| Author |
Sony CEO thinking over Ericsson joint venture |
MWEB
Joined: Feb 13, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: somewhere nicer than you
PM |
If its been said once, it's been said a thousand times, SE's market share has seriously declined over the past two years, that IMO is due to overpricing and uncompetitive products, gloss over that all you will, but something needs to be done to halt the slide.
| |
|
goldenface
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Liverpool City Centre
PM |
On 2008-08-31 10:45:30, Dogmann wrote:
@Goldenface,
So not only are you a die hard SE fan but Sony to there is one thing you said in your post's which was
"It worked didn't it" and that really sums it up past tense it did work it doesn't any longer and as Bart has pointed out Sony are just no longer the great company they once were either.
How ever much you liked Sony over recent years it has charged a premium for it's name whilst the quality of it's products has dropped. I know because i only used to buy Sony and was happy to pay extra for the better quality they delivered. My last Sony Desktop Computer died after 15 months and would of cost more to repair than buy a new one. My last Sony laptop in under a year all the letters started disappearing off the keys and it became so slow it was virtually unusable even after re formating and reloading it's virtually useless and only used for flashing my phones now. Which is why my current Laptop is a Toshiba and you know what it's 18 months old now and still perfect and was cheaper than paying for Vaio brand name and worse quality and spec.
This is what many of us talk about when we say the Sony effect on SE it's branding and marketing at a premium price over quality. All Sony wants is money and whilst they managed to fool most of the people most of the time that just isn't working any longer. Sony no longer stands for quality it stand for being ripped off and hence there falling sales and profits as the competition just all offer better value and products. Only brand snobs remain loyal and deserve all they get strangely enough just like with SE.
Marc
_________________
Blackberry Bold, 8GB SDHC, Pin2553F455
Nokia E90, 8GB SDHC, Seven, Tom Tom 6
Honoured to have Won Best Debater for the 2nd Year
The simple fact that nearly every one of SE's best selling devices are either Walkman or Cyber-shot branded speaks volumes to me.
Couple this with the simple fact the the JV has brought in hundreds of millions to both parent companies, quite a turn around from a Ericsson's 1.1 billion dollar loss, no matter which way you look at it.
Of course Sony is in it for the money, and so is Ericsson. Its a business and businesses are all about making money.
It isn't a non-profit making organisation. They haven't set up a charity, in which we all set up a Direct Debit and each month we all donate to the 'Adopt a Phone Foundation'.
The simple fact that Sony and Ericsson received massive financial dividends from the JV means it works for both of them. Like I said, the JV has been booming for years, a couple of dodgy quarters won't force them go their separate ways, not unless they find they just can't work together.
BTW I also have a Sony Vaio, Bravia TV, DVD Player and VGF-WA1 Media Streamer. ALL work flawlessly, thanks. If they made washing machines that would probably be Sony too.
|
Dogmann
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: London England
PM |
@Carkitter
Well how about trying to stick with the truth then and not quoting me with things i haven't said to start with.
"@Dogmann
Comments like "Sony are not the company they were 8 yrs ago; they are worse" are debunked by the Fortune magazine article I linked to several pages ago and the whole 'consumer hatred drives market share results' theory is absurd. There are many other reasons for market share fluctuations, and these are bourne out by market research of the type undertaken and posted by Michael Mace on his excellent blog and other credible media sources of which MR is not one. If you do PROPER research into the topics for discussion you'll find that out.
Oh and please take your own advice re: reading your posts before hitting SUBMIT; your comments are becoming unintelligable. "
As please show me anywhere i have said what you are claiming i have said as opposed to what you would like to imagine i have said to support your feeble argument. Either show me where i have said that or retract your LIE.
Oh yes of course market research is ever so reliable especially when depending on who commissions it effects the results. I really can't believe just how even you can believe half the rubbish you post and just where do you get your assumption that my information comes from MR as it's of course completely wrong.
What are you a mind reader? Stop trying to think you know what MO or motivations are or where i get my information and knowledge from. As quite clearly believing what you want to be true about me is as quite different from reality.
You clearly just don't have a clue do you again try sticking to the truth rather than what you want to be true. I'm beginning to think your another one of these 12-16 old kids living out his all powerful fantasies over the Net.
I tell you what stop telling lies about me and I won't bother getting into discussions with you as it's just not worth it as you just don't do reality do you?
As for this last quote of yours
"@MWEB
If Dogmann's posts deteriorate any further, we'll need a translator. It's obvious that the critics of SE and Sony see their opinions as being evidence enough while those backing up SE and Sony are quite happy to provide references and discuss matters based on facts.
As someone required to write reports using APA referencing for my assignments it's clear to me whose arguments are credible."
