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The letter I sent to SE CEOs about firmware - Incident closed! Solution! |
cloroforme
Joined: Oct 18, 2005
Posts: 18
From: Brazil
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Hola Dan
nice to see that you've made good with the list.
Look, i just had my situation solved today. A guy from SE Brazil just left my office. he brought me a brand-new w800, transferred all my settings to the new phone via bluetooth and tadah, its working again with the old r1L firmware.
well, they had the kindness of giveing me as a gift a beatifull mousepad, a neoprene case for the phone for use when doing sports, and a bluetooth headset. not bad. the guy, who is a technician on the w800, had a w750 upgraded to w800. he told me that SE didnt know about the problem before the moment my email arrived on their mailboxes. he said this is not a bug, but rather a "setting change" on the memorystick management. he said SE will add to their website how to turn-off this setting and have the phone back to work again.
marcus | |
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mwjdavies
Joined: Aug 22, 2005
Posts: 85
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Excellent letter, and gr8 to see you got a hald decent reply from them and not the bog standard.
Here's hoping they do take account of what you said and the next release really is a fix and improvement to the bugs listed.
Has the other guy come through yet??
**************************************
I aim to fail, and then do so. Is that success or failure. |
dontknow
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 12
PM |
Quote:
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On 2005-10-31 18:04:05, cloroforme wrote:
the guy, who is a technician on the w800, had a w750 upgraded to w800. he told me that SE didnt know about the problem before the moment my email arrived on their mailboxes. he said this is not a bug, but rather a "setting change" on the memorystick management. he said SE will add to their website how to turn-off this setting and have the phone back to work again.
marcus
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Sorry to say this, but most of it is false.
SE don't have any technichans in Brazil or Argentina. He is proberly just working in a service center or phone repair center. (which is not employeed by SE).
The MS problem is well known for quite a long time. As soon as a device is returned for a failure, the failure will be examined.
It is a bug, not a changed setting. There will be no info about it on SE website, simply cause it can't be fixed without full/partial flash of the phone. (and how often have anyone seen a bug report or change history from SE?)
However, new firmware that will fix the problem, among others, will arrive very soon. Stay patient, it will be available via SEUS and at Your local service center.
About buggy software; Well, I can promise You that the software is going through a lot of testing, but bugs can always slip through. It is impossible to create a bug free software. That is the case with all software!
Sadly there were some quite big bugs introduced in R1L and R1N, lets just hope that R1AA will be spared. |
cloroforme
Joined: Oct 18, 2005
Posts: 18
From: Brazil
PM |
hello SE employee.
doesnt matter if its a SE technician or not. indeed he wasnt (i found that out later), its a third party company that provides service to SE.
anyway, he brought me a solution thru a new phone without this bug. as you said, there are others. i showed one to this guy here at the office, by the way.
One of the guys i taked at SE (yes, he is an employee of SE, at least he signs his email as Latin America CCC Manager and IS/IT Coordinator
), said a new release will be available only by week 48, not before.
anyway, i am glad to see that you guys @ SE are finally reading what your consumers write. it shouldnt be necessary to write a msg to your president for having you guys doing so.
cheers |
Dan_Aykroyd
Joined: Sep 13, 2005
Posts: > 500
PM |
Well, some Fabio Juvencio wrote me an email yesterday telling me that they were trying to reach me to the cell number I left and that it was wrong (which wasn't), so I'm still waiting for them to contact me.
For the name (Juvencio), I think he might me portuguese...
@cloroforme:
May it be the same guy you talked to? Since his signature is:
Fábio de Castro Juvęncio
Latin America CCC Manager and IS/IT Coordinator
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[ This Message was edited by: Dan_Aykroyd on 2005-11-01 21:33 ] |
fullforce
Joined: Oct 12, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: Sweden
PM |
Am i allowed to swear and use curses and foul language here?
Well i surely want to!
I picked up my "repaired" W800i with firmware R1NA005 tonight and do you think they have fixed it in any way? Off course not!! I specificly told them to put firmware R1L002 back, but nooooo they did not do that...They re-flashed it with R1NA005. Then i called the famous or imfamous call centre and the told me that SE donīt have R1L002 anymore. So im stuck....or we are stuck...yeah yeah there will be an new firmware, and a new one and a new one...but who wants to wait and hope, crossing their fingers, to se if the next firmware will be at least a shaddow of what R1L002 was. By the way they said that the next firmware will adress the filetransfer issue, but they hadnīt heard of that it would fix anything else!! Bah!!!
I wrote Se call center a letter remainding them of Esato (us) and our complaints and bluntly asked them if it is supposed to be like this?
I also asked them if they can replace my W800i with a "old" W800i with the R1L002. Hmmm i think i also will send the same mail to one off the excecutives. Im mad! One off my points is all software have bugs, yes, but these firmwares are not nearly tested enought before release!!
GRRRRRRRRR!!!
