Posted by julias
Nokia appears to have finally turned a corner with the Lumia 920, a smartphone that is seemingly selling quite well after a string of early flops from the struggling smartphone maker. According to Keepskor founder and Forbes contributor Tristan Louis, however, Nokia’s recent efforts will ultimately be for naught. 2013 will see a great deal of movement in the mobile industry according to the executive, and Nokia’s departure from the handset market will be among the year’s most notable events.
http://bgr.com/2013/01/02/nok[....]ll-smartphone-business-279281/
Posted by goldenface
Wow! I'll never believe it till it happens.
I don't doubt they have the ability to bounce back, it just takes time.
[ This Message was edited by: goldenface on 2013-01-02 15:53 ]
Posted by etaab
I'll believe it when i see it. What else would they do if they didnt make phones ?? Nokia software ? Nokia drive.. only ??
Posted by cu015170
I really don't see how they can "bounce back" ... they are too big to be selling 3-4 mil. smartphones per quarter, even with the added revenue from the maps and network segments they are still loosing money. They either need to downsize even further, maybe slightly bigger than HTC, or sell...
Posted by goldenface
They are were saying the same thing about Sony Ericsson a few years ago but 2013 looks like it could be see a turn around.
Nokia is a behemoth. Any turn around will be a monumental task but with Microsoft involved at least they have lots of money to throw around.
Posted by cu015170
What makes you think that MS will be just continue to give money to Nokia ? It will make more sense to just buy the thing
Posted by reeflotz
On 2013-01-02 17:30:50, etaab wrote:
I'll believe it when i see it. What else would they do if they didnt make phones ?? Nokia software ? Nokia drive.. only ??
Well they can start selling Nokia Cameras running with pureview in it
, I really wouldn't mind buying one if priced right.[ This Message was edited by: reeflotz on 2013-01-03 03:30 ]
Posted by mode
The only foreseeable way for Nokia to save itself is by turning to Android which unfortunately will never happen now. That's how Sony Ericsson / Sony survived otherwise at the rate they're going with slow updates & releases as well as bad marketing, the final nail should've sealed its coffin quite some time ago.
Posted by cu015170
Android is done.. Samsung makes the profits and the rest are fighting for whatever is left which isn't much. Just look at HTC and Sony.. compared to Samsung they make next to nothing.
So there is no way Nokia can compete with Samsung in the android realm..
I am really sad for Ericsson by the way... I don't like the fact that Sony took over one bit. The two companies that made all of this possible (Nokia and Ericsson), didn't play their cards right and now the American software cartel took over. The USofA controls 95% of the market.. all the rest are just there to provide the hardware for them.
For example, if Google decides to make Android proprietary, and use it only on Motorola devices...Samsung Mobile is done. What are they going to do ? Bada ? Good luck with that. Of course google are never going to do that since the more devices they have in circulation, the better for their core business, which is advertising.
Google's real customers are corporation which are willing to pay 40 bucks a click... the product their are selling is.. you and I.. clicks.. the more clicks, the better. That is the sad truth...
I really miss the days of unlocked phones.. no carrier subsidy.. no ads.. no one shoving phones in your hands telling you that that particular one is the best there is..
Posted by etaab
I dont think Android is by any means done. Samsung might be the biggest fish in the Android market but to be honest, they deserve it. They're the only company that offer such a wide range of various handsets for all budgets. Of those handsets, they're all pretty good.
Sony, HTC and the rest make less phones and the budget phones tend to be poor. So from them, its often the flagship or a rivals handset.
Samsung are just better at design, R&D, marketing, support - the whole bundle.
Only HTC have woken up this past twelve months and delivered something anywhere near as good as a Samsung product. The One X. Look at 2011 models, the SGS II and Sensation. The Sensation was a cheap, nasty, forgettable flagship. The SGS II is a high quality phone still almost two years on is still receiving updates.
The Sensation ? i can barely remember what it looks like.
On 2013-01-03 04:19:15, reeflotz wrote:
Well they can start selling Nokia Cameras running with pureview in it
, I really wouldn't mind buying one if priced right.
I really cannot imagine that happening at all. Nokia would have to make Pureview DSLR cameras. The compact camera market is shrinking year on year so there would be no point in entering that market. Which is why companies like Kodak arent going to make cameras anymore.
Posted by Bonovox
This is just rumours and bullshit. Things are looking up for Nokia recently.
_________________
Material things don't matter,but Rock n Roll does!!!!
HTC WP 8S
AKA,Bonovox
[ This Message was edited by: Sean72 on 2013-01-03 12:40 ]
Posted by Tsepz_GP
This wouldn't surprise me if it were true, and if it does happen it will be another example of why it just isn't always a great idea to team up with Microsoft, they have a habit of ruining their partners and competitors in unforgivable ways.
cu015170
I agree with your 1st two posts, people seem to think MS are just going to continue to fund Nokia no matter what, they forget the fact that MS once did consider buying Nokia as a whole but backed out once they saw the poor state Nokia was in financially, at the end of the day MS is a business that's focused on making profit and satisfying its board, at some point the investors will begin or have begun I'm sure to pressure Balmer into doing something about Nokia, like loosen ties, and partner up with another OEM (Htc), and they ,may also just buy the mobile business.
