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Sony Ericsson XPERIA X1 discussion |
anonymuser
Joined: Dec 17, 2002
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The issue isn't 3rd party software, just poor quality software, wherever it comes from.
Again it goes back to the difference between a real computer, and a phone with some add-on functionality. If you install poor quality software on your computer then you're likely to run into problems; if you exercise a little care then it'll be fine - the same applies to WM6.
Symbian is less susceptible simply because it's less powerful, and much more limited in what it will allow the user - or their software add-ons - to actually do in the first place.
[ This Message was edited by: Boinng on 2008-03-25 12:36 ] | |
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aksd
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@mib
Maybe your friend does'nt know how to use WM, I have over 60+ apps installed, no problems whatsoever, he needs to maintiain registry, make sure the right apps are stored in the right places, such as storage or device etc..
I have a Nokia 6600 and its worthless as a phone or a smartphone, its so slow that it takes me ages to open messaging, and it crashes on me several times a day. Symbian 9.3 with S60 FP2 sucks because my 6600 cant perform well 
And iam running SPB apps on my TyTn2 with no issues, maybe you're using a cracked version, sometimes the cracked version has some issues.
Mind you I'm not anti S60 or anti any OS, but mindless criticism of any OS imo is uncalled for. You must first understand whom the prodcut was trgeted at before criticizing a product, I seriously doubt the TyTn2 was aimed at school going? kids.
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[ This Message was edited by: aksd on 2008-03-25 13:31 ] |
Dogmann
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
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Hi all
I totally agree that a lot of problems with all platforms can usually to be traced to some piece of 3rd party software that causes a conflict and is why i only ever install what i actually need, rather than just what looks good or impresses.
Some here keep mentioning that WM is more powerful for real computing needs and can do more real computing type apps would anyone like to elaborate on just what they feel WM can do that S60 can't As i am pretty sure most if not all can be achieved by adding software to S60 but would be interested to see just what you feel WM can do that S60 can't as see if this is a correct assumption or not.
Marc
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-03-25 13:30 ] |
aksd
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@Marc,
1. We'll for one writing an app for WM is so much more easier no Symbian signed crap.
2. You can run scripts, scripts are basically code without a UI that can do tiny little helpful things for you.
3. While Symbian supports C++(in symbian form) and Java to a limited extent in WM I can program in C, Pascal, C++, .NET, J2ME(different JVMs offer different capabilities), J2SE(limited extent) with a certain JVM. Thus you get freedom to program.
4. Very few restricted APIs(Symbian signed again). The restricted APIs make Symbian a bit less powerful.
5. Symbian though has a few advantages with better hardware-software interaction as the number of types of devices are more limited and controlled by Nokia, while WM is developed on a wide range of platforms the hardware-software interaction is not as portable as Symbian(eg: answering machine software works on very few hardware platforms in WM).
6. WM offers open access to most of th system files, making editing the OS much easier.
7. You can see how much more can be written on WM by looking at the apps available, battery gauges(tell you about the battery output at the sec), temperature gauges, replacememt shells, stuff like Wisbar, none of that stuff on Symbian other than gdesk which I have'nt used so cannotn comment upon. I'm just listing a few apps which are at the top of my mind, maybe symbian have similar. The sheer number of apps for WM(many of the fully free) outnumber the symbian ones although there are more Symbian phones, this itself is proof enough about how much easier it is to program powerful apps for WM
I am at the moment a beginner at programming and these are the few advantages I can list out, regarding core programming we'd need a developer who develops for both platforms to comment. Eventually you might have similar apps, but to achieve the end result is a much more tedious process than with WM only due to symbian signed, but Symbian signed is excellent for the end user, it heavily restricts the type of apps to be installed thus making the platform more stable, but its a developers nightmare(at least a beginners).
Hope this answers your question, or if you want a more technical one I can get back to you on that.
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[ This Message was edited by: aksd on 2008-03-25 13:54 ] |
mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
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@aksd:
In terms of IDE, wm definitely have the advantage but symbian is not far behind. Scripting (in the form of python) is available. Plus .NET support is in the work.
For us end-users, we are just interested in capability provided by the platform. Like you say, you will be hard-pressed to find a good call manager (incl. answering m/c) or call recording for wm. And I still can't find a profile manager for wm that work as well as bestprofile/handyprofile in S60. And some other apps that come to mine are: native lotus notes sync, upnp support and themes. And lastly (though this is nitpick) why can't wm has a clock screensaver that is visible at the time without draining the battery.
What WM excels is the standby screen with its plug-ins like showing at a glance info like weather etc.
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aksd
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@mib
.NET on the Symbian is worthless imo if theres still going to be symbian signed, its still going to be difficult for the tiny developers. And you're still going to have the restricted APIs THAT is what makes symbian a bit less powerful.
