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so who is religous here? |
amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
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From: Doha, London, Tokyo, Shanghai
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thanks for showing me you have an open mind.
You have to remember, people are born believing that their religion is the best or the true religion. (you could go to the extreme and say that they are pre-programed or brain washed)
So when someone is not of a certain faith, their opinions will based on their background and teachings and not of the religion they are commenting on (woah that might be hard to understand, my sentence is totally confusing there) (i'm not being sarcastic btw, really thing it's a tough thought)
look at me though.
I am not a devout Muslim.
Yes I have broken some rules and am prepared to take my punishment.
I do have some friends that do not have a religion so I tell them of my religion, but I'd never dare force them to join.
And one thing I always say is. "I like Islam because it makes you a better person if you follow it slightly leniantly and not too rigidly."
Peter might not agree with me on that though, some Muslims dont, they say, follow it completely or dont follow it at all. But why? If I break one law does it mean I have to break them all?
If the religion is used to control you, I think people need to open their eyes. If you blindly follow the religion without thinking of the consequences, again, time to open your eyes. If you follow the religion because you yourself want to gain knowledge, insight, inner peace, be in a friendly society, then yes you are finally understanding the purpose of religion. God wants to make us better, not control us.
Or at least thats what I think and hope. 
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vanquish
Joined: Mar 20, 2003
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On 2005-09-22 19:30:52, PeterKay wrote:
Have you read all that or just copied it. by the way that was all written by a non muslim so thats that.
More Biblical mistakes:
Who killed Jesus, Jews or Gentiles?
Jesus prophesied that he would be killed by Gentiles:
(Mat 20:18-19 NIV) "We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death {19} and will turn him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day he will be raised to life!"
(Mark 10:33 NIV) "We are going up to Jerusalem," he said, "and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death and will hand him over to the Gentiles,
(Luke 18:31-33 NIV) Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, "We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled. {32} He will be handed over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him, spit on him, flog him and kill him. {33} On the third day he will rise again."
Here, according to McKinsey, Jesus is killed by Jews:
(John 19:14-18 NIV) It was the day of Preparation of Passover Week, about the sixth hour. "Here is your king," Pilate said to the Jews. {15} But they shouted, "Take him away! Take him away! Crucify him!" "Shall I crucify your king?" Pilate asked. "We have no king but Caesar," the chief priests answered. {16} Finally Pilate handed him over to them to be crucified. So the soldiers took charge of Jesus. {17} Carrying his own cross, he went out to the place of the Skull (which in Aramaic is called Golgotha). {18} Here they crucified him, and with him two others--one on each side and Jesus in the middle.
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DONT INSULT THINGS YOU DONT UNDERSTAND! AM I INSULTING THE QURAN? no!
The Jews and the Gentiles (romans, non jews) both metaphorically killed him. The Romans carried the act out, the Jews asked for it to happen.
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I do believe that that is a pig wearing aviator goggles.
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LMAO! 
[ This Message was edited by: vanquish on 2005-09-23 15:54 ] |
amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
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you are sort of insulting it when you try to make it seem like Islam is bad.
However, I dont see how he was insulting the religion.
He was just copying and pasting from that site.
I'd really send an email to that guy if you disagreed.
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[ This Message was edited by: amnesia on 2005-09-23 18:43 ] |
PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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Well said Amnesia.
Vanquish, tell the guy that wrote it NOT ME.
Think before you write.
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whizkidd
Joined: May 14, 2004
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From: India
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Would like to add some thoughts about"Vedanta" thought
(An important branch of Hindu philosophy and is a form of Jnana Yoga (one of the four basic yoga practices in Hinduism; the others are: Raja Yoga, Bhakti Yoga, Karma Yoga), a form of yoga which involves an individual seeking "the path of intellectual analysis or the discrimination of truth and reality."
A peculiar idea of vedanta is that we must allow infinite variation in religious thought and not try to bring everybody to the same opinion because the goal is the same.
As the vedantist says in his poetical language: 'As
so many rivers, having their source in differnt mountains, roll down, crooked or straight and at last come to the ocean, so all these vast creeds and religions taking their start from various standpoints and running through crooked or straight courses, at last come unto Thee.'
