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Sony Ericsson XPERIA X1 discussion |
razec
Joined: Aug 20, 2006
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From: Mars
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On 2008-03-22 03:26:45, aksd wrote:
@razec
I remember reading its based on the ATI 2300 but dont quote me on that I'm not sure, but will get back to you on this.
Reagrds,
Akshay
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[ This Message was edited by: aksd on 2008-03-22 02:34 ]
The theory that ATi 2300 does not support more than 2mp camera resolution simply axes that bud  and 2300 chip is now very old, and it can't do VGA @ 30Fps video that's why Qualcomm has to use a faster/newer GPU to make VGA encoding possible. but anyway thanks for your info-rich posts 
btw ATi M100 is formerly known as 2294/2298 series - the top of the line series for ATi graphics CPUs
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[ This Message was edited by: razec on 2008-03-22 03:08 ] | |
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mario2004
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@Aksd Where can I see the power consumption of that thing? A 1Ghz processor will definitely need some hefty cooling even by pc/laptop standards where space is not so much of a issue 
Imagine - cell phone with build in fan for the ladies to dry their nail polish The aux power supply can be carried comfortably in the superbly styled, SE purse.
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aksd
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@razec,
My apologies on the error then, I have not researched much into the Ati chip in the Qualcomm, but strangely enough theres nothing mentioned in the Qualcomm MSM7200 product pdf(which is no longer available online for some reason) about specific details on the imageon architecture used. You must remember theres no seperate ati chip, just the built in architecture. And as you say its most logical(After reading around a bit ) that the Qualcomm employs an architecture similar to the M100.
@mario
They were available on the site. But 1Ghz RISC(reduced instruction) is'nt the same as 1Ghz on the comp, totally different ball game. Much lower power consumption.
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Dogmann
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
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Hi askd
You do realize that is not the complete specification for the series 3 chip's but only the baseline as the chips will range between 500mhz to 1ghz and until they are actually released no one really knows the full spec's.
Also has anyone else noticed that video recording and Playback is only 30fps in 3gp and only 15fps in H.264 and as we know h.264 offers a much better quality, unless of course you buy a US version and then h.264 is not there at all.
Sorry but unlike some of you i just can not get excited by the 9 panels experience really making that much of a difference whilst it may be nice i just can't see it being a killer application. I also wonder just how many like Max will disable this interface and just return to the WM6 interface for practicality purposes.
But it will be interesting to see just what it has to compete with by the time it is released and how it will fair if it is more expensive then similar units from other manufactures.
Marc
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-03-22 13:03 ] |
aksd
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On 2008-03-22 14:03:18, Dogmann wrote:
Hi askd
You do realize that is not the complete specification for the series 3 chip's but only the baseline as the chips will range between 500mhz to 1ghz and until they are actually released no one really knows the full spec's.
Also has anyone else noticed that video recording and Playback is only 30fps in 3gp and only 15fps in H.264 and as we know h.264 offers a much better quality, unless of course you buy a US version and then h.264 is not there at all.
Sorry but unlike some of you i just can not get excited by the 9 panels experience really making that much of a difference whilst it may be nice i just can't see it being a killer application. I also wonder just how many like Max will disable this interface and just return to the WM6 interface for practicality purposes.
But it will be interesting to see just what it has to compete with by the time it is released and how it will fair if it is more expensive then similar units from other manufactures.
Marc
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-03-22 13:03 ]
Of course Marc, its incomplete, and I see your point but if you are into processors or programming you'd know that the lack of instruction set on its own would make it a tad slower as well as the drop in Mhz, of course the final implementation is a big question mark but as it stands(pre-release basic specs ONLY) the Qualcomm is better wheather you'd like to accept the fact or not, and this would remain a big question mark even after their release unless two similar devices running the same OS were to use both the processors, your boot up time and overall performance is dependant on several factors such as how well optimized the OS is for a particular processor, the screen resolution and several other factors that if I were to elaborate would make this post terribly boring .
Your point o nthe 9 panel is well founded, its not an OS replacement but an app launcher several similar apps are already available to the WM user such as SPB modile shell and PointUI, so this is basically a marketing gimmick and would'nt make the OS anymore finger friendly that it already is.
WE'll I doubt many would disable it as its nice eye candy to show off and use occassionaly.
