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Sony Ericsson XPERIA X1 discussion |
aksd
Joined: Nov 11, 2005
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On 2008-03-23 12:23:25, mib1800 wrote:
aksd:
An in the WM world the X1 is going to outsell any of its competing devices for sure.
This is a bold statement given that the X1 is made by HTC. 
Why is it bold,?the market its targeting is far larger than any WM device before it. So what if its made by HTC, you actually think SE make their other phones as well? or Nokia or Motorola? A lot of the production is out sourced(I was told this by a high up in Motorola Manufacturing, India). And we both know the people who've sworn wont buy HTC again most probably will buy another HTC as no other WM phone offers as complete a package as HTC does.
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Dogmann
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
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@askd
Everyone loves an optimist but sorry some of what you say is just not right first point is why is everyone saying the X1 is a multimedia powerhouse as reading the White paper shows video is only 30fps VGA in Mp4 h.263 and WM in the all important h.264 it drops to 15fps and h.264 will not be in the US models at all so just what is so brilliant? am i missing something?
Now as for the Networks will love this device and run it instead of their branded HTC devices i seriously doubt it as that makes no sense for them at all.
Also WM is not the de-facto dominant standard for smart phones far from it and sorry but SE really are not the major player you see them as either as being 4th with under 10% and falling a major player does not make them. As for the SE faithful maybe it has escaped your notice as to just how many of these users have now lost faith in SE and moved to other manufactures. They have done this for two reasons one is the lack of up to date spec's in their devices but worse is their lack of faith and trust that SE will deliver and support there needs.
As i said everyone loves an optimist but i really don't think your vision of the future is what will happen HTC have been producing devices for quite some time and have a good user base the idea all their users will swap to SE for a more expensive device is unfounded IMO. But as you say only time will tell on all of the above and how it plays out but i for one have serious reservations about your conclusions.
Marc
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-03-23 22:17 ] |
aksd
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@Marc
I am not being optimistic, I seriously dont even care about SE or any other manufacturer, I have issues with every manufacturer out there, I love operating systems and their hardware, more Operating systems more competition eventually better products for the end user.
You are seriously misunderstanding my posts or I'm not making my point clear enough.
You of all people know that Symbian is the smartphone market leader, and this is because of Nokia, linux follows behind symbian with huge sales of linux based motorolas in the last few years in China with WM behind these two major players(one major and the other one much smaller but bigger than WM).
SE in WM terms is HUGE! HTC have waht like a >2% market share worldwide, this being a very optimistic value. Its not just how many of the X1 will sell, but what the X1 will do in bringing WM to mass market. HTC as of now is a niche market manufacturer, Sony Ericsson is mass market. You must look at this not from the Nokia perspective of 50% market share but from a WM point of view, even if the X1 does'nt sell in huge numbers, even moderate sale for the product(I predict good slaes in its category though, but lie you siad its dependant on what the competition has to offer), its going to be good marketing nonetheless for WM, look at the number of people who will now consider getting the X1 on this forum who before would'nt have touched a WM phone.
An increase in WM's market share in the smartphone market is good for users of smartphones as it'll keep other OS makers on their toes, like what the iPhone and Android will do. You can see Nokia slightly stagnating their hardware and going a wee bit lower with the N96 because theres really no competition for the year and a half old N95. We dont want that to happen.
I hope you see my point when I see that SE going WM is good. And I hope I;ve got my point across this time round 
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Dogmann
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
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From: London England
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@askd
The reason Nokia are not pushing the envelope any further is basically they have reached the limit of where the available tech can take them. Remember they first launched VGA 30FPS Video recording in the N93 and since then have added HSDPA to many of their devices. No one knows why Nokia have chosen the chip they have for the N96 but it would be a reasonable guess they had good reason for it maybe it's t do with DVB-H. I really wouldn't start to write Nokia off just yet as soon they will have the OMAP3 powered devices with boot times of seconds and all the improved performance that chip will bring, not of course forgetting the the Touch S60 UI is also coming removing one of the only unique selling points SE had for it's own smart phone UI.
Now just how are you going to split all the SE users between UIQ and WM and have both being successful there really aren't enough users there to support both platforms.
As i said we hold very different opinions on just how well the X1 will do in the market and really we will just have to wait and see how that pans out. But if everyone that uses SE for their smart phones does go down the X1 route that really want be good for UIQ will it.
Marc
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-03-24 00:14 ] |
aksd
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@Marc,
I think you're a wee bit off the mark here, especially where the available tech thing is concerned. They still had a few mor features to extract from the OMAP 2 processor such as USB OTG, a bigger resolution screen and improving on the battery.
I've worked very closely with the Motorola R&D teams as well as the SE distributors in India, and in my experience they have the tech, Motorola had a prototype of a 3.2Mpx AF phone 3-4years ago, a Ming running WM and a lot more stuff which if I go into details would swing this topic way off topic, the only reason they dont release the tech is compromise on future products and at that moment its not economically profitable.
