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SE failing in producing good phones? |
shery
Joined: Nov 08, 2006
Posts: 55
From: pk
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@ QVGA
which means 24000 rs?
experience is a hard teacher it gives the test first, the lesson afterwards | |
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MWEB
Joined: Feb 13, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: somewhere nicer than you
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@ QVGA, £300 is about the average UK price for that model, I can only quote relative prices for MY home market, as i'm sure your aware price's are bound to vary country by country.
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max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
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On 2007-05-20 14:21:05, sapporobaby wrote:
@Max,
I hear you about the touchbased input. I had the entire SE gambit, starting with the original P800. After SE decided that they will not support Apple products and then proceeded to blame this on Apple I switched to Nokia where they have proclaimed publicly that Apple product support is a big part of their future. From there I moved to the Linux based Nokia N800. Nice device but the touch screen input was simply not up to par. For me, I would be willing to bet that I can complete tasks just as fast, if not faster than you with your touch screen.
Put a beer on it mate? 
Anyday  Actually it's flexibility not speed that I like about it. In windows for example I can move around the interface very quickly using the keyboard, much faster than with a mouse. But the mouse is lazier and more enjoyable, I find the same thing with TS. (also some pointing or dragging tasks are just TOO slow with a joystick based pointer).
However on text input it would be a very interesting challenge - I use character recognition and when I'm using it all the time I get pretty fast  So your on buddy!
_________________
File System Tweaks for the K750 K750 Tricks
[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2007-05-20 15:04 ] |
Dogmann
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: London England
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@Max,
Well seeing as sapporobaby is using a E61 I'm afraid if i was a betting man i would have to back him to win.
One of the things that has surprised me about this device is just how quick and easy both data entry and navigation is on this device. To say this is simply the best device i have used so far would be a major under statement.
The E61i is not enough of an upgrade to be of interest for me and the E90 no longer seems that attractive any more, i will hang on for the next true successor before upgrading as the only thing i can think of being needed is HSDPA everything else for me is just perfect on this device.
Speed is more than fast enough stability is 100% not a single crash or freeze or low or out of memory warning and i have 25.2mb Ram on start up and never below 20mb even after a week plus of heavy and intensive use plus the 1500aMh Li-polymer just goes on and on even Tom Tom fails to seriously effect it.
I apologise as i seem to of wandered way off topic here but in case you hadn't noticed i really do rate this device as simply the best i have had and used, the only thing i regret is not finding it sooner.
Marc
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Nokia E61 2gb Sandisk, Fring, Tom Tom 6, AD-46 with Black Shure EC2g
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-05-20 15:38 ] |
sapporobaby
Joined: Sep 14, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Finland. Kuwait maybe :)
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On 2007-05-20 16:03:05, max_wedge wrote:
On 2007-05-20 14:21:05, sapporobaby wrote:
@Max,
I hear you about the touchbased input. I had the entire SE gambit, starting with the original P800. After SE decided that they will not support Apple products and then proceeded to blame this on Apple I switched to Nokia where they have proclaimed publicly that Apple product support is a big part of their future. From there I moved to the Linux based Nokia N800. Nice device but the touch screen input was simply not up to par. For me, I would be willing to bet that I can complete tasks just as fast, if not faster than you with your touch screen.
Put a beer on it mate?
Anyday Actually it's flexibility not speed that I like about it. In windows for example I can move around the interface very quickly using the keyboard, much faster than with a mouse. But the mouse is lazier and more enjoyable, I find the same thing with TS. (also some pointing or dragging tasks are just TOO slow with a joystick based pointer).
However on text input it would be a very interesting challenge - I use character recognition and when I'm using it all the time I get pretty fast So your on buddy!
_________________
File System Tweaks for the K750 K750 Tricks
[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2007-05-20 15:04 ]
I'm pretty fast Max, and Dogmann would take your money.
Hey Dogmann, my friend got the E61i. Very nice and even faster than the E61. Has a nice camera as well, but my favorite right now is the N95. Even with is quirks, I still rate this as the best phone I have ever owned.
*edited on a Mac of course. Mac: There is no substitute*
N82(YES), iPhone 3G, Shure es530, Nikon D300, more stuff. No more SE stuff, why am I still here? |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
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Maybe, maybe not. But the fact of the matter I much prefer "writing" as opposed to madly punching keys on a tiny keypad. It's not a speed issue for me; my method is not slow, even if it isn't as fast as your own. Which we still haven't tested btw
I use T9 on my K750, it's way faster than not using T9. But I still get the shits using it. If I can't have a full sized keyboard, then I prefer handwriting.