[ This Message was edited by: fullforce on 2005-11-02 18:24 ]
[ This Message was edited by: fullforce on 2005-11-02 18:28 ] |
fullforce
Joined: Oct 12, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: Sweden
PM |
i just spoke to a third party repair shop the SE uses here in Sweden and they say that they now arenīt allowed to use or update phones with R...035 and R....005 firmware. And they donīt have acces to the good old R1L002 since SE has it on their server. So i donīt think we will ever see that firmware again!
Iīm gonna try to press SE to fix this but i doubt tha anything will happen. Makes me so p***ed of that we are in the total mercy of SE and their software developers. Because the only thing you can do is to return your phone and get your money back...and where does that leave you? I donīt think that there is another phone brand out there that has the features exact to the letter. |
GsMen
Joined: Jul 16, 2002
Posts: 133
PM, WWW
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they lie
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fullforce
Joined: Oct 12, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: Sweden
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Sorry i might be a bit thick, but i do you mean that this is from a SE-server? I donīt see any firmware for my model W800i |
victorh017
Joined: Jul 24, 2005
Posts: 379
From: Caracas, Venezuela
PM |
@Dan
Excellent letter! Felicitaciones, realmente te esmeraste. 
Quote:
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On 2005-10-28 11:50:33, Firefreak wrote:
Anyways, I'm not saying that I don't want SE to test their firmwares better just that you have to understand the process. Stop updating to the latest firmware until you know its safe.
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I couldn't agree more. I Still have R1L002 on my K750i. And I'm planning on taking the phone to a  service center to do the update.
@dontknow
Quote:
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SE don't have any technichans in Brazil or Argentina. He is proberly just working in a service center or phone repair center. (which is not employeed by SE).
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Are you sure about that??
Yesterday I bought a K300i as a "back-up" phone and I was a little bit amazed to see that it is made in Brazil. (See pics below).
I didn't even know had factories in this part of the world. (South America)
So IMO I think they might have a few technicians in that factory, unless is all 'robotized'.... 
 CMDJ5 > T230 > T610 > K700i > K750i > K810i > K850i > G900 RED > C905 Gold |
GsMen
Joined: Jul 16, 2002
Posts: 133
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Quote:
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On 2005-11-03 20:01:15, fullforce wrote:
Sorry i might be a bit thick, but i do you mean that this is from a SE-server? I donīt see any firmware for my model W800i
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W800 and K750 have same list, both types have version R1L in the "emma3" server (official sony-ericsson service centre soft)
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Gigs
Joined: Jan 19, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: The planet Snibertron!
PM, WWW
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quote: (dontknow)
It is impossible to create a bug free software. That is the case with all software!
Well that much is true. Not like is the only manufacturer guilty of this.
quote: (cloroform)
doesnt matter if its a SE technician or not. indeed he wasnt (i found that out later), its a third party company that provides service to SE.
So this makes them what? The SC we have here in new zealand also services nokia, alcatel, motorolla etc... That doesn't make them any less prone to mistakes either. It also doesn't mean is going to tell them every little thing as well.
quote: (cloroform)
anyway, i am glad to see that you guys @ SE are finally reading what your consumers write. it shouldnt be necessary to write a msg to your president for having you guys doing so.
Development time isn't instantaneous. Im sitting here waiting on my sound card manufacturer getting back to me about 64 bit drivers for their product, they take a hell of alot longer than any esatoian has gotten even the normal feedback replies from
Just because a company isn't putting something all over a webpage doesn't mean it isn't doing anything. (unless of course they're my soundcard manufacturer.. lol)
quote: (fullforce)
By the way they said that the next firmware will adress the filetransfer issue, but they hadnīt heard of that it would fix anything else!! Bah!!!
Because we've all seen the changelogs put up with new firmware right? ... Unless, I guess, you're an employee or someone in their development side, you don't get to see whats being fixed or not, else we'd all be able to look it up on the web  (I kinda like reading changelogs lol)
Doesn't mean they won't fix anything else though.
Quote: (firefreak)
Anyways, I'm not saying that I don't want SE to test their firmwares better just that you have to understand the process. Stop updating to the latest firmware until you know its safe.
Bravo. Rome wasn't built in a day, neither are firmwares. (As esato shows well some people even after updating experience no problems at all, others do)
You can't be an early adopter of firmware/program updates/OS service packs/whatever and NOT expect there to be problems. If you do, you can't totally blame the manufacturer, some things do get through. (Heck its one of the reasons I won't touch SP2 with a bargepole.. SP1 works fine for me and XP)
Bugs are always a pain in the butt, but they'll get fixed. Just like the K700 really, mine was flawless, hasn't crashed, works perfectly, and I mean that. Only updated the software to see if the battery life improved and it wasn't that bad to begin with for me. To this day it still works sweet though a friend has it. The same will happen with their other phones. |
fullforce
Joined: Oct 12, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: Sweden
PM |
Gigs
I have to disagree with you. You commented my text: "By the way they said that the next firmware will adress the filetransfer issue, but they hadnīt heard of that it would fix anything else!! Bah!!! "
What i ment with that was that i just didnīt believe that SE hadnīt heard of any aother issues than the ones with the file corruption. And IF they didnīt no about any other issues, then they really have put their head in the sand. Yes they do not have to inform me about all of their issues in developing, i just made a comment on SE:s answer to me.