You really are seriously delusional my personal advice would be seek immediate medical help as you and reality just don't occupy the same space do they? Oh yes and your not paranoid everyone is out to get you LMAO.
@Goldenface
What you say is true but that's all past tense the same old stuff isn't working anymore consumers get bored. But lets just wait and see what happens towards the first half of next year and then we will see just how successful and healthy SE is. It's all very well saying SE are great the best blah blah blah but the results and only the results count.
Marc
_________________
Blackberry Bold, 8GB SDHC, Pin2553F455
Nokia E90, 8GB SDHC, Seven, Tom Tom 6
Honoured to have Won Best Debater for the 2nd Year
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-09-01 12:27 ] |
Nitro Fan
Joined: Jun 11, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: London
PM |
On 2008-08-27 23:49:02, Sony α wrote:
@Soane28
Agreed all the way - with Hideki San at the helm, former head of the VAIO arm at Sony - decisions will be Sony Orientated from now, I feel as much anyhow - which is good.
Plus, Stringer and Komiyama are already well acquainted from Komiyama's past work with Sony Corp!
I have to say I feel the exact opposite, Sony are THE root cause of the appalling SW we have been subjected to Sony have never been able to write code that was not machine resource hungry bug filled and generally hopeless.
Examples: The next to unuseable"MovieShaker" as supplied with the Uber Expensive IP7 micro MV Video Cameras "the truly horrible machine "owning" "MG Jukebox" supplied with the top end Net MD recorders. I know I was mug enough to buy all of them and ownership convinced me that Sony simply cannot write code and secondly I would NEVER again buy one of their video cameras!
Sony corp are also the partner with a reputation for constantly changing storage media, & charging devices! I understand that using Micro SD and Mini USB does not generate as much money for the company as keep changing their offering, but the world has enough chargers and chips floating around already STANDARDIZE PLEASE 
In short I would say Sony corp have done Ericsson's reputation in the mobile phone market no end of damage I am seriously considering not buying anymore products due to their constant delays and poor record on quality control and shoddy product build quality.
[ This Message was edited by: Nitro Fan on 2008-09-01 11:49 ] |
anonymuser
Joined: Dec 17, 2002
Posts: > 500
PM |
On 2008-09-01 01:16:53, carkitter wrote:
@bart
K700 was an exceptional phone, I know 'cause I had a (Vodafone branded) one. It was ground breaking in many respects and sold in huge numbers. It was many peoples first introduction to SE, bluetooth, themes, MP3 players, colour screens, PC connectivity, MyPhoneExplorer and Esato.
The K700 was a bloody awful phone - my friend had one, and thinking back it was my first warning that the SE joint venture was not all it should be. I had the P800 at the time, which was a high-technology Ericsson product in all but name, but the K700 seriously made me wonder where the JV was going. Very ugly, soul-less design, cheap and nasty build (the P800 was also partly guilty of that), numerous bugs that even my fairly undemanding friend noticed, and a lack of memory that put it curiously behind the competition at the time, and severely limited it's attempts at being a camera and music player (not that it would have been a good camera even with a memory slot) - "ground breaking" it most certainly was not!
If things had carried on in that vein, and not improved dramatically with the K750, I think SE would have been in a lot of trouble a lot sooner.
[ This Message was edited by: Boinng on 2008-09-01 11:56 ] |
goldenface
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Liverpool City Centre
PM |
On 2008-09-01 12:48:30, Nitro Fan wrote:
On 2008-08-27 23:49:02, Sony α wrote:
@Soane28
Agreed all the way - with Hideki San at the helm, former head of the VAIO arm at Sony - decisions will be Sony Orientated from now, I feel as much anyhow - which is good.
Plus, Stringer and Komiyama are already well acquainted from Komiyama's past work with Sony Corp!
I have to say I feel the exact opposite, Sony are THE root cause of the appalling SW we have been subjected to. Sony have never been able to write code that was not machine resource hungry bug filled and generally hopeless.
In short I would say Sony corp have done Ericsson's reputation in the mobile phone market no end of damage I am seriously considering not buying anymore products due to their constant delays and poor record on quality control and shoddy product build quality.
Is there anyone on here that can prove without doubt, once and for all, that all the SW engineers and programmers are from the Sony side of the venture?
Where is this informaton coming from, will please someone just clear this up and post a link?
I was under the impression that Sony is responsible for all the phones that are sold in Japan and are actually responsible for very few phones sold outside of Japan. I'd gladly change my opinion if someone could just post any information to confirm otherwise.
|
jack00
Joined: Feb 20, 2003
Posts: > 500
PM |
On 2008-08-31 21:55:56, bart wrote:
keep in mind that design is personal.
it maybe personal, but design can also be evaluated with certain criterias. in several respects the K700 just couldn't stand up to the T610 or the T68. |
Hiron
Joined: Aug 16, 2007
Posts: 435
From: Denpasar - Bali, Indonesia
PM |
From my source, K750, K800 and A100 OSE are developed by Sony and Ericsson together.