I think it's a mistake to argue that a touchscreen is or isn't a better method of input. It's not an issue of speed, it's an issue of preference plain and simple. Some people prefer them and it's not because they are grossly incompetent or need to be corrected in how they use a hardscreen, and certainly not because they are so useless they can't match the lightning speed of true hardscreen advocates such as you guys.  I'm as much a phone-head as you guys and I've been playing with phones since the analog days - I'm satisfied I'm not missing anything about how to use a hardscreen.
We who like touchscreen's just want to be able to continue to use one without our efficiency as a phone user being brought into question. That's what it feels like everytime I mention that Nokia don't support touchscreen and suddenly all the Nokia advocates are trying to convince me of the error of my ways
I prefer a touchscreen and you won't change my mind about this. I will concede one point and that is that if one does have a touchscreen on a phone, it should have a 5 way controller and a few softkeys, as this gives the phone both the flexibility of navigation of a touchscreen and the speed of navigation of a hardscreen.
On this score, SE disappoint. For that reason so far the only smartphones that have appealed to me are WM (I own a couple). P1 is georgeous, and I am very impressed with it, but without even a dpad it's useless to me.
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sapporobaby
Joined: Sep 14, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Finland. Kuwait maybe :)
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On 2007-05-21 01:44:10, max_wedge wrote:
Maybe, maybe not. But the fact of the matter I much prefer "writing" as opposed to madly punching keys on a tiny keypad. It's not a speed issue for me; my method is not slow, even if it isn't as fast as your own. Which we still haven't tested btw
We will have to think of a way to test.
If you like the touch screen, you might want to look at the Nokia N800. It is Linux based. I had one but did not like it in the end. I got rid of mine.
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*edited on a Mac of course. Mac: There is no substitute*
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[ This Message was edited by: sapporobaby on 2007-05-21 01:42 ] |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
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N800 is an option, will have to look into that one a bit more. Still leaves me with two devices, but that's what I'm doing with my xda mini/k750 combo anyway.
My poor old xda mini data port is cactus (courtesy of the swim in a swimming pool a customer gave it before they wrote it off and threw it in my direction). Everything on it works except data transfer by cable. (charging works, just not data transfer). So everything is by card reader or bluetooth. Also, I'm sick of having to keep the battery charged or remember to do backups. It has great standby (over a week) but sometimes it's more than a week between uses!
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Dogmann
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: London England
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Hi Max,
You know i am more than happy for you or any one else that prefers a Touchscreen to use one. After it all it used to be my preference to, but unlike you i never used handwriting recognition my method of of choice was the on screen keyboard which just goes to prove yet again we all have our preferred method's and whats good for one isn't for all.
Like you i get very tired of touchscreen users saying you can't do this or that with out a touchscreen. Really wish we could all get over it and just accept we all have different preferences and just because it is right for us doesn't make it right for all it really is that simple.
Marc
_________________
Nokia E61 2gb Sandisk, Fring, Tom Tom 6, AD-46 with Black Shure EC2g
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-05-21 12:28 ] |
anonymuser
Joined: Dec 17, 2002
Posts: > 500
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Just for the record, phones like the P1 and its predecessor the M600 don't need a D-pad. The scroll wheel, in combination with the soft-key buttons on the screen itself, provide for all the one-handed menu navigation you need. In my opinion it's the perfect form factor - all the convenience of a touchscreen but perfectly optimised for one-handed use, with a QWERTY available at all times, and no need for bulky flips or slide out shenanigans. It's something people just don't get until they've spent some time with it, but it's well worth trying.
Personally, I wouldn't do without a touchscreen either, making me one of Dogman's mortal enemies. It provides a whole extra layer of user experience and convenience that no keypad-bound phone can ever get close to - so in my opinion yes, they are a pre-requisite for a real smartphone, and no, the Nokia solutions to date simply aren't good enough. Series 60 may do an amazing job in what it does, but it doesn't compete with UIQ on any level that counts. In all honesty, I'd choose a P800 over any of their current models (resale value aside!)
As things stand, the P1 is the obvious choice for my next phone, and there's literally nothing else on the market that might dissuade me of that. |
Dogmann
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: London England
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@Boinng
Are you really incapable of reading and understanding what i write?
"You know i am more than happy for you or any one else that prefers a Touchscreen to use one."
That seems pretty clear to me which part of the statement appears to confuse you?
