Posted by pinguino1
@max_wedge
The math is right Max. let me explain:
The original question was that a 65000 color palette would show bands in full gradient screen from dark blue at the top to light blue at the bottom and that a 16 million color palette would not.
On the Xperia that would be 800 LINES of 800 different blues.
On the Iphone that would be 480 LINES of 480 different blues.
Assuming that the first dark blue and last light blue are the same on both phones, that means that the Xperia will have in between 320 shades of blue MORE than the iPhone. This Difference is NOTICEABLE it is almost HALF! the number of shades.
But you are right if we talk about pictures. Every picture will be differente in tonality and number of colors. But which one will look better is another topic beyond this post: DETAIL vs COLOR. but quickly think about this:
A very complex detailed and colorful object in one square inch of screen.
the XPERIA will be very detailed object with 96000 pixels with a max of 65000 colors.
The iPhone will be a more blurred object with 26000 pixels and just 26000 colors (!?)
So the answer is: depending of the type of picture.
But what is really wrong is your statement:
... "If you want to show more colours than 65000 colours then you need a display that has higher resolution"...
I'm not blaming you on this one because I'm sure you didn't mean to say that.
Obviously HIGHER RESOLUTION doesn't make more colors. If your palette is 65000 you can not have more than 65000 doesn't matter what resolution.
*************************
@Michka.
You wrote:
..."How many shades of grey with a 16 bits screen?
Ahem.... 32!
With a 24 bits screen?..... 256. "...
Ahem... That's totally wrong.
I going to let you tell me how many shades of gray.
No binary math here, just comon sense:
QUESTION:
In your opinion how many shades of gray are in a palette of more than 16 million colors?? (exactly 1677216 colors)
BTW let me mention this. a full color palette with shades next to each other can ONLY be described on a tri-dimentional space. (topic for another time)
.
Posted by WhyBe
On 2008-10-26 02:15:33, michka wrote:
Now, let me think..... Suppose you want to look at a black and white picture.
How many shades of grey with a 16 bits screen?
Ahem.... 32!
With a 24 bits screen?..... 256.
Which screen will show the most banding? On which screen will the same B/W picture show best?
Not completely true. Read the first paragraph.
Math aside, I seriously doubt if anyone could tell the difference between a 24bit/18bit/16bit image.
[ This Message was edited by: WhyBe on 2008-10-26 04:56 ]
Posted by koto
@Pinguino2
Thank you for detailed explanation. For me it is enough to know that in practice the difference is not noticable. Otherwise it would bother me
Posted by norti
On 2008-10-26 05:05:11, WhyBe wrote:
Math aside, I seriously doubt if anyone could tell the difference between a 24bit/18bit/16bit image.
It may be strange, but there are people who can hear the difference between 192k and 128k mp3s and there are who can see the difference between 16 and 24 bit
Most of the people don't, but there are many who can.
Posted by JD4341
On 2008-10-25 22:03:05, Jah wrote:
I suspect the Vodafone devices may have a different ROM given all the rumours about Vodafone network issues delaying the launch - has anyone already got a Voda X1 -please check the ROM version/date.
On my VODAFONE device I have the following:
ROM Version 1.02.161.7
Rom Date 09/17/08
Radio vaersion 1.06.25.29
Protocol version 52.43.25.24u
ExtPkg version ****
I didn't see 'Extpkg' version listed in Masseur's screen shot so I left the numbers blank incase this was a security issue ( I am new to WM!). But as this a VF FW would ExtPkg just mean extention package? Anyway there is the ROM info for those that are interested.
On my VF device none of the actual VF stuff works. I can get on to other web sites fine but not vodafonelive, vodafone find and go etc. Not yet tried customer services as I am still finding my way around.
The Google panel has been replaced by a VF panel...you can still access google from here aswell as the VF services (that are not working for me). Also found that the 'Design' Panel is missing from the VF version.
Still playing...
Posted by pinguino1
@ WhyBe,
Thanks, something new to me.
So when working with grays it doesn't matter if it is 16 bits or 24 bits.
If Photoshop let me pick from a palette of thousands of grays only 256 will be displayed and stored.
Thanks, you always come to the rescue.
Posted by JD4341
On 2008-10-25 21:33:28, gforce23 wrote:
On 2008-10-25 18:56:35, JD4341 wrote:
I was a bit scared that the X1 would be a lot bigger than my P1i but your pic has laid those doubts to rest. Thanks.
No problem...smaller but heavier
Posted by WhyBe
On 2008-10-26 08:01:05, norti wrote:
On 2008-10-26 05:05:11, WhyBe wrote:
Math aside, I seriously doubt if anyone could tell the difference between a 24bit/18bit/16bit image.
It may be strange, but there are people who can hear the difference between 192k and 128k mp3s and there are who can see the difference between 16 and 24 bit
Most of the people don't, but there are many who can.
Nah, they're just guessing.
