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Nokia unveils SIX new phones. |
Ruvjet
Joined: Mar 22, 2002
Posts: 268
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Quote:
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On 2002-11-04 14:13, ihudol wrote:
SE will never die! Nokia can release 100 phones in the next year but all together will never win over P800 and SE future phones.
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Ericsson clearly stated that they wanted to see  win back market share in the next 2 quarters (Q4 and Q1)before they invested in any more money in the JV.
Is the T100, T200 or T300 gonna be the phone that pulls them out of fifth place by april next year?
In the face of everything Nokia will be releasing in Q1 next year?
I think need to reposition themselves, stop chasing market share, and focus on high-end phones with connectivity to vaios, mavicas, clies and playststions..
[ This Message was edited by: Ruvjet on 2002-11-04 13:30 ] | |
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Superluminova
Joined: Feb 24, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: ...Mummies Tummy!
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Quote:
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On 2002-11-04 14:16, caff wrote:
Yeah...........still no P800 competitor from nokia though.......
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but the genral public don't want a p800 do they? no they dont! they want NOKIA phones like , 3510i, 3650, 5100, 6100, 6610, 6650, 6800, 7210, 7250, 7650! 10 colours screen phones! all 4096 colour screens! this is what the general public want, they don't care about fantastic features that se phones have, they want simple, good, easy to use phones, oh and they want to be able to buy them! not have to wait over 3 months more until a p800 comes out do they?
OBEY GAINT |
bruquee
Joined: Jul 12, 2002
Posts: 44
From: Manila
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have to agree on the last point. nokia is doing really well right now, while ericsson is floundering and resorting to drastic measures to stay afloat.
am a bit puzzled by the number of new nokia releases though. it does seem like they are just trying to flood the market... |
swazi
Joined: Oct 07, 2002
Posts: 499
From: Swazi in Bahrain
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Anyone got any pics of the Nokia 6800
Email ecollyer@consultant.com
8810 + 7650 + SE T630*HBh-65, i know waiting for P900 to come down in price |
decoy7
Joined: Feb 06, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: NW London
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hahaaaaaa, suffice to say, Nokia are bending SE over and giving it to them right up th.........
http://esato.com/board/viewtopic.php?topic=12804&forum=3#post159127
fcuk the P800, fcuk SE and now who's playing Nokia game?
BBBold on T-Mobile UK |
ppcrockar
Joined: Mar 04, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: Sweden
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Well... I think Nokia seems a bit desperate. But I don't think it is SE that they are afraid of. It is the japanese and Korean manufacturers that they are afraid off, and they should be.
SE should focus on High-end phones with lots of features and high profit margins. The massmarket will be very hard. Their high-end phones are still the best phones.
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Knut.G.
Joined: Mar 12, 2002
Posts: 149
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Super G:
How am I wrong? or even "pathetic"? Have you even read my post?
To get the facts on the table, sales figures showed that Nokia sold 650 thousand Symbian units in Q3 2002, that includes the Communicator of course, and 7650. The 3 million by end of year is not at all confirmed, and if you dont back it up with some proof(ie showing that they sold about 2.2 million by this date) then it is pure speculation(on this forum, mind boggling).
The total mobile phone market is about 400 million devices, so I wouldnt excactly say it is that impressive any way. U see, Nokia doesnt make that much money on high end phones, most of its money comes from the so called "Youth Segment" phones, that are cheap and light on features. This is where I think Nokia has problems right now. If u read my post, u will see that what I meant was a lot of their released phones do not/did not sell as well as they hoped.
And would u please explain to me Super G, what is the logic of releasing 3-5 phones in every market segment? In my opinion it shows that Nokia is really unsure about the market, and is unwilling to back one horse. And the funny thing is, Nokia never did this before.
My point stands. Nokia has been severely shaken up by the success of the T68 in particular, but also Motorola T720 and Samsung color phones. In the last 1.5 years, they have truly changed as a company, and they have drasticly changed their product lineup. They now have so many competing products, that they could fuel the product lineup for two other companies as well.