As for your next statement whilst i can appreciate that this is your preference and opinion it most certainly isn't mine.
"It provides a whole extra layer of user experience and convenience that no keypad-bound phone can ever get close to - so in my opinion yes, they are , and no, the Nokia solutions to date simply aren't good enough. Series 60 may do an amazing job in what it does, but it doesn't compete with UIQ on any level that counts.
Again this is just rubbish it may be the case for you but most certainly isn't for me my current device the Nokia E61 is in a different league to the M600 as if it wasn't i would still be using a M600 wouldn't I? As for a touch screen being a pre-requisite for a real smartphone that is just laughable.
Also if your assumption about touchscreens is correct how come there are more happy non touchscreen users of smart phones then? as that wouldn't make sense as every one would be using a touchscreen which is not the case is it.
My E61 has more available RAM, is faster has a much better screen, WiFi ,loads of apps available both free from Nokia and 3rd party. It has a much better Music Player and video playback. The home screen and general navigation also offers far better options only if and when the M600 gets the same OS as the P1 will this improve almost a year after launch. It has both a native in built SIP client for VOIP and can run Fring with all the benefits that brings. The full qwerty keypad is much better and the build and construction is also better, it has a 1500aMh Li-Polymer battery that lasts days even with heavy use. The PC Suite and even the software updater is also better than the SE offering. Sorry the M600 is still after 9 months odd not even close to being as good as the E61 and seriously doubt it will ever be. But you wouldn't know this would you i have owned and used both devices and if the M600 really was better i wouldn't of changed it for an inferior device as that would just make no sense.
Marc
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Nokia E61 2gb Sandisk, Fring, Tom Tom 6, AD-46 with Black Shure EC2g
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-05-21 14:44 ] |
skylineR35
Joined: May 03, 2006
Posts: 279
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hmm.. okay.. i don't think i want to disturb but i think it'd be better to stop debating like this. this doesn't even on topic either...
those who like nokia go for it, those who like se go for it...
if everybody have same query and preference then this world will become monotone... let this world be colorful... |
anonymuser
Joined: Dec 17, 2002
Posts: > 500
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On 2007-05-21 15:43:50, Dogmann wrote:
That seems pretty clear to me which part of the statement appears to confuse you?
All the obvious contradictions that come before and after it, in virtually every post you've made on the subject
As for your next statement whilst i can appreciate that this is your preference and opinion it most certainly isn't mine.
Who suggested it was? You think differently, that's fine, I just believe that you're wrong. I'm entitled to think that, especially if you are wrong, obviously.
Again this is just rubbish it may be the case for you
Yes, it is.
but most certainly isn't for me
That's your opinion, something I think has already been well established.
my current device the Nokia E61 is in a different league to the M600 as if it wasn't i would still be using a M600 wouldn't I?
How should I know (or care) why you use an E61? I'm sure the E61 is your favourite thing in the world, but with no touchscreen and a desperately uncomfortable keyboard (yes I have tried it) it's nowt special to me.
As for a touch screen being a pre-requisite for a real smartphone that is just laughable.
Actually, according to the original Ericsson document that first defined the concept of a "smartphone" and coined the term, a touch screen is literally a pre-requisite for a smartphone, and I tend to agree with them. To date, a touchscreen is still the only interface that really allows the user full, natural, instant and accurate control over what is, in essence, both a phone and a pocket computer. How many PDA's have you seen with a hard screen and a T9 keypad? Think there's a reason for that?
Also if your assumption about touchscreens is correct how come there are more happy non touchscreen users of smart phones then?
Because there are approximately a million more non-touchscreen models available, and the majority of their owners barely even know they have a "smartphone", let alone attempt to make full use of their features. The S60 Nokias you're talking about (from the 7160 onwards) are bought for "fun" and multimedia, and because (yawn) they're Nokias, not because they have the best input methods imaginable. Ford sell a lot more Fiestas than Ferrari sell anything, but that doesn't mean they're faster.
My E61 has more available RAM, is faster has a much better screen, WiFi ,loads of apps available both free from Nokia and 3rd party.
And I still wouldn't give it house room, cruel world isn't it.
It has a much better Music Player and video playback.
"Much" better?
