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2004 USA elections |
richy240
Joined: Jan 24, 2003
Posts: 465
From: Houston, Texas, USA
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On 2004-11-03 16:25:07, maddav wrote:
Is it good on CNN? Because I've just started watching it, as opposed to BBC and I want to know if it's worth watching or carrying on with BBC 
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I'm just using CNN.com; I don't have access to a television at work.
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Grimslade
Joined: Jul 25, 2004
Posts: 464
From: London
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Woo hoo!!! Bush wins. Four more years, baby!  |
richy240
Joined: Jan 24, 2003
Posts: 465
From: Houston, Texas, USA
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On 2004-11-03 16:35:12, Grimslade wrote:
Woo hoo!!! Bush wins. Four more years, baby!
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Are you kidding?
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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@Grimslade
You shouldn't wear glasses that you don't need to, so please take those rose tinted ones off. 
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
Grimslade
Joined: Jul 25, 2004
Posts: 464
From: London
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Am I kidding about what? That Bush won, or that I'm pleased? Either way, I'm dead serious. Anyone want to place a wager? |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
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From: UK
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@Grimslade
I suppose it doesn't matter all that much to you since you live in Belgium, which will probably not be danncing after Bush in another war. Unfortunately I live in the UK, which probably will. 
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
*Jojo*
Joined: Oct 15, 2003
Posts: > 500
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YES! Bush W I N S . . . I hope, if not . . . I'm DEAD ! |
Grimslade
Joined: Jul 25, 2004
Posts: 464
From: London
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@scottsboy: I live in Belgium, but I'm an American, so I take an interest in these things; it definitely does matter to me, which is why I hope Bush has won (as I think he has).
@axxxr: re your remark on the U.S. and Iran, only someone who has never lived in either place could possibly say something so ignorant. America is a free country, whatever stereotypes you may have about it.
@kimcheeboi: So, where are you packing your bags for? Belgium's nice, if you can stand the weather... |
scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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On 2004-11-03 16:49:10, Grimslade wrote:
@scottsboy: I live in Belgium, but I'm an American, so I take an interest in these things; it definitely does matter to me, which is why I hope Bush has won (as I think he has).
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You are perfectly entitled to your own opinion of course and I don't seek to take that away from you. I just find it sad that that someone like Bush should be looked upon by so many Americans as being a force for good. I think it was summed up best by a news report the American media were carrying (including FOX), when a Brazilian man asked the reporter if Americans didn't get the same news as everyone else in the world, as he just couldn't understand why so many of them would be voting for Bush.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
richy240
Joined: Jan 24, 2003
Posts: 465
From: Houston, Texas, USA
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On 2004-11-03 16:53:11, scotsboyuk wrote:
You are perfectly entitled to your own opinion of course and I don't seek to take that away from you. I just find it sad that that someone like Bush should be looked upon by so many Americans as being a force for good. I think it was summed up best by a news report the American media were carrying (including FOX), when a Brazilian man asked the reporter if Americans didn't get the same news as everyone else in the world, as he just couldn't understand why so many of them would be voting for Bush.
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Well said.
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Grimslade
Joined: Jul 25, 2004
Posts: 464
From: London
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@scottsboy: As you noted, I live in Belgium, not in some Fox News American bubble. I definitely do get the view from over here every single day. People can get that information and assimilate differently, or arrive at different conclusions from the same or similar data points; thus it has ever been in politics.
What amazes me about the Bush-bashing is the arrogance of the bashers; they assume that everyone who supports Bush is arrogant, stupid or a bully. Well, 51% of Americans who voted yesterday voted for Bush. That's either because:
a.) America is like the Soviet Union (per axxxr), deluded by its leaders into thinking its free when its not and tricked into voting for a dumbell; or,
b.) Maybe, just maybe, people abroad get a skewed view of Bush's intelligence, character and what he's trying to do.
I hope this result leads some people in and outside the U.S. to re-evaluate their opinion of the president, but I know I'm probably hoping for too much. The venom directed at him by so many on this BB and around the world seems too unthinking, too automatic and overheated, for me to believe that a re-evaluation is likely. Which is too bad, because it means the U.S.-Europe gap is likely to grow wider still, and there's nothing Bush can do about it. Too many people in Europe have simply decided he's "dumb," and that's that. Of course, if he's dumb, his supporters are all dumb too, so America is dumb, QED, right? |
richy240
Joined: Jan 24, 2003
Posts: 465
From: Houston, Texas, USA
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On 2004-11-03 17:01:32, Grimslade wrote:
America is like the Soviet Union (per axxxr), deluded by its leaders into thinking its free when its not and tricked into voting for a dumbell.
