning around a screen dies hard. I still see no reason for a touch screen other than sentimental value or for handdrawn pictures or notes or signatures. I myself don't cursive write so ledgeably, never have, so cursive writing I try to avoid. Typing is much more efficient for long sentences, paragraphs, emails, essays, data entry and pulling up large forms of data. GUI's from UIQ to Windows Mobile even with Touch Flo still haven't convinced me that using a touchscreen is more efficient to input, or recall large forms of information/data than hardware keys. A marriage of the two is a great solution but so many manufacturers avoid this - a sole reason I think Palm still exist today & ppl still purchase their products.
By different market segments I'm refering to the following:
* Basic user just needing a phone.
* Multemedia user needing a great phone, but likes to take photos &/ listen to music while on the go (public transit, shopping, walks on the boadwalk). (2)
* Power user - needing to add complex or more robust or indepth applications to add more than basic functionality for a specific task that they are after. Also with the ability to do office work while mobile without the extreme need/want to use a laptop, and the ability to work (review or edit) on traditional or open office standard files (MS Word, Excel, Powerpoint). (2)
Now the last two points you'll notice that I listed a number which falls into the following:
(1) Hardward is NONE Touchscreen and has physical keys traditionally and also recently adding Touch Sensitive/Capacitance Keys.
(2) Many hardware platforms have Touchscreen and many have Landscape Non-Touchscreens with full or quasi QWERTY/AVERTY keyboards. Even fewer still have traditional keypads in Candybar, Flipphone (rare in this segment), or slider formats.
^ thats what I mean by market segments. Many ppl "prefer" a touchscreen to review, edit, or input new data. Many ppl "prefer" a full qwerty keypad to do the same. And although fewer, there are some ppl that like slim devices that are still smartphones, and still prefer a "quasi - qwerty/azerty/averty" keypad. Thats market segmentation. As a final example, RIM has already confirmed rumors that a touchscreen BlackBerry is being developed for a specific carrier - Verizon (as their users or the provider prefer touchscreen phones, they don't get much variety in the smartphone realm - WM Pro & Palm if I'm not mistaken). However my points above, regarding market segmentation do not PROVE nor in any way in agreement that a platform is more powerful than another; platforms are mostly software based, their implementation into hardware - shouldn't be difficult, nor limiting and quite possible into various hardware for market segmentations and should be able to in order to survive the long run.
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mib1800
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On 2008-05-21 04:57:00, OluYom wrote:
If we are using the word simplicity as a synonym for the word 'basic', perhaps you'll understand that better. S60 is more basic than UIQ. For example, the iPhone UI, as good as it is, is just too simple, too basic. It gives too few options. I'd be limited with an iPhone. That's how simplicity can make a platform inadequate for a power user.
I read that you can't even get UIQ3 to connect to corporate wifi (802.1x). And you cannot customise UIQ3 main menu (like sub-folders). No support for UPNP. No SIP/VOIP. No HSDPA support. No support full landscape UI. No demand paging (stuck at old Symbian OS). No full contact search. No profile support. No call recording support. No UDP (user data preservation). No accelerometer. No gaming platform (like ngage). No voice dialing (without voice tag). No standard port/jack.
So UIQ3 is "comprehensive" but inadequate.  S60 has all the above. So it is "basic" but powerful. I think this should clear up the confusion. 
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Posted: 2008-05-20 01:28
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