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so who is religous here? |
pleber
Joined: Jul 22, 2003
Posts: 200
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Well, we can't argue with that...
I think I'll leave you all to it now, but a sincere thanks to everyone that helped me learn a little about other religions.
Good Luck everyone! | |
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PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: The Ummah
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@pleber, no problems.
You are welcome here anytime with your views. I think we all learn something new here daily and as we are all here for only a short period we must do what we think is best.
BUT, do not say you weren't told of the religion when your eyes shut in this world.
Nighty Night.
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whizkidd
Joined: May 14, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: India
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One more question. If invaders are terrorists (like usa) muslim invaders who invaded and plundered other states to spread islam too are terrorists? (logical) Or are muslims who invade other states exempt from this analogy? Wierd. I gotta sleep now btw! 3 a.m!! 
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PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: The Ummah
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Bedtime whizkidd, nighty night.
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Gigs
Joined: Jan 19, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: The planet Snibertron!
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Quote:
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On 2005-09-22 21:48:38, whizkidd wrote:
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God help the atheists!.
...
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That made me smile at least whiz. 
I wonder if I shoudl write a holy book for us agnostics?  |
amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Doha, London, Tokyo, Shanghai
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"One more question. If invaders are terrorists (like usa) muslim invaders who invaded and plundered other states to spread islam too are terrorists? (logical) Or are muslims who invade other states exempt from this analogy? Wierd. I gotta sleep now btw! 3 a.m!! "
you use the word plunder. are you referring to the crusades?
If you were, then I guess all religions would be terrorists in your eyes because they spread the religion.
If I remember my history (my mother is Christian), Christians used to actually take over a land, convert the people or kill them...
is that a terrorist act?
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PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: The Ummah
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Moral of today folks:
There has been a lot of heated discussions in this thread today and i accept responsibility for that, i do think my religion is true and the only religion thats acceptable but that's just my view. All of us should think in that same manner if we believe strongly in our religion.
Anyways, before somebody screams at me - i just want to say sorry if i hurt anyone's feelings or said anything out of order. My religion teaches Peace and friendliness (although many here don't agree), and i just want to say we shall continue tomorrow and i am sorry once again.
Verse 64 from Chapter 3 states:
Say: "O People of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah. that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah." If then they turn back, say ye: "Bear witness that we at least are Muslims bowing to Allah's Will.
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amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Doha, London, Tokyo, Shanghai
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@ whizz "But muslims (even moderates) i think, have a superiority complex about islam."
I dont. Thats your opinion. But I think it's wrong. We are taught all of Gods religions (basically) when in classes. Most Christian countries dont even allow you to study religion in school in order not to be discraminatory.
In my school, we had religion class and each religious group could have a different teacher and students didn't have to attend if they didn't want to. They'd get free time to do whatever they wanted.
If PeterKay said something that influenced your opinion, doesn't it kind of show you that you just stereo typed the WHOLE religion based on one or two or three people?
@Peter, I have to disagree with the statement that Islam is the only true religion. To a Muslim, yes it is, but we are also taught that other religions brought down by God as still recognized.
They are taught that they are right and we are wrong. We can only hope to live in peace with them. However it seems to me that some members here just like to compare. Why? This is not a "my religion is better than yours thread"
Dont find faults in their religion Peter, their religion is also ours, because we believe it is brought down by God dont we? Lets not attack Gods good book.
@aps, dont be rude. If you attack one person's religion, you attack his core beliefs. Were you insulted? Did someone attack your own beliefs?
Saying Christianity sucks is wrong (didn't say you said that, its a general statement)
Muslims having 15 to 20 kids wtf?! Do some research little dude.
If ONE country (e.g. India) has alot of children in a family then does that apply to the other 35 countries?
@pleber, you know and I know it seems that you have a personal vandetta against Islam. chill man. You are not asking questions to learn, you're asking questions to make it seem like Islam is bad. And you know it.
@Vanquish, it's nice having pleber for support isn't it? I'll bet if I attacked Christianity you'd be all up in my ass.
GUYS PLEASE I BEG IF YOU WITH ALL MY HEART
1) DONT COMPARE RELIGIONS
2) DONT ATTACK EACH OTHER WHEN SOMEONE HOLDS A BELIEF DEAR TO THEIR HEART (send a pm if you want to have a debate which MAY become out of hand)
and
3) Please DONT GENERALIZE.