As a manifestation of that, we find that this most ancient philosophy has, through its influence, directly inspired buddhism, the first missionary religion of the world, and indirectly has also influenced Christianity, through the Alexandrians, the Gnostics and the European philosophers of the middle ages.
Yet all this mass of influence has been given to the world almost unpercieved. As the gentle falling of the dews at night brings support to all vegetable life, so, slowly and imperceptably, this divine philosophy has been spread through the world for the good of mankind.
No march of armies has been used to preach this religion.
In budhism, one of the most missionary religions of the world, we find inscriptions remaining of the great emperorAsoka,
recording how missionaries were sent to Alexandria, to Antioch, to Persia, to China and to various other counries of the then civilised world.
Three hundred years before Christ, instructions were given to them not to revile other religions:"The basis of all religions is the same, wherever they are; try to help them all you can, teach them all you can, but do not try to injure them."
Thus in India, there never was any religious persecution by the hindus, but only that wonderful reverance which they have for all the religions of the world
They shared a portion of the Hebrews, when they were driven out of their country, and the Malabar Jews remain as a result (Malabar is the northern part of the southern indian sate of Kerala).
They received at another time the remnant of the Persians when they were almost annihilated; and they remain to this day, as a part of India, loved by Indians as the modern Parsis of Bombay.
Iam sure about the fact that this spirit of toleration has not died out. It will not and cannot die there.
This is one of the great lessons that Vedanta has to teach. Knowing that, conciously or unconsciously, we are all struggling to reach the same goal, why should we be impatient?
When a man has reached the highest, when he sees a neither man nor woman, neither sex nor creed, not colour, nor birth, nor any of these differentiations, but goes beyond and finds that divinity which is the real man behind every human being, then alone has he reached universal brotherhood, and that man alone is a Vedantist.
What great thoughts.
This was a brief idea about the Vedanta philosophy which has been beautifully explained by Swami Vivekananda.
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PeterKay
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Wise saying's from The Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
* To acquire knowledge is binding upon all Muslims, whether male or female.
* The ink of the scholar is more holy than the blood of the martyr.
* He who travels in the search of knowledge, to him God shows the way of Paradise.
* People from the time of Adam onwards are as equal as the teeth of a comb. Arabs are not superior to non Arabs, nor are Redskinned people better than Blacks. No superiority or virture exists except in terms of Piety.
* Hail to those who are so concerned with improving their own faults, that they abstain from preoccupation with the flaws of other believers.
* He, who is a parasite to others, shall be condemned in the eyes of God, the Almighty.
* The Quest for knowledge I cherish, superior to God's worship.
* The most virtuous from among you are those privileged with scrupulous manners. Likewise, theu associate with others; while they also get along with them.
* He who indulges in a task without proper knowledge will deteriorate rather than improve the case.
* He who betrays the vicious deed of another in public, it is as though he has initiated the evil act himself.
* Do not argue with your brother, nor depress him with sarcastic humor, and do not make a promise so as to fail in fulfilling your covenant.
* Whensoever you are presented with a gift, make efforts to return the deed; if it is beyond your ability express your gratitude in words.
* Do not set up to accomplish a virtuous deed pretentiously, However, do not abandon righteousness due to shyness.
* Whomsoever intiates a graceful tradition; shall be rewarded as long as that tradition is sustained.
* There is no good in extravagence, however, there can never be extravagence in good deeds.
* Opportunities slide away like clouds.
* Victory is gained by resolution and determination.
* During the days of your life, divine breezes will blow, so watch out for them.
* Establish contact with those who have severed relations with you, and be good to those who have treated you badly.
* He who covets another's property, his sorrow shall be prolonged.
* Whenever a wise and sincere man advises you, take heed and welcome it gladly.
* There are two characteristics which cannot be found together in a believer; Avarice and a Vicious temper.
* Blessed be those who spend their excess wealth and abstain from excessive talk.
* He who calls upon his fellow Believer without their being any need, is destined to be among God's visitors.
* Whomsoever satisfies the need of a fellow Believer God shall meet his many needs.