K850 and it's early A200 are developed by Ericsson solely. Sony only take a part in camera module. Camera driver developed by Ericsson guy (I forgot the names.)
Then, Sony engineers takes a part in developing next A200 R3 firmware for C902 and newer generation phones.
C905 still using Ericsson's platform which isn't fast enough to do VGA recording. Rest of development are taken by Sony.
An example of phone that developed solely by Sony is >>SO905iCS<< with Bravia VGA display, YouTube support, VGA recording, 3D accelerator, Optical Zoom and DSP audio chip onboard. Keep in mind, this phone released last year, same timeline with K850.
So we can says that "K850i vs SO905iCS" is the same with "Ericsson vs Sony."
Furthermore, Ericsson guy has stated that upcoming Walkman Devices will not featuring DSP chip.
Imagine if Sony develops it solely, there would be a variant of SO905iCS around the world. Just browse http://www.sonyericsson.co.jp to see all phones that has been developed solely by Sony.
Compare it with SE worldwide portfolio... Decide which is better.
A good thing about Ericsson: All HSDPA, 3G and GSM radio developed solely by Ericsson. We all know the sound call quality by SE phones. It's decent.
Hiron
[ This Message was edited by: Hiron on 2008-09-01 14:43 ] |
strizlow800
Joined: Aug 23, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: Macedonia, Skopje
PM |
@Hiron, great post. And good information.. 
|
QVGA
Joined: May 23, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: Pakistan
PM, WWW
|
Yeah if SO905 is any indication of what sony is capable of, then they might as well split from ericsson
|
goldenface
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Liverpool City Centre
PM |
@Hiron
Great post and thanks. At last some enlightenment as to who does what around here.
So if the above is true, this means that one of the most derided of recent phones - the K850i - is actually from the Ericsson stable with Sony providing the camera unit?
Go figure!
|
Hiron
Joined: Aug 16, 2007
Posts: 435
From: Denpasar - Bali, Indonesia
PM |
Err.. Actually Sony makes a mistakes in IMX-020 cam module (used by K850.) It utilizing smaller 2.0nm cell, because they shrink more Pixels into same sensor size compared to it's predessors, 2.2nm IMX-018 that used in K800.
Sure it has more details, but the sensitivity is sacrified due to smaller pixel, resulting a hell lot more noise. K850 camdriver by Ericsson also lacks of saturation.
But actually Sony produce this IMX-020 because of a pressure from Ericsson to providing cheap cam module as fast as possible.
At the same time, more expensive but better solution already developed: 5.1MP Exmor CMOS used in SO905iCS. Some early Sofia proto has it locally in SE *** R&D basis.
But Ericsson refuses this Exmor because the production cost doesn't meet. They instructing Sony to develop cheaper module in less than 6 month. Lack of time (knowing that K850 developed in a rush. C905 takes 11 month since rough planning until before announcement) makes Sony didn't develops IMX-020 in full effort. Everything is usually bad if you do it in a rush.
I referring a word Ericsson to SE Core Management in Lund. It's Ericsson Corp before they joins with Sony. I can say that Ericsson's people rules SE today, not Sony. Most of the decisions comes from Lund (Ericsson.)
K850 also developed in Lund. This time isn't spreaded in other R&D basis like other dev project, because it's in rush. Sony Japan provides some tech that meets SE's strict requirement. Bravia is still long wait, probably next year or postponed branding.
I referring Sony to Sony Japan and SE Japan. Let's see upcoming Mr. Komiyama's act.
And one more, I forgot where I got that info, don't ask me further.
Hiron
[ This Message was edited by: Hiron on 2008-09-01 17:53 ] |
se_dude
Joined: Nov 07, 2007
Posts: > 500
PM |
What about the sensor used in the C905 then??if you have any info... |
ZeneticX
Joined: Feb 02, 2008
Posts: 112
From: Malaysia
PM |
so the walkman series lacking audio chip may be due to the same cause?since developing a walkman audio chip for a phone take time and higher cost too. |
strizlow800
Joined: Aug 23, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: Macedonia, Skopje
PM |
Well walkman phones have the same audio codecs as other phones. They have better media player app, named Walkman which has some extra playlist management options... Most of them are different in camera... A lot of Walkman phones are made mainly for music and their camera is not the stong side... 
| |
|
Access the forum with a mobile phone via esato.mobi
|
Posted: 2008-09-01 11:17
Sony Ericsson software/hardware support! 