We all know that its going to be ridiculously expensive , but people are going to buy it as its an SE, its going to be well built(hopefully, knowing hTC it should be) and its got the 3D drivers, your going to see thousands of TyTn2 users and other WM buyers as well flocking to buy it contrary to what most say because bottom line most WM users being the techo geeks they are will want one(due to the 3D acceleration and well rounded specs, the only previous WM PDA with decent acceleration was the Dell Axim x51), then you're going to have the SE loyalists who are going to fall in love with it and open a brand new world of mass modding .
Whatever said and done what SE are doing I feel is right, I'm not a windows lover I've used almost every possible OS phone(linux being my frist prefernce) out on the market but I feel WM is one of the most misunderstood OSs out there and the X1 might be the phone to change peoples mindsets.
Regards,
Akshay
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Dogmann
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@askd
I agree with most of if not all of your conclusions especially about unless we get the same OS running the different processors it is virtually impossible to know which actually performs best in the real use.
But we know that Symbian is less processor intensive then WM and Michel over at My Symbian reported last year that at a Madrid event he witnessed a OMAP3 S60 Device boot in about 5 seconds which i find pretty impressive and suggests a huge leap in performance as expected from these chip's.
However WM is not the dominant Smart Phone OS and if the X1 is more expensive than WM devices from other manufactures i really can not share your optimism that all will flock to the X1. Except maybe the SE faithful but that number is smaller than it used to be as most are aware of SE's behavior towards it's users, so i really don't think that number will be anywhere near large enough to make the X1 a huge success, but only time will tell. A lot will depend on just how expensive it is and just how good the other devices available by the time the X1 launches are. The second half of this Year promises to be interesting for those of us interested in Smart Phones.
Marc
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-03-22 13:50 ] |
max_wedge
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X1 may be more expensive than some of the lower end WM's, but high end WM's are in the highest price range of any class of phone available, so I don't expect X1 will be more expensive than equivalent WM's.
And if it has the video performance to best other WM's (remains to be seen whatother WM's are in the pipe line) then it should be a goer.
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aksd
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On 2008-03-22 14:50:38, Dogmann wrote:
@askd
But we know that Symbian is less processor intensive then WM and Michel over at My Symbian reported last year that at a Madrid event he witnessed a OMAP3 S60 Device boot in about 5 seconds which i find pretty impressive and suggests a huge leap in performance as expected from these chip's.
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-03-22 13:50 ]
I was waiting for this :D:D. We'll the thing is it really is'nt so much more processor intensive than Symbian as far as I know. If by processor intensive you mean it has a whole lot of crap running in the background, maybe, if you mean each app consumes more of the CPU, Yes of course if it has'nt been optimized for the architecture, this has been solved to an extent with SYmbian due to symbian signed(imo SYmbian has become so closed its almost not a smartphone in the truest sense of the word, but this is'nt a discussion on Symbain vs WM). On these counts you may be right, BUT you cant say it is so processor intensive that it makes a very big difference on day to day usage, this I beg to differ, small almost negilgeable difference yes, big one no.
I think I have mentioned earlier on my-symbian that I think the OMAP3 is a wonderful processor BUT it just is'nt as good as the fully implemented next generation Qualcomms. Let me make this a little more end user understandable, we can clear up a bit on this processor confusion.
CPU speed is not the end all in any benchmark, its just a rough comaprison between similar architecture devices, such as ARM is compared with ARM and x86 with x86, the cpu Mhz is nothing but the cycles per second, the amount of work done per cycle varies from CPU to CPU.
CPU performance is also is dependant on your cache and your instruction set, now your processor does not understand english commands but all it understands is addresses in the form of 0's and 1's if the cache is bigger you can have a lot more addresses in stored in the cache for the next instruction to get executed thus reducing the fetch time, our current generation processors have 16-32kb cache while the OMAP3 a 64kb cache and the Qualcomm a 128kb cache, this is one of the reason why the OMAP feels far superior to the current gen OMAP and this is why I think the qualcomm will be faster.
Also the instruction set is improtant, now the processor works on interrupts and several other instructions, the bigger the isntruction set the better, more instructions means better working of the processor the OMAP3 is 64kb RISC which is again double 3 times our current processors which makes such a big difference in daily use. But it would be wrong to assume that the OMAP3 will blow away the competition like the OMAP2 has done, most probably its going to get some very very stiff competion and might end up being the inferior processor, where specs are conecerened BUT not the final implementation.
