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The O2 iPhone discussion thread |
mswallis
Joined: May 23, 2003
Posts: 460
From: England
PM |
At the end of the day the iPhone setup isn't like a normal phone setup, O2 and Apple have a contractual agreement that allows the iPhone only to be used with O2.
When I spoke to a bloke in the O2 shop I asked him what Ofcom have to say about the situation and he told me that no law is being broken, as the law is: that an unlock code must be provided after the minimum term contract has finished.
The iPhone is for sale on O2 end of story, if you don't want to go on O2 don't buy an iPhone, no-on forces you to go to the store and buy it, and if you do you know full well what network you are buying it from. |
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fatreg
Joined: Jul 26, 2003
Posts: > 500
PM |
On 2007-11-11 21:21:01, JoolsG4 wrote:
Perhaps Apple and O2 are getting around this potential flaw in their business plan by it being Apple (the manufacturer) who locks the phones, not O2 (the network)???
In which case, that's monopoly and that is illegal.
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Dogmann
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: London England
PM |
@JoolsG4
As far as i am aware no one has found the actual Law if their is one, but i have spoken to OFCOM who when i explained the situation about the iPhone being purchased outright and then being forced to only use it on one Network as it was locked to them. They told me they could not investigate or act until the device was released and they would not unlock it. Now that this is what's happening i can speak to them tomorrow and see what they say. obviously i will report here what they say and if they say i need to of purchased one i will assist some one that has purchased one. As i just hate big corporations that try and inflict their will with restrictive practices.
Marc
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-11-11 21:18 ] |
masseur
Joined: Jan 03, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Sydney, London
PM |
I was just searching, yet again, for any ofcom ruling or notice (or anything really) on their site pertaining to any regulation of sim locking but the only document that keeps coming up is from 2002 "Review of SIM-locking policy"
I've also been through the telecommunications act and find nothing on this topic of compulsory provision of unlock codes
while calling them is one thing, if this is correct there surely should be something documented and easily findable, so I for one am very curious if anyone else can come up with evidencial proof of this assertion regarding compulsory unlocking by uk networks?
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Superluminova
Joined: Feb 24, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: ...Mummies Tummy!
PM |
Not sure if it helps but there was definitely an article in mobile news about this not to long ago. so maybe someone should speak to them?
OBEY GAINT |
fatreg
Joined: Jul 26, 2003
Posts: > 500
PM |
The Competition Act is based on the EC’s competition rules and contains a
prohibition against anti-competitive cooperation and abuse of dominant position.
The Competition Act is of importance for how undertakings choose to act in the
market. An undertaking that consciously or carelessly breaches any of the
prohibitions contained in the Competition Act may be liable to pay a competition
impairment penalty, i.e. a kind of administrative fine. The competition impairment
penalty may amount to at most 10 per cent of the undertaking’s total annual
turnover.
http://www.pts.se/Archive/Doc[....]elecommunications%20Market.pdf
page 8.. while it's not the law, it references how the law stands 
mobilephones@competition-commission.gsi.gov.uk
might be worth someone with better English than me sending the above people a friendly email?
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[ This Message was edited by: fatreg on 2007-11-11 21:42 ] |
fatreg
Joined: Jul 26, 2003
Posts: > 500
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"Any abuse by one or more undertakings of a dominant position within the common market or in a substantial part of it shall be prohibited as incompatible with the common market insofar as it may affect trade between Member States.
This can mean,
(a) directly or indirectly imposing unfair purchase or selling prices or other unfair trading conditions; (b) limiting production, markets or technical development to the prejudice of consumers; (c) applying dissimilar conditions to equivalent transactions with other trading parties, thereby placing them at a competitive disadvantage; (d) making the conclusion of contracts subject to acceptance by the other parties of supplementary obligations which, by their nature or according to commercial usage, have no connection with the subject of such contracts."
that pretty much sums up the iPhone to me.
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Dogmann
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: London England
PM |
@fatreg
Your a star nice find as this is what i am basing the fact that what is is being done is just not right or Legal.
@all
Does any one know why the Networks all started selling us unlock codes where as previously they used to make us wait till either the end of the contract or pay the contract off? and what changed that made them do it?
Marc
_________________
Nokia E61, 2gb Sandisk, Fring, Tom Tom 6
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-11-11 21:59 ] |
Superluminova
Joined: Feb 24, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: ...Mummies Tummy!
PM |
it was all in that article i read! damm whey did i just skim it and not read it fully!
OBEY GAINT |
fatreg
Joined: Jul 26, 2003
Posts: > 500
PM |
Bingo Marc!
might send them peeps a nice email myself, need to think up some big, clever words and McSend it to them and see what they have to say for themselves...
Although are we possibly teetering on the edge of getting the iPhone pulled from sale!?
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masseur
Joined: Jan 03, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Sydney, London
PM |
hmm... well thats a report is on "The mobile telecommunications
market in Sweden from a consumer and competition perspective" though it does raise the subject of anti-competitiveness.
However ofcom (even in that ancient 2002 report I linked to) already acknowledge that phone companies are entitled to recoup their handset subsidy and so that can hardly be considered as anti-competitive as long as (I suppose):-
a) you do have a contractual commitment to the phone company
b) you can pay out the subsidy and thus free youself of the contract
c) and (to a lessor extent) all phone companies are doing the same practice
so I'm not sure this offers anything to confirm the legality or otherwise of compulsory unlocking in UK but it does bring us full circle to the question of whether iPhone is subsidised or not.
Moving on from the question of "compulsory unlocking in UK" to the question at hand... from the above statements and the fact that you can buy it without a contract from Apple suggests that iPhones bought out of contract should not be locked in the first place or should be unlocked on demand since surely Apple is not subsiding the handset as this then certainly appears to fall into anti-competitiveness.
well, I'm no lawyer though I have a reasonable amount of experience in the copyright area due to my work in television and film copyright management software for ABC in Australia and so can understand a reasonable amount of legal-ese, but I feel this really will come down to a test case in EU/UK
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indup
Joined: Sep 13, 2007
Posts: 243
PM |
On 2007-11-11 23:11:18, masseur wrote:
but I feel this really will come down to a test case in EU/UK
and i nominate dogmann for the testcase. |
Superluminova
Joined: Feb 24, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: ...Mummies Tummy!
PM |
Oh on subsiding, that doesn't really come into it for me, as all pay as you talk phones are subsidised.
So as far as i can understand, if i buy a phone on pay as you talk i can get an unlock code no problem at all.
so what makes the iPhone so special?
[ This Message was edited by: Superluminova on 2007-11-11 22:35 ] |
Jools
Joined: May 21, 2003
Posts: > 500
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so what makes the iPhone so special?
It's all to do with the fact that, for the first time ever, the phone manufacturer i.e. Apple, gets a cut of the operator revenue for each iPhone contract customer.
No O2 contract = no monthly income for Apple!
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Superluminova
Joined: Feb 24, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: ...Mummies Tummy!
PM |
so what your saying is that two companies have came together and are trying to monopolies the market?
OBEY GAINT |
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Posted: 2007-11-11 21:58
