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2004 USA elections |
*Jojo*
Joined: Oct 15, 2003
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Hallelujah . . . Amen to that ! | |
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richy240
Joined: Jan 24, 2003
Posts: 465
From: Houston, Texas, USA
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On 2004-11-03 17:18:07, scotsboyuk wrote:
@Grimslade
I don't think Bush is unintelligent, he couldn't have gotten where he is today by being as stupid as people make out. The reasons I do not support Bush are very simple;
He acts without taking the opinions of the rest of the world into consideration
He seems to care very little for the environment
He (along with our own glorious leader) initiated a war against Iraq, which has now cost many thousands of lives and his continuing Presidency will almost certainly mean additional foreign troops will not be sent to Iraq resulting in more American and British casualties as the chance for a unified international settlement will be greatly reduced
He seems to allow his religious views to effect his political decisions; I was under the impressiont hat Church and State were seperate in the U.S. (I have nothing against Christianity, I would hold the exact same view if Bush were Jewish, Muslim, Hundu or anything else)
I think that the charge of foreigners assuming Americans are stupid is a poor defence used by people to justify their indignation. I do not consider Americans stupid per se, I'm sure there are many that are, just as many Britons are stupid. I do, however, think that those Americans who voted for Bush have done so for the wrong reasons.
The one view of America that does seem to hold up under scrutiny is that many Americans are very insular, to the point where many have little or no understanding orappreciation of the world outside. As powerful as America may be it does not exist in a vacuum and the rest of the world's opinion does matter. Bush's policies are increasingly pushing the rest of the world away from America, with the end result that new power blocs will be formed, which may very rob America of the power that Bush so desperately seeks to protect.
Europe, for example, already has a larger combined economy than the U.S. and has the economic and technological capability to act as a rival to the U.S. in the immediate future. China has this same capability, but over a longer time period. What will happen to Iran or North Korea? Will Bush attack either of these nations? I don't see that he would get much support for either venture, even from Britain, unless that is he does so before our next election.
The end result is that you may very well consider Bush a good president, as millions of Americans obviously do, but there are also millions of Americans, not to mention billions of non-Americans who must be looking at this election and thinking that the world has turned upside down. I genuinely hope that Bush does do a good job, I think we all do; unfortunately I have the feeling that his idea of a good job is probably not the same as most of rest of the planet.
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God damn man... Again, well said. I wish I could ahve said it, but I don't have the patience to type something like this without screaming and just giving up. You're not going to change his mind, and you probably won't even give him anything to think about.
Bush supporters are simply like that, generally speaking.
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Grimslade
Joined: Jul 25, 2004
Posts: 464
From: London
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@scottsboy: Thank you for an intelligent and well-considered reply.
@richy: When you have to resort to insulting the intelligence of a person you've never met, I'm going to consider that I've won the argument. I certainly am not going to dignify insults with argument; it's not worth my time. I've lived in Belgium five years, btw.
[ This Message was edited by: Grimslade on 2004-11-03 16:24 ] |
Ayush
Joined: Sep 12, 2003
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From: Hyderabad, india
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So has bush won?
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Grimslade
Joined: Jul 25, 2004
Posts: 464
From: London
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@ayush. Yes. Kerry has given up. AP reports that he told Bush the country is too divided as it is, a very statesmanlike gesture, I think.
@richy: One last time. It's a neat trick to criticize someone else's supposed close-mindedness when all you can do is toss around insults.
[ This Message was edited by: Grimslade on 2004-11-03 16:27 ] |
richy240
Joined: Jan 24, 2003
Posts: 465
From: Houston, Texas, USA
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On 2004-11-03 17:23:50, Grimslade wrote:
@richy: When you have to resort to insulting the intelligence of a person you've never met, I'm going to consider that I've won the argument. I certainly am not going to dignify insults with argument; it's not worth my time. I've lived in Belgium five years, btw.
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You already have dignified my insults, but keep in mind I am not deliberately insulting YOU. I am just expressing my honest opinion. I am sorry you fall under the Bush-supporter category, it is not my intention to call you a bastard, or stupid or anything like that. I would say the same thing regardless of who YOU personally support. I meant no harm; I do apologize that you feel my opinion is insulting.
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Grimslade
Joined: Jul 25, 2004
Posts: 464
From: London
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@richy: What I consider insulting is that you called me stupid and close-minded, since you said that Bush supporters are those things, and I, as you know, am a Bush supporter. |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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@Grimslade
As richy240 said, I am probably not going to change your mind regarding support for Bush, but I would like to know your thoughts on the widespread and intense resentment felt towards America, not only amongst the Arab world, but amongst America's allies too. I accept that there are many people who are biased against America because it is the 'in thing to do' or because they don't have a full understanding of the facts, but there are approximately four hundred million people in Europe alone, and polls show that the vast majority of them are far from fans of Bush or, for that matter America; surely not all of these people are ignorant or making rash judgements. This doesn't take into account the rest of the planet either. It is almost unbelievable that the U.S. could have gone from a position of almost universal adoration and respect at the end of WWII to a position of almost universal resentment and dislike today.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
richy240
Joined: Jan 24, 2003
Posts: 465
From: Houston, Texas, USA
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On 2004-11-03 17:24:51, Ayush wrote:
So has bush won?
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Oh Jesus Christ, we're all gonna die.
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richy240
Joined: Jan 24, 2003
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From: Houston, Texas, USA
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On 2004-11-03 17:29:34, Grimslade wrote:
@richy: What I consider insulting is that you called me stupid and close-minded, since you said that Bush supporters are those things, and I, as you know, am a Bush supporter.
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I said ignorant, not stupid.
ig·no·rant adj. - Lacking education or knowledge; Showing or arising from a lack of education or knowledge: an ignorant mistake; Unaware or uninformed.
I may have said closed-minded, and if so, I stand by that remark.
I also called you evil.
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[ This Message was edited by: richy240 on 2004-11-03 16:37 ] |
Ayush
Joined: Sep 12, 2003
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From: Hyderabad, india
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@richy might be that you need specs. It was a question.
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richy240
Joined: Jan 24, 2003
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From: Houston, Texas, USA
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On 2004-11-03 17:36:18, Ayush wrote:
@richy might be that you need specs. It was a question.
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No, I saw what it says. I was answering you.
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Grimslade
Joined: Jul 25, 2004
Posts: 464
From: London
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@richy. Oh, right. Evil, ignorant and close-minded. Sorry I got that wrong. |
richy240
Joined: Jan 24, 2003
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From: Houston, Texas, USA
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On 2004-11-03 17:38:14, Grimslade wrote:
@richy. Oh, right. Evil, ignorant and close-minded. Sorry I got that wrong.
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Not a problem. But keep in mind, correcting what I said above, I didn't call you specifically evil. Just Bush supporters in general.
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[ This Message was edited by: richy240 on 2004-11-03 16:41 ] |
Grimslade
Joined: Jul 25, 2004
Posts: 464
From: London
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I mean, what kind of a--hole goes around talking about other people like that, Richy? What have I done to you? We disagree about politics; it is the height of closemindedness to attribute ill-motives and ignorance to those who disagree with you. It's too bad you don't see that. | |
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Posted: 2004-11-03 17:19
