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Macidonia Is greece |
puppy22
Joined: Oct 19, 2005
Posts: 0
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the only think i would like to add is that it's wrong to use the words "Greece, Greek, Greek language". the correct words are: "Hellas, Hellenian, Hellenic language".
You will see NO word such as greek, greece, or any other word made up by those in ANY official letter or in ANY official announcement or in ANY official speech from the goverments in Hellas hundreds of years now.
I remind you that the word "Macedonia" has that form due to the English translation and as every word in any language, in English they try to define it with the latin alphabet.
Therefore the original word for what we today call Macedonia is: Makedonia.
If you look for the root of that word you will find the root RedBack gave.
Also i remind you that decades ago, there was a voting taking place in United Nations about the international Official language that all countries will use as the main language between the speech between them. Untill then it was French the one.
English took 1 more vote against the Hellenic which had one less. The reason that the voting was between English and Hellenic was that the first, is one of the easiest languages to learn due to it's simplicity of grammar, and the Hellenic language because 31% percent of the words used have a Hellenic root, almost 63% of the modern languages derives from some form of ancient hellenics, and because it's the only one, of the mother languages of the world that is not dead.
So we might all consider to look behind the meannings that modern words giving us. Offcourse it's politics, but on the other hand i have never heard or read in this topic any reason why the name: "Macedonia" isn't Hellenic.
I believe that propaganda exists in countries that are often aims to expand their boarders. Unfortunately for those who believe that a "Greek propaganda" exists i have to inform them that Hellas since the ancient times and until recently just afte WW1, the boarders of Hellas are constantly DECREASING...!!!
I have to remind you that even nowadays Turks, our neighbors are producing maps, that include in their territory, Chios, Lesbos, Kastelorizo, Rhodos... islands that you know that belong to Hellas cause you have been there for summer vacations...! On the other hand if a Hellenian says in a forum that that is wrong, for some reason the rest of the world says that it's a "Greek propaganda". By the way the word Greek cames from the french word grek (i do not know the french spelling), and that is caming from one the turkish two owrds using to define Hellenians during the 400 hundred years they were in Hellas: grekos and unan.
So before say anything i would prefer to look first into both sides arguments and try to find the truth (mostly somewhere in the middle) and not necessarily look into independent and international accepted historians cause as we know the history is written always from the winner and not the losser...! otherwise you driving crazy the Hellenians and forcing them to use expresions like: "There are two kind of people; Greeks and those who where wish to be Greeks".
So let put all the pieces together before saying anything, otherwise our opinion doesn't count. | |
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FluffyBunny
Joined: Jan 25, 2004
Posts: 25
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So hellas, greece, ellada... is it really that important?!
Lots of things are made into english terms.
Besides: Go Greece |
*Jojo*
Joined: Oct 15, 2003
Posts: > 500
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I really loved seeing the movie "Troy" (Brad Pitt/Peter O' Toole). In a way some Greek warriors were shown in that flick !
[addsig] |
jcpsad
Joined: Oct 15, 2002
Posts: > 500
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somehow it is really nice reading this thread and learning new things, history facts that is... 