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That's the one.
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On 2004-11-03 17:01:32, Grimslade wrote:
Too many people in Europe have simply decided he's "dumb," and that's that. Of course, if he's dumb, his supporters are all dumb too, so America is dumb, QED, right?
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This is also true. (Just kidding, to a certain extent. I think his supporters are war-mongering murderers who have little compassion or thought for anyone else aside from America, except the thought they have for America is ignorant and prejudice.)
And yes, I truely believe this.
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[ This Message was edited by: richy240 on 2004-11-03 16:13 ] |
Grimslade
Joined: Jul 25, 2004
Posts: 464
From: London
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@richy: Boy, that's an intelligent thing to say. Thanks! 
Not.
Edit:
Oh, by the way:
^BC-MA--APNewsAlert
WASHINGTON (AP) _ Sen. John Kerry calls President Bush to
concede White House race, the Associated Press has learned.
Like him or hate him, you, and the world are stuck with him. Get used to it.
[ This Message was edited by: Grimslade on 2004-11-03 16:15 ] |
richy240
Joined: Jan 24, 2003
Posts: 465
From: Houston, Texas, USA
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On 2004-11-03 17:13:44, Grimslade wrote:
@richy: Boy, that's an intelligent thing to say. Thanks!
Not.
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Grimslade, if you had the intellegence to see past your own nose you might see how America's behavior effects the rest of the world. Attacking Iraq is just one example of this Administration's bad judgement, and American citizen's ignorance of world events and how America plays into those events.
Americans are hated all over the world for their arrogance AND ignorance, and for good reason. I am suprised you've lasted in Belgium this long (however long it has been) without seeing that. Get over yourself and realize that America ISN'T the only country in the world and that we (well, they) should stop acting like it is. We don't have the right to police the world, as much as we'd (they'd) like to think that is true. Just because we CAN do it doesn't mean we SHOULD do it.
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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@Grimslade
I don't think Bush is unintelligent, he couldn't have gotten where he is today by being as stupid as people make out. The reasons I do not support Bush are very simple;
He acts without taking the opinions of the rest of the world into consideration
He seems to care very little for the environment
He (along with our own glorious leader) initiated a war against Iraq, which has now cost many thousands of lives and his continuing Presidency will almost certainly mean additional foreign troops will not be sent to Iraq resulting in more American and British casualties as the chance for a unified international settlement will be greatly reduced
He seems to allow his religious views to effect his political decisions; I was under the impressiont hat Church and State were seperate in the U.S. (I have nothing against Christianity, I would hold the exact same view if Bush were Jewish, Muslim, Hundu or anything else)
I think that the charge of foreigners assuming Americans are stupid is a poor defence used by people to justify their indignation. I do not consider Americans stupid per se, I'm sure there are many that are, just as many Britons are stupid. I do, however, think that those Americans who voted for Bush have done so for the wrong reasons.
The one view of America that does seem to hold up under scrutiny is that many Americans are very insular, to the point where many have little or no understanding orappreciation of the world outside. As powerful as America may be it does not exist in a vacuum and the rest of the world's opinion does matter. Bush's policies are increasingly pushing the rest of the world away from America, with the end result that new power blocs will be formed, which may very rob America of the power that Bush so desperately seeks to protect.
Europe, for example, already has a larger combined economy than the U.S. and has the economic and technological capability to act as a rival to the U.S. in the immediate future. China has this same capability, but over a longer time period. What will happen to Iran or North Korea? Will Bush attack either of these nations? I don't see that he would get much support for either venture, even from Britain, unless that is he does so before our next election.
The end result is that you may very well consider Bush a good president, as millions of Americans obviously do, but there are also millions of Americans, not to mention billions of non-Americans who must be looking at this election and thinking that the world has turned upside down. I genuinely hope that Bush does do a good job, I think we all do; unfortunately I have the feeling that his idea of a good job is probably not the same as most of rest of the planet.
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"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2004-11-03 16:20 ] | |
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Posted: 2004-11-03 16:28