Thats what I've been trying to say, if a particular device does'nt cater to your needs does'nt make it inferior, I dont have need for an answering machine or a profile manager, all i need is ring+vibrate or vibrate, thats about it, I need raw processing power , so I go WM, does'nt mean Symbian is any less just becuase I dont use it . Its upto the consumer to decide what he wants in a phone and purchase accordingly.
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Dogmann
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
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@akd
I actually didn't mean apps that people write themselves but want to install as just how small a percentage of people need to do that really. I was talking more about things like Symb allowing full WiFi file sharing and remote access and the other types of functionality people wish to add, although i admit WM does indeed have more available apps many of them are duplicates.
But as you say we all want different things from our devices so choose what suits us best and have no problem with that as personally i hate the look of some of the WM home screens as for me they look far to busy but that's just what i like. But when it come to Multimedia S60 is far more powerful then even the to be released X1 as that mainly supports only 3gp not h.264@ 30fps as for h.264 it drops to 15fps.
Marc
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-03-25 19:34 ] |
SIGHUP
Joined: Jul 27, 2005
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Yep, it always comes down to what the individual user needs are. X1 looks tempting. Has almost everything I need. But I have yet to see how the true function of a phone like dialing a number is achieved.
The whole window panels or windows whatever they call it, doesn't appeal to me very much. This is why I ended up with an n95. Trade-offs. Low battery life. But oh well. I'll carry a charger in my pocket or a SOLIO.
As far as I know the X1 doesn't have TV out right? Deal breaker for me. |
max_wedge
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On 2008-03-25 20:33:35, Dogmann wrote:
I was talking more about things like Symb allowing full WiFi file sharing and remote access and the other types of functionality people wish to add, although i admit WM does indeed have more available apps many of them are duplicates.
I'm curious why you think those examples aren't available on WM??
Are you saying you can't use WM as a remote access terminal or to access files by wifi? Both those are one of the things I use most on my HW6900. I regularly access files on my home network, and regularly use the HW6900 to term serv into my customers servers. Or VNC when they don't have RDP (example Win2k machines).
It's possible the other way too, but I rarely need to remote access my WM phone. I usually use Active Sync to grab files off my HW6900.
tbh honest I've always found it easier to use WM for these types of things than S60.
You are right though for the end user s60 and WM are identical in the sense that the end user just wants functionality that can be added easily and here having the right app to do so is the most important aspect. WM has far more application support than s60, including duplicates.
But to call s60 handsets "mini-computers" is only comparable to using windows only to install and run programs. If you like tweaking (above and beyond installing and using apps), then WM is unbeatable as far as the ability to firstly: program and script stuff yourself, and secondly: dig into the OS's guts and tweak it without the aid of anything more than a reg editor and a text editor.
I know this doesn't make a difference to the average end user, but for tech heads it does.
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Dogmann
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@Max
No i was asking what WM has in the way of available apps either free or paid for that S60 doesn't which is what is being suggested. Not as askd has pointed out the ability to write your own apps or reconfigure the registry but what S60 is missing that WM has.
As IMO the majority of users have little or no interest in being able to write their own apps or mess around with the registry they want it just to work and do what they want easily. As for writing your own apps that really is geeky and far beyond most users needs or what they want from their device IMO.
People are happy to claim WM is more powerful and can do more yet i can't really think of many if at all any apps or functions that be achieved on a WM device that can't on a S60 Device. Well not that a lot of people would want or need and when it comes to Multimedia IMO WM is definitely less powerful.
As for it being wrong to call some S60 devices mini computers i disagree completely my E90 is smaller has more Ram and more processing power then either of my Toshiba Libretto's had running Win 95 or NT and does all they could and more. It may surprise you that i have never had any interest or need to write my own apps or tweak registries besides which i wouldn't even know where to start and would think neither would the majority of users either. Those that would and want to are definitely the minority IMO.
Marc
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-03-26 00:46 ] |
BobaFett
Joined: Jan 06, 2004
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there are many sites to download tons of apps for symbian os or wm, i wouldnt either mess around with my fone, if there is a better and easier way to get what i want 
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aksd
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@Marc
Its far easier to set up a PAN with WM rather than Symbian. You do have Wi-FI sharing etc.., which I hardly use as we dont have many Wi-FI networks which are accessable in India. I generally set up a bluetooth PAN which takes me less than 3 secs and it took me like 4 days with an M600i lol.
You are confusing with "hardware" power to "OS" power. The only reason Symbian is better at multimedia is because of better hardware at the moment. Does the N95 record h.264 at 30fps? I think the SE was about recording at h.264 at 15fps, not a big issue really, but playback should be at 30fps, anyway thats not the point here. If on identical hardware WM is more powerful. At the moment we're not comapring the X1 to the N95 . The h.264 is NOT a software limitation. If you say that Symbian phones are better at Multimdeia than WM phones, I will wholeheartadly agree with you but saying SYmbian is better than WM in multimedia is nonsense.