I am not saying that the X1 will become mass market, but whatever sales it does have is good for WM(it gets a bit more public exposure), and since I'm currently using WM I'm happy as that means more programmers on board, more hacks to be done, more fun with the phone . Regarding people not buying it because of the way SE and HTC treat the customers I think you might be a wee bit surprised at that because as consumers our memory for such incidents is very short term, there will of course be a few you have had terrible experineces and will be put off by SE for a long time to come, but many will return.
And from one smartphone lover to another , wait for Android, I've been looking at the latest SDK and what I see is very pretty , from a user point of view as well as a programmer point of view, more programs( like WM) make the end user happier. Its like they've combined the best of the smartphone world and the non smartphone world, the OS due to the linux kernel is fast, its secure due to it being a hybrid JVM(looks powerful enough to seriously compete with SYmbian). The device to look out for at the moment is the HTC Dream possible May announcement.
I've gone a bit off topic and I apologise but I hope I've made a few processor related doubts clearer.
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[ This Message was edited by: aksd on 2008-03-22 14:20 ] |
max_wedge
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I agree with you on cpu speeds. AMD for example started off marketing their chips using numbers that equated to Intel chips even though their clock speed was 25-50% slower. They had a more efficient instruction set so could perform more instructions per clock cycle than intel. They also ran quite a bit hotter
Going even further back, Cyrix did the same thing. I remember my first 6 gen x86 CPU - it was a 150MHz Cyrix, badged as a P200, because it was as fast as an Intel 200MHz Pentium.
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Dogmann
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
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@askd
Also agreed here that processors speeds count for very little and in fact this supports my point WM uses higher processors speeds than Symbian devices need to achieve a better level of performance. That is what i meant by WM being more processor intensive it needs a faster processor and still doesn't achieve as good a performance.
I think enough of this speculation as all these things are still the best part of 6 months away so lets wait wait and see what happens and only then we will we know for sure whose estimations are right or not.
Marc
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-03-22 19:07 ] |
max_wedge
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On 2008-03-22 16:06:50, Dogmann wrote:
@askd
Also agreed here that processors speeds count for very little and in fact this supports my point WM uses higher processors speeds than Symbian devices need to achieve a better level of performance. That is what i meant by WM being ore processor intensive it needs a faster processor and still doesn't achieve as good a performance.
Yes, agreed, but as long as you don't measure the processor by MHz, but instead measure it by number of instructions per second, which is a more accurate indicator of processor speed.
Processor number of cycles per second is largely transparent to the OS, it's how much work that processer can handle in any given period.
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aksd
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On 2008-03-22 17:30:11, max_wedge wrote:
Yes, agreed, but as long as you don't measure the processor by MHz, but instead measure it by number of instructions per second, which is a more accurate indicator of processor speed.
Processor number of cycles per second is largely transparent to the OS, it's how much work that processer can handle in any given period.
Perfect , and this can be done on cross platform if we have a cross platform benchmark to run the CPU thorugh its paces, I dont believe there is one at the moment though is there? JBenchmark is highly inaccurate as per my findings as the JVM interferes with the results.
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bavlondon2
Joined: Jan 28, 2006
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Whats the latest on release date? When can we expect the first handsets to be sent to reviewers?
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aksd
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The earliest I've heard is August, but personally I feel September-October is more like it. Reviewers getting it would depend on when Microsoft decides to announce WM6.1.
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BoyBawang
Joined: Nov 02, 2007
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I was waiting for this :D:D. We'll the thing is it really is'nt so much more processor intensive than Symbian as far as I know. If by processor intensive you mean it has a whole lot of crap running in the background, maybe, if you mean each app consumes more of the CPU, Yes of course if it has'nt been optimized for the architecture, this has been solved to an extent with SYmbian due to symbian signed(imo SYmbian has become so closed its almost not a smartphone in the truest sense of the word, but this is'nt a discussion on Symbain vs WM). On these counts you may be right, BUT you cant say it is so processor intensive that it makes a very big difference on day to day usage, this I beg to differ, small almost negilgeable difference yes, big one no.
thanks for all the info aksd. I wan't your estimate about how faster is Symbian compared to WM.
Supposing we are to build a UIQ version of Xperia with all the fancy panels at the same level of performance of the WM version. How much should we underclock Xperias 528mhz for the UIQ version just enough to achive comparable performance with WM? 400mhz? or probably lower? | |
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Posted: 2008-03-22 04:06