I also can't see Nokia bouncing back to what they were, they had the chance and blew it BIG time, their biggest mistake was leaving Symbian and Maemo/MeeGo, they had a chance to reinvent the touch UI and mobile computing, and then Elop arrived.
However in terms of Android, your last post, I disagree ,and agree with Etaab, Android is nowhere near done, the Android arena is a dynamic one, yes, Samsung are totally owning right now, but go back 2years ago and it was Htc, everyone seems to forget that. Sony had their chance and they COMPLETELY F'D it up, everyone seems to be blaming Samsung for the other OEMs not making money, but just look at the crap some of these OEMs produce and put their customers through, it's no wonder Samsung are owning them. Sony for example are delaying updates and releasing too many flagships in one year. In 2012 alone we had Xperia S, Acro S and Xperia T, on the other hand we have LG who's update support near to non-existent even for flagships, Htc seem to be trying to comeback, Motorola are downsizing and seem to only be serving the US market, the only OEMs who seem to be making any sort of major inroads are the Chinese, once they sort out their distribution channels I can just see Huawei, ZTE and w few others posing a real threat to Samsung.
Posted by reeflotz
On 2013-01-03 13:00:06, etaab wrote:
I really cannot imagine that happening at all. Nokia would have to make Pureview DSLR cameras. The compact camera market is shrinking year on year so there would be no point in entering that market. Which is why companies like Kodak arent going to make cameras anymore.
yeah I was just kidding, It's just that if this became true then all that research and breakthrough pureview did might just end up as a waste, don't know if microsoft has much use for it either.
I do agree with Tsepz, they should have stayed with symbian or meego, or I'd say if nokia did choose android during the time it was just starting to get popular, (when samsung just started using android and still had their bada OS wave phones) Nokia might've gotten a chance.
[ This Message was edited by: reeflotz on 2013-01-03 15:27 ]
Posted by etaab
Tsepz_GP may or may not remember around the time of the release of the N8 (Oct 2010), prior to Elop's Feb'11 burning platform statement we had quite a few strong words here on Esato about how i thought Symbian was still the best solution, whilst many thought it was dead compared to Android.
I said back then Symbian was still the best - and i still stand by that in many ways even though ive retired my old Symbian phones. Back then i thought Nokia should have done this, and i still think they should have done:
- Relegated Symbian to featurephone status and dump series 40
- Run Symbian 4 (never happened) AND / OR MeeGo as their flagship devices to take on the competition
- Run WP at the same time in case the above didnt work out.
Personally i dont think Nokia are going anywhere. WP8 is stunning, the new Lumia phones are stunning and it all makes the iPhone look old. Given a few more months or a year, WP8 should start making more dents in iOS market share as people wake up from the iOS brainwash.
Posted by Bonovox
@etaab I say Samsung is great with software,marketing etc but definately not design
Posted by etaab
In what way though ? I certainly dont think Samsung phones are badly designed or ugly. Maybe a little uninspiring but thats about it.
Theres only so much you can do with a full touch driven phone these days. You have a screen on the front and camera on the back.
Theres little room for design differences other than changing the colour of the phone, the materials used or overall shape. Look at the Lumia phones, suddenly Nokia is screaming at HTC for copying their colourful designs - but what else could they do ???
Posted by alenn
Samsung devices are great but definitely not the prettiest ones on the planet.
Nokia will sell even more of it's WP devices simply because Nokia makes the best hardware and cameras out there.
I hope that Nokia can go with one more OS other than WP.
Only Apple now is based on one OS...
Posted by cu015170
Samsung is killing everyone in the android realm... Nokia wouldn't stand a chance coming in that late in the "game"
http://www.htc.com/www/about/[....]-unaudited-results-for-4q-2012
http://www.gsmarena.com/q4_co[....]otselling_phones-news-5296.php
I don't know what makes them think that it will be any better with WP .. but overall, the reality is that WP will never dominate the market like Symbian did before, and therefore its pretty unlikely for Nokia as well. Again.. if they go Android they are facing Samsung, and there is no way they can dominate there.
The reason they were on top for so long was because they understood Symbian better than anyone (ironic, I know) and their competition simply had no chance. Even Ericsson couldn't keep up...
So from that perspective, Nokia needs to downsize very quickly. They were pushing between 15-20 million smartphones 3-4 years ago, now... they sell around 2-4 mil. with the help of Symbian.. Q4 results are out on the 21st I think, so we will see.. but I don't expect more than 4 mil. Lumias sold, and that is nowhere near where that number needs to be in order to sustain a company of this size. Yes.. they did make a lot of cuts, so their expenses are down.. but still, they need to move more boxes.
Posted by Bonovox
Nokia Android rumours again
http://www.wpcentral.com/stephen-elop-possibly-considering-android-were-skeptical
Posted by Bonovox
http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia[....]uarter_last_year-news-5329.php
And things are starting to look a bit better for Nokia
Posted by Supa_Fly
On 2013-01-02 20:21:14, cu015170 wrote:
What makes you think that MS will be just continue to give money to Nokia ? It will make more sense to just buy the thing
Actually it would NOT!