www.photos.panelo.com
www.panelo.com
www.bilog.panelo.com
www.pbalive.panelo.com |
superfot
Joined: Aug 24, 2003
Posts: 65
From: Greece
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i m not so good at english but i will try so dont laugh at me for my english
Before the word Greece,hellas(english word)ELLADA,ELLAS,ελλην(greek word)were used(the word use for the origin and when greeks started to have the united feeling that they must be united to face the different dangers) they were tribes(athinaioi-athens,spartiates-sparti,troy-troes,makedonia-macedones......for example like newyork-newyorkers) with the same origin(and they know they have the same origin(greek origin (eliniki) origin)who compete each other in everything (make war each other and of course the enemies of greece take advantage the "civil war" and only under the same danger the tribes were united to face enemies thats why they invented olympic games so they stop fight each other as soldiers and play atheltic games so they prove which is better)
spartans were good in war,athens were in philoshophy,art......IN DIFERENT TIME PERIODS some tribes have the power an be something like capital of greece in different time periods, so we all know and they teach in the schools all over the world(i m sure not in skpojia)about the democracy that invented in athens,philoshophy,art,astronomy.......etc,the time that athens were the first power in the greek area(the same origin) between the other tribes(thats not the pefect word -tribe to describe)the other tribes have not power as athens and they were less civilized,of course they were good in other things for example warior skills like spartans.Athens understimate the other tribes because they didnt live civilized and they were farmers who live in villages(the most of the tribes were farmers except athens)thats why when you see the movie alexander the great sometimes the wariors of alexander an his father say "we the sons of villages manage to conquer the biggest enemy of greece persia(the today iran)" and athens didnt manage to do it
the time athens lose his power and makedonia[(one tribe of greece among at lot with the same origin greek the tribe's city was makedonia alexanders city before him his father philip was king it was placed in todays northern territories of Greece till the boarders with
albania,bulgaria,skpojia(fake macedonia)] gained power and move the capital of greece to his city makedonia with alexander the great king and he manage to unite all the tribes(except lakedemonion) and finally conquer persia(a dream of athens which became true from the tribe athens understimated) and they spread their civilasation(greek civilasation) all over the world and they conquer the known world which the citizen were all kind of origin not in greek area(the today greece with bulgaria,serbia,albania,turkey) but in the area alexander conquer
alexander was educated in athens because athens was civilasation center of greece.
after alexander the great death the empire was splitted and gradully the empire lose his power an generally GREECE(all tribes) lose their power
then we have roman empire conquer greeks(first greek area and the way longer than greek area) qradually(today italian origin) who understand how important is the greek knowledge and take advantage
of course the didnt just copy the greek cilisation they adopted the greek way of thinking,educating and in some levels they manage to be better and continue the greek cilvilasation greek were slaves in that time but in better way was faced by romans than other slaves because roman was saying"we conquer greeks with guns but they conquer us with their civilisation"
after roman empire(rome lose his power and influence) losing his power the new rome byzantium were founded by greeks in constantinoupole also named poli which means city(today instanbul) the byzantium empire was from.... see the map http://xenohistorian.faithweb.com/worldhis/map17.gif
when byzantum starting lose his power(of course they were alot of other invaders before turkish,turkish are the last) turkish invade byzantium we were slaves for 400 hunder years till 1821 which we started revolution we manage to take back from turkish a small part from today greece(we had help for phillhellenist) and then we joined our powers as one power (greece,serbia,boulgaria,montenegro) with other minorities which were under the otomman possesion so we manage as team to win the ottoman and then divide the parts we win the bigest took greece and others smallest parts the other countries
Greece today has the biggest part of ancient makedonia another smaler part bulgaria,another smaller part albania and another the smallest actually skopjia only because they live in a small part of alexanders city(Ancient makedonia) they try to convince that they come from alexander origin which actually they have slavic origin) and they have fake maps lke that http://www.unet.com.mk/oldmacedonianmaps/images/64.jpg in the net wich that means that i live in skopjia(fyrom)
thats real official worlwide history of course i have some mistakes im not history expert but i try to keep the meaning and is written in avery very very...........collective way so i dont have to write a whole book.
greece is surrender by "enemies first turkey,second bulgaria,albania who want to extend and skopjia which they think they come from alexander the great and they named their country macedonia,skopjia because they live in a small part of ancients makedonian land has support from us not because u.s goverment is interested in historical truth but because the have economical and militairy interests.
sorry for my english
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FluffyBunny
Joined: Jan 25, 2004
Posts: 25
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Quote:
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On 2005-10-30 02:33:19, JN wrote:
I really loved seeing the movie "Troy" (Brad Pitt/Peter O' Toole). In a way some Greek warriors were shown in that flick !