The home screen and general navigation also offers far better options
It'll never out-navigate a touchscreen interface, sorry. Especially one which can also be used one-handed, like the M600's.
only if and when the M600 gets the same OS as the P1 will this improve almost a year after launch. It has both a native in built SIP client for VOIP and can run Fring with all the benefits that brings. The full qwerty keypad is much better and the build and construction is also better, it has a 1500aMh Li-Polymer battery that lasts days even with heavy use. The PC Suite and even the software updater is also better than the SE offering. Sorry the M600 is still after 9 months odd not even close to being as good as the E61 and seriously doubt it will ever be. But you wouldn't know this would you i have owned and used both devices and if the M600 really was better i wouldn't of changed it for an inferior device as that would just make no sense.
Oh, it might make sense if you just got so cheesed off at SE's poor software support for an unfinished phone that you jumped ship, ironically just before the M600 actually got the update it needed and turned into a much, much better device, and never lost your feeling of bitter resentment against SE, and all the happy users of UIQ3.. it would make perfect sense in those circumstances.
I'm not saying the M600 is better than the E61 (or any other Series 60 phone) in every possible way, it's just better in the most important ways. That's my genuine opinion, and the one that informs my decision to choose the P1 next.
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[ This Message was edited by: Boinng on 2007-05-21 15:25 ] |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
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On 2007-05-21 13:27:14, Dogmann wrote:
Hi Max,
You know i am more than happy for you or any one else that prefers a Touchscreen to use one. After it all it used to be my preference to, but unlike you i never used handwriting recognition my method of of choice was the on screen keyboard which just goes to prove yet again we all have our preferred method's and whats good for one isn't for all.
Like you i get very tired of touchscreen users saying you can't do this or that with out a touchscreen. Really wish we could all get over it and just accept we all have different preferences and just because it is right for us doesn't make it right for all it really is that simple.
Marc
That's fair enough too, I completely agree.
When ever it comes to an argument about which is better, Nokia or SE, it invariably comes down to someone who prefers Nokia saying that Nokia phones have the best of everything and therefore shit all over SE. In those cases I bring up the touchscreen not to say you can do things with it that non-touchscreen can't, but just to remind people that touchscreen is just as much a relevant technology when discussing whether a phone really satisfies all segments of the market (price indifferent). If a large segment prefers touchscreen, not because it's better or worse but just personal preference, then Nokia N95 et al is not the all-in-one solution that Nokia fans claim. It may be for THAT PERSON, but not for the overall market.
I only ever claim Touchscreen is more suitable to my purpose, but then I get shouted down about how useless I must be if I can't use hardscreen properly. It shits me it really does, because it's not about not being good enough at hardscreen. It's just what I like and I get sick of people thinking they can dismiss touchscreen completely in debates about a phone's mass appeal, simply by claiming a touchscreen is a worse input method than hardscreen s60, and therefore should be dismissed out of hand.
The fact is, Nokia ignore the fact that there are people who prefer touchscreen. Because they can't get their crap together on symbian touchscreen support, they put it in the too hard basket. Then Nokia advocates have the gall to claim SE are fighting a losing battle with UIQ3 because s60 is better. How is s60 better when it completely ignores a whole market segment? The fact is SE are trying hard to maintain an OS that supports touchscreen and what they perceive as their core PDA market segment. I applaud SE for sticking up for this segment, when Nokia couldn't give a rats.
BTW dogman, I don't see you as one of those people I am ranting against. But there are a lot of them on the forum, I'm sure you could name a few yourself. There are certain "Nokia" people whom I respect (you, mib to name two) who atleast listen to argument and give reasons for their own arguments. Then there are others who just want to dump on SE and SE users and use put-downs to make their point instead of rational argument.
So I wish we could put it all behinds us too, but it seems there are just too many Nokia fanboys lately who see it as their mission to point out the stupidity of every SE user they can with the use of unconstructive and unsupported commentary.
This is a SE forum, and all are welcome. But as you say, it would be nice if we could just discuss phones on their merits without people coming in and and making a crusade out of one or the other. (whether SE or Nokia)
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MWEB
Joined: Feb 13, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: somewhere nicer than you
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Some very good stuff written above by all concerned, but the golden rule is, Never expect everyone to have the same, needs,wants,desires in a mobile as oneself.
Never be dogmatic (or stupid) enough to believe that ONE brand holds ALL the answers.
Honestly after years of running the biggest multi-brand forum in the world experiance has taught me there is nothing more sad and annoying than a brand fanatic who ALWAYS just sees ONE side of the coin!!.
We can and should appreciate and understand one anothers points of view!!
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If it needs saying, then i'll say it!!
I dont have a brand preferance, i like ALL brands!!
[ This Message was edited by: mweb6161 on 2007-05-21 16:03 ] | |
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Posted: 2007-05-20 15:36