Stereotyping is uncool.
My final statement is this.
Islam is a religion of peace and bettering yourself.
That is what I was taught, my family was taught and my friends were taught.
Islam does NOT allow forcing people convert to it. You have to willingly do it.
Those who did bad things whilst being a Muslim, doesn't mean that the religion caused them to do it. There are MANY MANY murderers in the UK and US that are Christians, people dont blame Christianity.
Lets try to just get along.
My mum is Christian and my Dad is Muslim.
I chose Islam after learning that Islam accepts all of Gods religions and I personally liked the thought that we are all Gods children rather than Jesus being the only son.
IMO, as long as you use ANY religion to better yourself, then thats better than nothing.
However, you can't preach that another religion is wrong when you yourself do something wrong.
Peace all.
*has a headache now*
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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Quote:
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On 2005-09-22 22:55:51, PeterKay wrote:
There are no contradictions nor mistakes in the only book that has not changed. I do not need to say anything as the Quran is the Truth and nothing byt the truth.
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As far as I am aware the Tao Te Ching has not changed. There are also several other books, which have not changed. However, I take your point of view. |
aps
Joined: Jun 06, 2005
Posts: 66
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sorry bout that statement..but its true atleas in south asia and parts of middle east man...god help us all...whatver ..whoever..u believe in
live and let live (se users only) |
whizkidd
Joined: May 14, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: India
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Good morning all! Just got up... 
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whizkidd
Joined: May 14, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: India
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Quote:
| @ whizz "But muslims (even moderates) i think, have a superiority complex about islam."
I dont. Thats your opinion. But I think it's wrong. We are taught all of Gods religions (basically) when in classes. Most Christian countries dont even allow you to study religion in school in order not to be discraminatory. |
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I am glad you proved me wrong!
You're the first muslim i've conversed with who thinks islam is not higher, or better than other faiths. You see, i have no problems when you believe that your religion is true, or that it is the best. But its a different thing when one imposes (or tries to) his beliefs on others.
Why should a christian or a hindu or a sikh abandon his firm beliefs which is as firm as any muslims belief in his faith to accept ideas alien to him?
Thats my only point.
Quote:
| If PeterKay said something that influenced your opinion, doesn't it kind of show you that you just stereo typed the WHOLE religion based on one or two or three people? |
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Well yes, but since peterkay is a moderate muslim like the majority of muslims, i thought his views might be similar to that of the majority and that the majority of muslims thinks that way too.
I'd be glad if i'm proved wrong there too!
Quote:
| @Peter, I have to disagree with the statement that Islam is the only true religion. To a Muslim, yes it is, but we are also taught that other religions brought down by God as still recognized.
They are taught that they are right and we are wrong. We can only hope to live in peace with them. |
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My thoughts exactly. Agreed with you there.
Quote:
| It seems to me that some members here just like to compare. Why? This is not a "my religion is better than yours thread" |
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Agreed. That is a bad trend imho.
No religion is superior to any other. Problems begin when people think otherwise.
Quote:
| GUYS PLEASE I BEG IF YOU WITH ALL MY HEART
1) DONT COMPARE RELIGIONS
2) DONT ATTACK EACH OTHER WHEN SOMEONE HOLDS A BELIEF DEAR TO THEIR HEART (send a pm if you want to have a debate which MAY become out of hand)
and
3) Please DONT GENERALIZE.
Stereotyping is uncool. |
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Agreed and taken note of!
Coming to some other points,........
.....
.....
Quote:
| You use the word plunder. are you referring to the crusades?
If you were, then I guess all religions would be terrorists in your eyes because they spread the religion. |
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@amnesia, spreading a religion is not terrorism, its the way how it is spread!
Yes, the christian crusades (i really dunno much about them) if were violent and cruel, i won't hesitate to call it terrorism!
Also, i don't think all religions could be terrorists because not all faiths believe in conversions or the spread of the faith. Buddhist monks travelled far and wide in ancient times to spread the word about buddhism, was that terrorism? No!
Also note that i also said this:
Quote:
| The fact is, almost every major world religions have had thir moments of shame. |
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Wrongs have been done in the past.....by almost all major faiths, be it Christianity, Islam or Hinduism.