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*lol* Yeah, I'm glad that it's following the written story soooo weell!!!  |
FluffyBunny
Joined: Jan 25, 2004
Posts: 25
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Speaking about democracy - it's fascinating that slaves and women had no vote in the fair lands of ancient Greece.
I'd say that many need to live in the present instead of ~2000 years back in time. Especially for Greece that has very real issues to deal with when it comes to people's social well-being, retirement funds, the joining of Turkey in the EU and so on.
Not to speak about FYR Macedonia, I'd say: change name, get over it and start building a new future for you and your countrymen.
Though, speaking about living in the present; states such as FYR Macedonia, Albania and even Greece are very young as it comes to being "independent" states without either communistic or otherwise running dictators / systems.
So, I hope that it'll get better - in all ways. |
superfot
Joined: Aug 24, 2003
Posts: 65
From: Greece
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the philoshophists believe that woman and man are the same and they were the first who sayed that all the people are the same(i heard they did something like tests in different genre of people in slaves comparison to athens citizen first they teach them the same thingsand then they test them i know its not the best ),that earths shape is round but goverment of ancient athens goverment support a philoshopher that suits them so every philoshopher who was against that philoshopher and say his otherwise opinion(about a philoshophing matter) in public it would killed of course tha happened only in years of declesion they same hapened with roman empire which lose his power due to corruption nand the came the declesion
they were tribes(greek origin who had women as leaders and godesses like amazones and women had the upper hand in everything...
its better to have some disanvantages and a lot o avantages(the start of civilisation who tought all over the world in everything from science to politics,the way of living studing and the perfect mathematically language (which sciences(not only greeks)say there is no way this language made by humans) than living in caves like other countries-tribes and communicate with gibber and wait greeks to teach them the civilisation
ancient greek world was not perfect but it was the start of everything together with egyptians and chinesse
when christe came change a lot and give accoutrements to make the world better.......
im not racist and i will never be the best human i meet in my life is turkish and not greek you can not judge people from their goverments also about macedonia when i go to england(visit my uncle) i visit a museum and there was a an ancient shield of great alexander who was written from alenxander in ancient greek and said about his origin of greece and macedonian city-country.....
greeks say that there is two kind of people greeks or not greeks for their education because back in ancient times everyone who doesnt have greek education it didnt have education at all
always friendly
sorry for my english
according to the map in the first page i live in skopjia and im not greek and i should not write things against skopjia are you kidding me withis map
this map is false fyrom(skopjia)is much smaller than that and i live in thessaloniki a greek city
[ This Message was edited by: superfot on 2005-10-31 13:30 ]
[ This Message was edited by: superfot on 2005-10-31 13:34 ]
[ This Message was edited by: superfot on 2005-11-08 14:35 ] |
puppy22
Joined: Oct 19, 2005
Posts: 0
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Quote:
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On 2005-10-31 03:22:48, FluffyBunny wrote:
Speaking about democracy - it's fascinating that slaves and women had no vote in the fair lands of ancient Greece.
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I you count the degree of democracy in voting numbers i cannot say anything, but democracy is not that.
freedom and democracy are not the, so please do not confuse them...
Also i will remind you that the true democracy is one of the worst political scheme you can have. the reason is that for example if the society you are living in, the majority believes that it is correct (with no reason) to take your house, it's a democratic action, cause they do what the majority wants...!!! so don't be plastic in terms but elastic.
you talked about slaves... slaves in ancient hellas had rights...!!! ancient historiants say so, not me. and also they believd so much in democracy about their society that every single decision was makeing after the voting of the people (i agree, not the women) but in the house women was the leader of the family, not the man.
Also they have trully believe that your freedom, stops at the point where my freedom begins...!!! don't confuse that with democracy... democracy is not saying what is right anf wrong, democracy says what th majority believes...! if they believe right or wrong that's another story.