* The most vicious among all men is he who is respected out of fear.
* I restrain you from three traits of character: Envy, Avarice and Arrogance.
* The true Muslim is the one from whose hand and tongue other Muslims are safe.
* Excessive requests from people lead to humiliation.
* Beware of obstinacy; since it begins with foolishness and ends in regret.
* Whatever you hate for yourself hate for others, and whatever you like for yourself , like for your brother.
* Adopt a cordial attitude towards your relatives and neighbours and with whomever you keep company and associate.
* There is no worship like Meditation, and there is no support more sure.
* Beware of too much laughter, since it mortifies the heart.
* The love of the world, is the root of all evils.
* Appreciate five things before five others: Your Youth before your Old age, Your Health before your illness, Your Wealth before your Poverty, Your Spare Time before your hard work and Your Life before Death.
* It is better to associate with a good friendthan to remain in solitude, while being alone is better than dealing with a vicious companion.
* Be neither a fault finder, an eulogist, a defamer nor a wrangler.
* Social gatherings should be marked by good faith, divulging the secret of a friend is breach of faith.
* I restrain you from abandoning your fellow Believers: Though in case you are obliged to do so, it should not last for more than three days.
* He who is ina position to administer punishment should all the more be encouraged to forgive.
* The best of men is he who refrains from that which does not concern him.
* The best attire of man is severity associated with faith.
* Take care not to abuse a Muslim, or accuse an honest man of lying.
* There is no quicker way to receive punishment than by committing an outrage.
* Paradise lies at the feet of thy mother.
* He who wishes to enter Paradise must please his father and mother.
* A man giving in alms one piece of silver in his lifetime is better for him than giving one hundred when about to die.
* To meet friends cheerfully and invite them to a feast are charitable acts.
* To extend consideration towards neighbors and send them presents are charitable acts.
* Keep yourselves far from envy, because it eats up and takes away good actions, like the fire that eats up and burns wood.
* Whoever suppresses his anger, when he has in his power to show it, God will give him a great reward.
* He is not strong and powerful, who throws people down, but he is strong who withholds himself from anger.
* Deal gently with a people, and be not harsh; cheer them and condemn not.
* Much silence and a good disposition; there are no two works better than these.
* The best of friends is he who is best in behavior and character.
* One who does not practice modestiy and does not refrain from shameless deeds is not a Muslim.
* No one who keeps his mind focussed entirely upon himself, can grow large, strong and beautiful in character.
* Whoever loves to meet God, God loves to meet him.
* The five stated prayers erase the sins which have been committed during the intervals between them if they have not been mortal sins.
* God is not merciful to him who is not so to humankind. He who is not kind to God's creation and to his own children, God will not be kind to him.
* Whosoever visits a sick person, an angel calls from Heaven: "Be happy in the world and happy be your walking; and take your habitation in Paradise."
* Wealth properly employed is a blessing; and a man may lawfully endeavour to increase it by honest means.
* Acquire knowledge, because he who acquires it, in the way of the Lord, performs an act of piety; who speaks of it praises the Lord; who seeks it, adores God, who dispenses instruction in it, bestows alms; and who imparts it to its fitting objects, performs an act of devotion to God. Knowledge enables its possessor to distinguish what is forbidden from what is not; lights the way to Heaven; it is our friend in the desert, our companion in solitude, our companion, when bereft of riends; it guides us to happiness; it sustains us in misery; it is our ornament in the company of friends; it serves as an armor against our enemies. With knowledge the creatures of Allah rises to the heights of goodness and to noble position, associates with the sovereigns in this world and attains the perfection of happiness in the next.
* Meditation in God is my Capital. Reason and sound Logic is the rest of my Religion. Love is the Foundationof my existence. Enthusiasm is the Vehicle of my life. Contemplation of God is my companion. Faith is the source of my Power. Sorrow is my friend. Knowledge is my weapon. Patience is my Garb abd Virtue. Submission to the Divine Will, is my Pride. Truth is my Salvation. Worship is my habit. And in Prayer lies the coolness of my Eye and the Peace of Mind.