The only reason the N96 processor is weaker than the N95 one is becuase they've targeted at two different segments and all manufacturers run on a minimilastic approach, the bare minimum to do a particular job. The N96 is targeted as a video and to an extent audio device, not an all rounder as the N95 is, therfore they've plonked a processor that renders hardware acceleration for video. Gaming was'nt a priority, the 82 and 95 is there for that.
Arrrgh! The X1 is NOT expected to lure all SE smartphone lovers, its mean to increase their target area by entering the WM market. Not all SE fans are going to buy the X1 not all WM fans are going to buy the X1, but a bit from both will, this is what will constitute majority of its sales.
wow! I'm getting exhausted with my long replies
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razec
Joined: Aug 20, 2006
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From: Mars
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@Dogmann and askd:
Any further details on the N96 processor? how does it compare (technically) to N95's cpu?
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BoyBawang
Joined: Nov 02, 2007
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On 2008-03-23 04:27:48, aksd wrote:
You really cant tell if Symbian is going to be faster than WM or not and even IF WM is slower it'll be slower by less than a second, more like a few milli seconds hardly noticeable. Also since we are specualting that Symbian is faster theres no real proof as at this moment you dont have two identical devices running both OS present you really cant tell.
Thanx.. But which Symbian UI are you refering to? usually it's generalized to s60 which is understandably lighter than WM. But UIQ3 might be another story because i believe it has some overhead for being Touch Screen and more overhead for it's flexibility to adjust to multiple screen orientation..
So that few milli seconds u mentioned become less apparent now with UIQ3 do u agree? |
aksd
Joined: Nov 11, 2005
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Its made by SMT, its the STn8815P14
Link: http://www.st.com/stonline/pr[....]rature/bd/14379/stn8815p14.pdf
Its ARM 9 with only 16kb cache 
@BoyBawang
The only UIQ phone I have owned is the M600 and at the time I was'nt as technical minded as I am now, I thought it was fast enough at the time lol. Anyway I purchased a P1i for my grand dad which I used for a day, and as you say the response time is very much improved over the M600i, its on par with my TyTn2 running light, a wee bit slower maybe but hardly makes any difference in day to day usage. You must remember that once you open up your menu settings apps once after a reboot the second time is much faster as the programs are loaded onto the RAM, this is what makes the P1i faster than its predecessors. That intial load up time is faster in the N95 only because of the faster processor and myabe better optimization of the UI on the OS, as we know UIQ is extremely short handed when compared to S60. An actual comaprison can be made only by benchmarking them on andidentical hardware platform.
But dont you think we're getting a bit off topic here .
[ This Message was edited by: aksd on 2008-03-24 07:05 ] |
razec
Joined: Aug 20, 2006
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WHat's exactly the difference between ARM9 and ARM11?
10 years at Esato |
aksd
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We'll in layman terms not much, ARM 9 vs ARM11 goes waay over my head, only the hard core processor programmer guys actually know the advantages in practice. But as an end user its go a more efficent system, better 3D performanc, and updated instruction sets to ARMv6 from ARM v5 . The programming model is supposed to be superior.
This article will shed more light on the subject: http://lamipc54.epfl.ch/embed[....]roarchitecture+White+Paper.pdf
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[ This Message was edited by: aksd on 2008-03-24 07:10 ]
[ This Message was edited by: aksd on 2008-03-24 07:11 ] |
razec
Joined: Aug 20, 2006
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From: Mars
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^^
Well the SMT(N96's processor) whitepaper says the cpu clocks at 393Mhz(400Mhz almost) does faster CPU frequency really sucks more battery? life i am really bothered about the battery life of the N96 then given it's 900+mAh module 
one more dude i hope it's okay, do you have any whitepaper for the MSM7200A cpu of X1?
btw, many thanks 
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aksd
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I do not have one for the MSM7200A but I do have one for the MSM7200, got it just before it was brought down
I hope a rapidshare download is ok? http://rapidshare.com/files/101903370/MSM7200_Chipset.pdf.html
Regarding the battery life, its going to be low initially as it is, then you'll find a N96 updated version in hte near future with a bigger battery LOL!. A few more cycles per second wont affect the battery life too much. The RAZR2 uses a 500Mhz freescale processor with a 770maH processor and has about 5 hours talk time.
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razec
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On 2008-03-24 08:23:53, aksd wrote: The RAZR2 uses a 500Mhz freescale processor with a 770maH processor and has about 5 hours talk time.
So the software has something to do with this right? so if nokia manages S60 to be as efficient as linux then probably they wouldn't encounter serious battery issues then? also, i do hope S60 v9.3 FP2 has a better program code fascilitation
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aksd
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Linux if not optimized still wont be efficent any properly written code will be efficent if they've kept that in mind. But its a huge question mark on how well the N96 will perform.
My TyTn2 you can actually control the power consumption, you've got apps that tell you the amount of battery drain, I've managed to drop it to 1maH, so if I keep it in standby with 1maH my phon will last me 1600 hours . Thats why I love WM, you can kill processes control each and every aspect of your phone like a comp.
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razec
Joined: Aug 20, 2006
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From: Mars
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interesting askd, now i learn something new about WM
do you know something about the "carousel UI" WM6 has to offer?
10 years at Esato |
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Posted: 2008-03-23 12:58