You E90 has far less processing power than your first comp even if it was just 60Mhz, I dont suppose you read through my processor posts otherwise you would'nt make that statement. Just because a device has RAM does'nt make it a computer. If you release a computer with the restrictions Symbian has, it'd fail on the market and get booed out of the industry.
Just because the techheads are a minority does'nt mean that our needs should'nt be catered to. And thats why we celebrat the X1 .
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mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
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@aksd
NET on the Symbian is worthless imo if theres still going to be symbian signed, its still going to be difficult for the tiny developers. And you're still going to have the restricted APIs
I think you are confusing platform security with capability.
Yes, you can tweak WM in whatever way you want and in this aspect WM is more powerful. But in other area like of OS supported services Symbian has the upperhand - case in point is call recording, profile, multimedia capability and accelerator type capability.
I generally set up a bluetooth PAN which takes me less than 3 secs and it took me like 4 days with an M600i lol.
On S60 it took me a couple of minutes to setup home media streaming (thru upnp + wifi). Does WM support upnp yet? Or how about built-in support of SIP?
If you release a computer with the restrictions Symbian has, it'd fail on the market and get booed out of the industry
This is left to be seen. Symbian signing restriction is bad for people who want cracked software or hackers. On the other hand WM is a haven for these people. But it is very bad for manufacturers/operators who have to pick up the mess when inexperience users brick their phones due to the easily corruptible and unrestricted OS. Because of this some operators only offer WM on their business plan so this restrict the availability and increase ownership cost of WM handsets.
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aksd
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WM6 has built in support but for some reason HTC have removed the drivers which are available.
I dont have WiFi, so you could say WM offers more flexibility as I find it quite easy to set up a Bluetooth PAN . I'm not too dependant on networking and generally use my edge connection for sending recieveing mails so I really cant debate on the networking side of things.
Please read my above post, at accelerator side of things is hardware dependant.
Of course its not left to be seen, how do expect the smaller devs to do anything with Symbian Signed, if I need access I have to shell out my entire life savings on one screwed up licesnce, courtesy SYmbian, which eventuall enters Nokias very large coffers. Sorry mate,thats no what any small time programmer wants. Bottom line I really don care about the manufacturers as I;ve seen how they work from the inside, so lets not go into that. Most of the manufacturers are cheating the end user wheather you like to admit it or not. Do you know why Linux is a hit, no restrictions, imagine the outrage if MS closed down your entire OS, dont give me a "That is yet to be seen" answer because thats bullshit. I irks me that a company is so full of itself that it actually charges for you to write software for ITS platform. Like MS with Visual Basic you have to PAY to develop for them. Symbian signed would be a good thing if all APIs were avaialble free of charge and if you had to run it through SYmbian to make sure it does'nt harm the OS. BUT actually paying for restricted APIs and keeping APIs restricted wtf is that.
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max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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On 2008-03-26 04:34:33, aksd wrote:
Of course its not left to be seen, how do expect the smaller devs to do anything with Symbian Signed, if I need access I have to shell out my entire life savings on one screwed up licesnce, courtesy SYmbian, which eventuall enters Nokias very large coffers. Sorry mate,thats no what any small time programmer wants. Bottom line I really don care about the manufacturers as I;ve seen how they work from the inside, so lets not go into that. Most of the manufacturers are cheating the end user wheather you like to admit it or not. Do you know why Linux is a hit, no restrictions, imagine the outrage if MS closed down your entire OS, dont give me a "That is yet to be seen" answer because thats bullshit. I irks me that a company is so full of itself that it actually charges for you to write software for ITS platform. Like MS with Visual Basic you have to PAY to develop for them. Symbian signed would be a good thing if all APIs were avaialble free of charge and if you had to run it through SYmbian to make sure it does'nt harm the OS. BUT actually paying for restricted APIs and keeping APIs restricted wtf is that.
spot on aksd. It's not that we expect end users to write their own software. But the more open a system is, the more small developers write freeware, and the more variety of freeware is available. This makes a smartphone more expandable and useful to people who don't want to fork out $30 (or more) for every app they want. This is what has frustrated me about s60. Freeware apps (good ones) are a lot harder to find for s60 than paid for apps. I have (like aksd) sourced a shitload of freeware apps for WM devices. I use about 20 on my device at anyone time, and have about 100 or so that I use from time to time. That represents $3600 worth of programs in Symbian money (where I have to pay for the same thing). So a $1000 N95 would cost me $4600 in total to get the same functionality as my WM device at $1000.
Not good maths imho.
The fact is, much functionality for which WM offers a multitude of freeware solutions has NO freeware at all on the Symbian platform.
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[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2008-03-26 03:46 ] | |
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Posted: 2008-03-25 13:18