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PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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More Examples of the Prophet Muhammad’s Sayings:
* The believers, in their love, mercy, and kindness to one another are like a body: if any part of it is ill, the whole body shares its sleeplessness and fever.
* The most perfect of the believers in faith are the best of them in morals. And the best among them are those who are best to their wives.
* None of you believes (completely) until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself.
* The merciful are shown mercy by the All-Merciful. Show mercy to those on earth, and God will show mercy to you.
* Smiling at your brother is charity.
* A good word is charity.
* Whoever believes in God and the Last Day (the Day of Judgment) should do good to his neighbour.
* God does not judge you according to your appearance and your wealth, but He looks at your hearts and looks into your deeds.
* Pay the worker his wage before his sweat dries.
* A man walking along a path felt very thirsty. Reaching a well, he descended into it, drank his fill, and came up. Then he saw a dog with its tongue hanging out, trying to lick up mud to quench its thirst. The man said, “This dog is feeling the same thirst that I felt.” So he went down into the well again, filled his shoe with water, and gave the dog a drink. So, God thanked him and forgave his sins. The Prophet was asked, “Messenger of God, are we rewarded for kindness towards animals?” He said: "There is a reward for kindness to every living animal or human".
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solidsingh
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: india
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no disrepect but the last story says your rewarded for good deeds towards animals, and that they feel the same thirst as us, so why do muslims still eat meat because if they still feel the same thirst they must feel the same pain of death
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brownlad007
Joined: Jul 22, 2005
Posts: 264
From: The Punjab, Wolverhampton UK.
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yea thats true. |
amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
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you can't insinuate when it comes down to the religious book.
If it meant they feel the same pain, it would say they feel the same pain.
It said that they feel the same thirst.
It means they require the same foods that we do. This referrs to life's nature chain. Where each animal is on the earth for a reason which is to provide nutrition for another.
to be more specific.
We are rewarded for being good to all living things. It means be good, dont torture or stand idle.
The animals that we eat are bred and meant for us to be eaten and not tortured.
You're going to say "but they feel pain" and I'll just say what I said last time, even if they do feel pain, they are not killed for no reason, and when they are killed the pain is minimized. You'll say, "but it's still pain", and I'll say "but we still eat meat and there is no other way". You'll say "dont eat meat", we say "we eat meat because we enjoy it, and because we believe there we are meant to in life. God said, "dont eat pork" he didn't say dont eat all animals.
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[ This Message was edited by: amnesia on 2005-09-25 23:20 ] |
solidsingh
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
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From: india
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i disagree, animals werent put on the earth to provide nutrition, plants were
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amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
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thats your opinion.
We follow the rules of Quraan, You can see that God mentioned what we are not supposed to do. If God meant us not to eat animals he would have said so easily.
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Gigs
Joined: Jan 19, 2004
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From: The planet Snibertron!
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On 2005-09-26 00:18:00, solidsingh wrote:
i disagree, animals werent put on the earth to provide nutrition, plants were
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Also something that if we got into would derail this thread fairly badly.
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Leviath
Joined: Sep 14, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: PT@IB_PENINSULA LIVIN IN UK
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This is why I have converted to buddhism... And wilst budhists have a reverence for all life and believe in reeincarnation amongst other things, I have decided to cast aside some of these believes and seek for myself the enlightment once sought by Siddhartha himself...
By watching nature I see the circle of live is a never ending one and we are very much part of this...
Is it wrong for the Lion to hunt for meat?
Our ancestors have hunted meat fo the same reason carnivorous predators do...
It seems living in harmony with the world is all about restoring the balance, the same way we (I) must seek to restore the balance within me... there is no mind or spirit without flesh there is no live without death...
If for survival we believe that we should not eat flesh that this seems to be a wise decision, but in the other hand some feel the reverse....
I walk the line that stands between the two sides... and realise there is no line at all....
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PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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Quote:
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On 2005-09-26 00:18:00, solidsingh wrote:
i disagree, animals werent put on the earth to provide nutrition, plants were
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Did you know that plants feel pain too? sceientists today have realised that plants feel pain too.
Do you drink milk? Well, when the Cow is milked it feel so much pain.
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Posted: 2005-09-23 16:17