So an example of bad action with democratic background is what the usa do everytime they want to attack to the middle east...! the vote and the take decision... most of the times is the wrong one, but it's a democratic one...!!
for example the so called the most democratic country of the world where you can do enything (they say so) they do not allow you to smoke OUTSIDE the buildings...!!! this is a democratic country? i believe yes it is, but what they do not taking into account is the freedom of the people.
so the fyrom people they might say whatever they want, the truth is one and only - they are wrong cause even the right to have a different opinion on true historical facts, where given by the term of "freedom of speach" and "democracy" which where given to them by hellenians...!
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KingBooker5
Joined: May 12, 2007
Posts: > 500
From: London, England
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On 2005-08-02 10:29:46, gelfen wrote:
Macedon was not an ancient greek province, but an independent kingdom formed in the 7th century BC, which became politically aligned with the rest of ancient greece in th 5th century BC. while much of the macedonian aristocracy did have greek blood, the common people were generally considered to be of a different race and origin.
prior to the expansion under Phillip II, Macedon occupied approximately the same area as the "province" of macedonia in modern greece, but under his reign grew to include the region currently referred to as fyr macedonia (btw - the reason it's called fyr is because it only constitutes the regions liberated after the breakup of yugoslavia and not in greece). the sovreignty or otherwise of macedonia has been clouded in the 20th century since the Balkan Wars, due to concerted propaganda efforts by the various countries which claimed macedonian territory in the treaty of bucharest (including serbia, greece, albania, and in post-WWII times yugoslavia) to appropriate macedonian historical icons, pass off macedonian as a language fabricated in the 20th century, and even deny the very existence of the name macedonia.
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[ This Message was edited by: gelfen on 2005-08-02 09:31 ]
lol you really need to get some facts straight. Greece was part of the mighty Roman empire in 7th BC! How can you say it was an indipendent kingdom in that time when it is clearly a fact it was part of Greece over a millenia ago. Me thinks that a certain Gelfen is jelous of Greek history.. As Redback so rightfuly states a place with no identity trying to steal the history of a great nation. Hell, if I was the Greek PM and I knew the situation of the whole Macedonia thing was gonna go like this I would threaten and invasion!
What makes me sick to my stomouch is that there is a statue of the legendary Alexander the great in the FYR Macedonia. When the FYR Macedonia clearly has nothing to do with Alexander and they have a stature of him up, how can you say there not trying to take some of the identity of Greece away?
The mighty Hellenic empire. Most of the east was the empire of Alexander. The rest was the colonies of Greece prior his birth. This is the helleic empire. Its amazing how some shallow minded people believe that Alexanders empire was part of what is now the FYR Macedonia. Amazing isnt it?
[ This Message was edited by: KingBooker5 on 2007-09-29 21:05 ]
[ This Message was edited by: KingBooker5 on 2007-09-29 21:06 ] |
sealover94
Joined: Oct 25, 2006
Posts: > 500
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Slavic people of Skopje.Be proud of being slavs and not slaves...yet...
HELLAS = MACEDONIA
[ This Message was edited by: sealover94 on 2007-09-29 22:27 ] |
Bole7
Joined: Oct 04, 2007
Posts: 1
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The picture above thats real Macedonia.
While greeks cities were fighting between themself Athens, Sparta......
Macedonia was kingdom that deafeted greece in the time of Filip II.
In 1913 Macedonia was divided between Serbia, Greece and Bulgaria
The Republic of Macedonia that exsits today is the part that Serbia got when Macedonia was splited and now the Greeks are afraid that they'll lose their part so they are trying to proove that Macedonia was part of Greece. SO EVERY FATASS GREEK CAN f**k OF COS MACEDONIA IS MACEDONIA AND GREECE IS GREECE AND ALEXANDER IS MACEDONIAN. | |
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Posted: 2005-10-20 00:53