And iīd say that most of the people that have "upgraded" their firmware have issues with it.
Your comparision with windows XP is limping. I do believe that windows XP i a little, tiny bit larger then the firmware in a telephone. So XP has a hell of a lot more code and thus should have much more bugs. But a computer works fairly good in spite of that, doesnīt it?
While my phone and many others have grave issues with many of the functions (camera, file transfer, mp3 player and more). These problems add up to that the phone canīt, with fairly good quality, do much more than make and recieve calls. That is if you have, as i have, serious problems with file transfer, camera and the mp3 player.
And what SE have done is released, for reasons unknown, a firmware that makes the phone much much lesser in its functionality. Somewhere on the way from developing via testing to release they have, in my opinion, made a blunder. Yes there are always bugs in software no matter how much you test it! But you have to set an acceptable level of bugs. And i think that most of the people that have my issues, or some of the issues, agree with me. And SE HAD a fairly good firmware in the first batch of the W800i. If you compare the first firmware with the newer ones you can easy come to the conclusion that the newer firmwares sucks bigtime! And in my oppinion it is not acceptable to go from fairly good to catastrophic when it comes to firmware.
I have studied basics in programming and have worked at Ericsson so i think i know i tiny, little bit of what iīm talking about.
Note: I donīt have any statistics of how many people have problems with their phones after updating their firmware but iīm confident that most of them have serious problems with their phones.
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max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
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I agree with you up to your last paragraph. There is no reason to believe that most peeps with R1N have problems. There is no real information on this whatsoever.
My feeling is that people don't post when everything is hunky dory, so all the posts here about poor R1N performance aren't necessarily representative of all R1N users.
But that said, regarding those who do have the problem, I do think it's a shame SE seem unwilling to return R1N handsets to R1L.
R1L is perfectly acceptable firmware, even if it does have bugs. The file transfer, camera and mp3 player all work. It seems to me that while the firmware issues with R1N may be difficult to solve, putting phones back onto R1L would be a perfectly acceptable short term solution to the R1N problems.
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Dan_Aykroyd
Joined: Sep 13, 2005
Posts: > 500
PM |
Well well well... today was the day
Was going to the office (bank) to work, got called on my cell by a nice girl who told me wanted to meet me to get to know each other (?) a little... where I said? Sony Ericsson headquarters (Argentina)... well, it was far from where I was, but she told me "don't worry, we'll send you a driver to pick you up, then send you back to where you have to go with him to"... and so it happened; he came to pick me up, took me there. Well... there I met with the girl (some product manager or something) but wasn't 'techy', then the men came. That 'Guillermo' I told you about before... he is the CEO / Manager of latin america tech coordination or something along those lines. We talked... FINALLY, I talked to a pro... you don't imagine the feeling of ACTUALLY talking to someone (like we in the forum) that REALLY understand the phone working, the firmware, the bugs, etc etc; not only a front desk who only types down what SHE thinks the problem is.
We had an informal talk, told him of the bugs I found, WE found (the forum), then he gave me a personal card to send him the issues so he can update in the bulletin to be checked by the programmers in USA. Told me they didn't know about the problem, they REALLY relied on me to know which was working, to know the bugs, since the couldn't test the phone for it was rushed to a launch date.
My letter (high quality, I must say  ) really moved something; I felt great being really helpfull and "important" for a while.
Well... after this, the gave me a brand new phone, changed the sim, a nice hard-case (metal) of the W800 and... a gift; an HBH-600 bluetooth set brand new; valued in 100 USD... so I was "wow...". Then we said goodbye, and the driver took me all the way to downtown back to the office.
So I must say it was some great experience... feeling, at least, and at once, really being taked care of. It was really good, and the first time it ever happened to me. So now, Sony made a new lifetime client.
As an add-on, they also told me a lot of people complain about phones, but that the errors are most of the time from their part (users), and that besides, being this a high-end marketed phone, they DO take care of the customers. Plus, my letter was very good  and I talked at the same level as him, like if I was an engineer (which actually I'm studying )
Also, the service centers doesn't have the previous versions of the firmware; only they (SE) has them. So, he told me "we could reflash your phone back but... we'd rather give you a new one"
Hope I helped with this description, and give it a try... you may get some really good service in the process.
EDIT: I even squeezed in some words that made me look good like "firmware, R1L002, R1N035, card reader, IMEI, and such"!
[ This Message was edited by: Dan_Aykroyd on 2005-11-05 02:50 ] | |
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Access the forum with a mobile phone via esato.mobi
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Posted: 2005-10-31 18:04
CMDJ5 > T230 > T610 > K700i > K750i > K810i > K850i > G900 RED > C905 Gold