Congratulations to Nokia for finally releasing a phone that matches the T68i. It only took them a year, and 5 different product releases. Nokia beating SE? They are merely catching up, and about time in my opinion.
-Knut |
jcpsad
Joined: Oct 15, 2002
Posts: > 500
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I don't think SE's upcoming releases will compete with these phones... These phones are really state-of-the-art!
www.photos.panelo.com
www.panelo.com
www.bilog.panelo.com
www.pbalive.panelo.com |
ppcrockar
Joined: Mar 04, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: Sweden
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@jcpsad
Design-wise yes... but not in functionality. And the only one with a nice design of the Nokias released today is the 6100 (which looks nice) the other ones are just ugly. But that's my opinion of course... |
jcpsad
Joined: Oct 15, 2002
Posts: > 500
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@ppcrockar
yeah your right... i kinda like the 6100... But still nokia was able to come up with these phones in a span of time... unlike ericsson which is once in a blue moon!
www.photos.panelo.com
www.panelo.com
www.bilog.panelo.com
www.pbalive.panelo.com |
djk
Joined: Oct 06, 2002
Posts: 217
From: Hong Kong
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In my opinion, I don't think Sony Ericsson will die......
Just look at the functions of what Nokia new phones provided,
not so innovative or I can say very boring.
They are more or less the same as 7210 and 7650,
but just add some little stuff into each new phone.
For instance, a low quality camera in 7250,
PIM functions in 6800,
some funny features for active users in 5100,
smaller and lighter in 6100,
colour screen and java in 8910i,
and a upgraded version of 3410 - 2100.
They all not surprising for me,
and I don't know why,
I am not interested on all of them.
I have owned a 7210, and I just found it is really boring
and not really nice for me to use.
I would rather use a T300 to get a better feeling and better voice quality.
The biggest problem SE phones have is QC - Quality Control.
Many people always blame on this aspect.
What I want to see is SE can improve the QC,
but not just release some exciting phones with poor quality.
(T68 is a good example. Its microphone quality is poor!)
(Also, the memory system in T68 platform has many problem,
which memory will be eaten by the system suddenly......)
Anyway, I believe that SE will bring a lot of exciting new products shortly to us. |
Super G
Joined: Mar 07, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: France
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@pprockar:
high-end phones do not have as much margins as low end phones, cheap to build. In fact, money comes from low-end phones. High-end phones are expensive to build, and if you want to sell them well, you can't give it a too high margin that would make the price tag unaffordable.
@ Knut G:
Nokia have and continue to create the market. This is their strength, beside a very strong brand. SMS has boomed because Nokia understood it the right way. MMS will boom for the very same reason. Of course MMS is just an example.
Now, on releasing n phones within the same market segments (again Nokia hasn't been surpassed in logistics, unlike SE for instance) it does make a lot of sense. They offer choice to consumers! And that's what consumers want, choice! Everybody is different! You can for instance buy a Volkswagen with different "casing": VW, Skoda, Seat... They're built on the same platform, have many common parts, often the very same engine i.e. relatively cheap to build, yet they are different with slightly different prices. But in the end the consumer is happy, and they all sell! It sells much better than if there were just Golf to choose from.
Regarding 1million of 7650 phones sold (Nokia knows better than analysts how much of these it has sold... and how much they will sell) it is a very high number. Don't forget it is a high-end phone, and only a handful of these high-end phones compared to the global mobile phone markets are sold. |
ppcrockar
Joined: Mar 04, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: Sweden
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@Super G
Well.. I think there are better profit margins on a high-end phone like the T68 than mass market phones. People are willing to pay for high-end phones. It's not much more expensive to manufacture a high-end phone. The components are not that much more expensive. Sure the components cost more but not that much more. But the development cost split on each phone will of course be higher since you don't produce as many. But still the High-end phones can be very profitable indeed.
But on the other I think Nokia has made most money on the Nokia 3210 and 3310. It's the almost the exact same phone (like most Nokias), just some design changes. That is why Nokia could make all thoose money. Because they have almost zero development costs, since they just change designs nothing new... And also they never do enything innovative anymore, they just let other manufacturers test stuff out and then they put the same stuff in their phones and create many similair phones. And they have done that very well so far.