Reason:
More employees on payroll (severance packages, Retirement Savings Plans, Stock investments, payouts - HUGE to CEO's and other executive staff, not to mention a 1 time bonus payout for the board members - just think at a Gold company board members for just 4hrs meeting get $20'000; this is NOT the largest Gold company either!! Now there are manufacturing plants, laws could quickly be ammended, back taxes, refiling costs to the FCC, and regulatory trading bodies ... you can imagine the administrative costs and hiring for 3mths to quickly and accurately complete this).
^ don't assume for a moment that this is just easy as throwing cash in!!!
Basically this is most likely information that was leaked from a board meeting to a lessor employee!! Offers happen ALL the time up your arse, sideways from your balls, and down the hatch - every which way past Sunday really. Forgive the foulness - but it happens more than we all would like to think or entertain. That is business!!
I'm VERY curious if this was to happen just how Nokia would transform their business and into WHICH business? Recall they started as an appliance company then into textile then suddenly (when they where KING in textiles but profits could grow no longer,) they changed to the mobile industry right at their infancy!
Posted by cu015170
^ they will either have to downsize further to match their income levels, or... figure out something else because this current situation isn't working out for them.
On 2013-01-10 16:50:24, Sean72 wrote:
http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia[....]uarter_last_year-news-5329.php
And things are starting to look a bit better for Nokia
From 26+ million Symbians in 2010q4 to 4 million Windows Phones in 2012q4 ... very well done
[ This Message was edited by: cu015170 on 2013-01-11 04:37 ]
Posted by randomuser
6.6 million smartphones, up from 6.3 previous quarter. 4.4 million Lumias, up from 2.9 previous quarter. Not bad at all but also shows the Lumia 920 has not been successful at all.
Posted by Bonovox
Hmmm well ya gotta look at it from another angle. To start with there was the silly move by Nokia to have the 920 exclusive to some networks for a few months though that's ended now. It sold out in many places but Nokia simply didn't produce enough for demand and also many countries have said Christmas sales in stores have been only up 1%. A number of factors to think about. You cannot say after one short period the 920 is not a success.
Posted by TeeGee
On 2013-01-11 09:57:15, randomuser wrote:
Not bad at all but also shows the Lumia 920 has not been successful at all.
Nonsense, the Lumia 920 wasn't even available in most countries in Q4 2012.
Posted by randomuser
On 2013-01-12 15:16:13, TeeGee wrote:
On 2013-01-11 09:57:15, randomuser wrote:
Not bad at all but also shows the Lumia 920 has not been successful at all.
Nonsense, the Lumia 920 wasn't even available in most countries in Q4 2012.
Even though you may not want to accept the truth, fact is Lumia 920 has not been successful. But since you insist, let's discuss this after Q1 2013 results.
Posted by Marly
Of course 4.4 million is nothing, compared to the sales figures of an iPhone i.e., when there's a new model out, Apple sells this amount in a weekend, but there's growth and that's important. TeeGee is right, the Lumia 920 isn't out yet in a lot of countries, and where it's launched, there aren't enough of them in the stores and not all colours are equally available. Launch in Germany was two months ago and still not all of the large shops have all colours available.
Launch here in the Netherlands was this month and the webshop, where my husband pre-ordered his 920, has had many pre-orders for this model, but they'll recieve the first phones next week, only in black and not even enough for all pre-orders! So, when someone decides today, he wants to order one, he'll have to wait till the next batch arrives. People, who pre-ordered one in red, yellow or white (like my hubby), will have to wait even longer, till the end of the month, or even the first week of february.
This doesn't help sales figures look good!
Posted by Bonovox
In China which is a key market target for Nokia there is massive interest now for Nokia Windows 8 devices. I am not saying or really caring weather they sell more or less than Android or iOS but it is an improvement for Nokia and am sure they can continue to build on it
Posted by randomuser
Until Nokia agrees on using Android, I see zero chances of Nokia recovering. Win Phone 8 just doesn't have a big enough market to get Nokia out of its troubles.
All 3 WP8 vendors are reporting less than expected sales - Nokia, HTC as well as Samsung.
[ This Message was edited by: randomuser on 2013-01-13 04:01 ]
Posted by Bonovox
It's growing in popularity all the time and I don't even think MS want or expect to take over Android or iOS. As long as it continues to grow and maybe become 3rd in the market which I think it will then Nokia will survive. They still have other services and markets too and MS is hardly going to go under are they?? MS don't rely on their mobile market. The recent push in marketing by MS and Nokia has worked pretty well so far. Never before have I seen a rush of people in China snapping up 920's. It's too early to say imo. I don't think Nokia or HTC were expecting 4 million pre orders like Samsung or Apple have but imo it's a positive start
_________________
Material things don't matter,but Rock n Roll does!!!!
HTC WP 8S
AKA,Bonovox
[ This Message was edited by: Sean72 on 2013-01-13 10:37 ]