Lets admit those mistakes and move forward for peaceful co-existence.
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PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: The Ummah
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Ok then Peace it is dudes
Verse 58 Chapter 36 from The Glorious Quran states:
"Peace!" - a word of salutation from a Lord Most Merciful!
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whizkidd
Joined: May 14, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: India
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I have seen @peterkay talk about Dr.Zakir Naik and his speeches.
This is what Khuswant Singh, a renowned author and literary figure has to say about Dr.Naik.
This has not been taken from an anti islamic website so it is not the view of someone who hates islam.
Dr.Naik claims he is spreading islam "the only true religion".
I am happy, Atleast he is doing it non violently. But in the process, he has drubbed almost every other faith as irrelevant.
Here's the Article:
For the last few months, despite being a non-believer, I have been religiously tuning into Quran TV every evening to listen to Dr Zakir Naik answering questions and his lengthy debate with a Dr William Campbell on the Bible versus the Quran on scientific matters. There can be little doubt that Dr Naik has a phenomenal memory. He quotes chapter, page, verse and line of every religious text of Hindus, Buddhists, Jains, Christians and Muslims. He draws large audiences, predominantly Muslim, and highly receptive. They listen to him with rapt attention and often explode in enthusiastic applause when he rubbishes other religious texts to extol the Quran, the Hadith and the Sunna. A recent one was an open debate between him and Dr William Campbell on the comparative merits of the Bible and the Quran on scientific phenomena like conception and growth of the foetus (embryology), cycles of rain, astronomy, mathematics, geology etc. It was more a confrontation than a debate, with the invincible Dr Naik scoring brownie points over his half-baked adversary and getting fervent adulatory approval from his listeners. Having read both the Bible and the Quran, many times as books of ethics with literary merit, I was unaware that they also dealt with science or mathematics till I heard this pointless debate. I also wondered if this was the best way of bridging the gulf of misunderstanding between the world’s two major religions.
As someone emotionally involved with Muslims, I found other things which Naik said that can harm his community. He goes on and on about the right of human beings to eat animal flesh using the quaint Indian veg versus non-veg debate. More serious are his views on the status of women. He thinks Muslim women should observe hijab, that is, cover themselves from head to foot, baring only their faces and hands upto their wrists. He is against co-education and thinks if boys and girls in schools and colleges sit together, their minds are not on their studies but on each other. He thinks Muslim women should not be heads of states because besides having to veil themselves, they have to shake hands with visiting heads of states; are periodically out of action due to menstruation or pregnancy. Also, the head of state is expected to act as imam to lead men at prayer on important occasions. If it happens, the worshippers’ minds will be distracted from the divine to the backside of the lady in front of them. So out go Benazir Bhutto, Shaikh Haseena Wajed and the present prime minister of Bangladesh, Khaleda Zia. He is against Muslim girls becoming air-hostesses: besides having to be veiled, they have to serve liquor which is haraam. And horror of horrors, some male passengers may ask them to tighten their seat-belts. Following his advice, Muslim girls should keep out of the film industry as very often, they have to be scantily clad. If Sania Mirza heeded Dr Naik’s teachings, she would put away her tennis rackets and India would be deprived of its present heart-throb and hope for the future of producing its first woman tennis number one. Following his advice, Muslim girls should keep out of diplomatic service, police and the army.
Such inane observations flew unchecked from Dr Naik’s lips. What age does he live in, 2005 or medieval times? Muslims have been left behind because large numbers of the semi-educated agree with what he says. Can’t Indian Muslims find another orator who can persuade them to discard backward ideas and take on challenges of the modern world? If hijab is to be obligatory, then Muslim women will never gain equality with men. What they need is a forward-looking leader like Ataturk Kamal Pasha and not the likes of Dr Naik, who are no better than an English-speaking maulana.
I consider Dr.Naik as someone who is so obsessed with his faith that he won't hesitate to ridicule the customs, tradition and the culture of other faiths.
A very talented man who could have put his talent to better use!
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PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: The Ummah
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More Dr Zakir Naik Mp3s can be downloaded HERE. For those interested
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Access the forum with a mobile phone via esato.mobi
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Posted: 2005-09-22 23:18