But the competition will be much harder in the next few years. You have to make something innovative otherwise you will loose market share. I bet most phones will come from Asia in a few years...
And I think SE's chance is to be the innovative company that makes phones that attracts people who wants a little more from their phones, not just a standard phone like Nokia.
I think Nokia is a little off with their new phones. Most people that can afford expensive phones doesn't want wierd designed phones they want discreat and stylish phones... not some wierd design.
And young people who like strange designs can't afford these expensive phones anyway. I have a hard time seeing any of these new phones as a huge seller.
[ This Message was edited by: ppcrockar on 2002-11-04 15:38 ] |
ShibbyLicious
Joined: Jul 25, 2002
Posts: 290
From: UK
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k so nokia appear 2 b sellin shedloads etc etc
but in reality althoigh it seems a lot it is nowhere near the amount forecast and by mots accounts nokia is struggling - not critically but compared 2 just a yr or 2 ago it is definitely uderperforming
se is still growing although a little slowly for everyones liking
i agree that se make the best high end phones just because they have 100% connectivity
b4 7650 i cud not think of anuvver nokia fone that did it all in a neat package - t68i did all this and more, it did wat nokia 'does best' personalistauon : themes etc
nuthin that has bin sed has been wrong or 'pathetic' (that was harsh) it depends on what your perception of the market is - personally from working within the industrry nokia are shitting themselves and throwing out underperforming products
are releasing steadily (yes i kno p800 is disastrously delayed) top phones bag full of features well designed(thnk u sony) and easy to use (thnk u ericsson)
the main problem is brand recognition IMO - nokia is just THE brand tthat the 'yoof' market is aware of and waht businessman are aware of with their 6210's and 9210's
is a good brand but is that strong
my comparison wud b nokia vs is like sony vs grundig
both make top kit no odubt - (yes grundig actually won awards in hi-fi and video fileds this yr) but which one wud u rather buy !??!?!
shibby
sony and ericsson made sweet sweet love and gave birth to ickle baby P800, though rather than making peeps happy by bein premture he was a bastard and bout 3 mnths late 
@ pprockar - i agree  |
Knut.G.
Joined: Mar 12, 2002
Posts: 149
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Super G:
Glad u are able to post concrete arguments, instead of the "pathetic" namecalling u did earlier, it makes discussions a lot more fun.
Fact nr. 1:Nokia sold 650 000 SYMBIAN handsets in Q3 2002. That includes the communicator, so that means less than that total is 7650. These are the only sales numbers I can find, so unless u dig up some links to actual sales numbers, these are the only official ones.
Link: http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t412-s2124352,00.html
Fact nr. 2:High end phones have much higher margins than low end phones. The problem is that development costs are higher, so unless u sell shitloads, high end phones will make u less money. Manufacturing costs are not much higher.
Proof:The Nokia 5110 was the same as the 6110, but without the IR port. If u changed the software and got a new face, a 5110 could become a 6110.
Nokia does NOT sell a lot of high end phones these days, and that is the problem, because their low end phones sales are in trouble. Compare those measly 7650 sales to that of the T68, u will see what I'm talking about. The T68 has excellent margins, and sells shitloads. How do I know it has excellent margins?
Proof:The T300 is the same phone(without bluetooth) and sells for half the price. T300 is the new killer phone in the "youth market" and Nokia has nothing to compete with it.
Nokia understood SMS and customization, and they made it big on that, but after that, they haven't understood a thing. I can't even fathom why u speak so highly of a company that has so little innovation.
They were almost last to produce a small factor colour GSM phone
They were almost last to introduce MMS into their handsets
They followed SE's 2 year old attachable camera approach
They have innovated nothing in using camera with MMS, again following SE's lead.
They were almost last to produce a functioning Bluetooth phone
They innovated customization of the phone, only to not develop it further since the 6110.
They were last to the market with a Bluetooth headset
etc....
Do u seriously mean they are a innovative company?
-Knut
[ This Message was edited by: laffen on 2002-11-04 16:20 ] | |
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Posted: 2002-11-04 14:28