Posted by max_wedge
On 2008-10-26 05:02:24, pinguino2 wrote:
@max_wedge
The math is right Max. let me explain:
The original question was that a 65000 color palette would show bands in full gradient screen from dark blue at the top to light blue at the bottom and that a 16 million color palette would not.
On the Xperia that would be 800 LINES of 800 different blues.
On the Iphone that would be 480 LINES of 480 different blues.
Assuming that the first dark blue and last light blue are the same on both phones, that means that the Xperia will have in between 320 shades of blue MORE than the iPhone. This Difference is NOTICEABLE it is almost HALF! the number of shades.
But you are right if we talk about pictures. Every picture will be differente in tonality and number of colors. But which one will look better is another topic beyond this post: DETAIL vs COLOR. but quickly think about this:
A very complex detailed and colorful object in one square inch of screen.
the XPERIA will be very detailed object with 96000 pixels with a max of 65000 colors.
The iPhone will be a more blurred object with 26000 pixels and just 26000 colors (!?)
So the answer is: depending of the type of picture.
But what is really wrong is your statement:
... "If you want to show more colours than 65000 colours then you need a display that has higher resolution"...
I'm not blaming you on this one because I'm sure you didn't mean to say that.
Obviously HIGHER RESOLUTION doesn't make more colors. If your palette is 65000 you can not have more than 65000 doesn't matter what resolution.
*************************
You quoted me out of context. I was talking about a hyperphetical display of only 65000 pixels, to illustrate a point. I didn't say that a higher display automatically gives more colours. But if you have a display that can only display a total of 153600 pixels (ie 480x320), then you need a higher display resolution to show more than 153600 colours (that's assuming each pixel is a different colour).
For example if an image has 160000 different colours, then you wouldn't be able to fit all the colours on a 153600 pixel display. (you can have no more than 1 colour per pixel)
So even if iphone can display 16million colours, it can only display AT MAXIMUM 153600 different colours at one time. However this is more than the X1 which can only display 65000 (approx) colours regardless of the resolution. imho this does make a little difference, though as has been pointed out not everyone can tell the difference.
I can (I just produced two images in different colour depths from the same original), however if you didn't have the two side by side I wouldn't notice.
So I'm not arguing that iphone images will look better, the difference is very small. But your maths isn't 100% correct. Unless of course you want to produce a colour chart with 800 neatly lined up shades of blue
Then you would be right.
_________________
Tricks and Tricks for K800 File System Tweaks for K750[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2008-10-26 07:54 ]
Posted by Ratti3
This is for those asking about the colour depth on the SE X1 screen
have a read here:
http://blogs.msdn.com/windows[....]archive/2005/09/07/462187.aspx
Posted by Rodin69
When looking at pictures with gradients, the bandings are often quite visible if you compare a 65k image with a 16M image.
But then, most normal pictures usually don't have those large areas of the same colour.
But it also depends on how the viewer displays the picture. It can chose between error diffusion and nearest colour. If error diffusion is used, then the difference is very hard to see. You would have to zoom in a lot on the image to notice it.
I prepared an image for you. I resized and cropped the image to make it 800x480. Then I converted it to 65k colours. One with nearest colour and one with error diffusion.
When I compared the images on the phone it was very hard to notice the difference. It was visible, but only after hard studying of different areas on the image. So I would say that in most normal pictures you won't have a chance to see any difference between a 16M image and a 65k image.
Original picture:
Decreased to 65k colours using nearest colour selection:
Decreased to 65k colours using error diffusion:
And finally a 256 colours gif just to show that when using error diffusion you can use quite a few colours without totally ruining the original picture. At least you won't get much bandings:
Posted by Tigershark42
On 2008-10-26 09:27:57, Ratti3 wrote:
This is for those asking about the colour depth on the SE X1 screen
have a read here:
http://blogs.msdn.com/windows[....]archive/2005/09/07/462187.aspx
The article itself says that WM supports more colours. Moreover, this article was written 3 years ago, when speeds were way slower than they are now. So surely the colours could've been upped by now. I definately expect it in WM7, anyway.
Posted by McKinley
I don't know if it was in here or in another forum where I mentioned the limitation of just having 65k colours but I also want to say how fantastic its display is. I haven't seen a phone having this good display.
The viewable angle is 178 degrees and colours remain same in every angle.
Uncheck adjust background illumination and experience the true power of its display. I just want to say, it's probably the best display on the market today.
Posted by masseur
one thing I've found I don't like is the placement of the speakers as I find if I want to watch a video or listen to a song while holding the phone, the speakers are covered by my palm unless I hold the phone half way up.
Not a big deal really as usually I would use the headset, but...
Posted by Tigershark42
On 2008-10-26 08:32:47, JD4341 wrote:
On 2008-10-25 22:03:05, Jah wrote:
I suspect the Vodafone devices may have a different ROM given all the rumours about Vodafone network issues delaying the launch - has anyone already got a Voda X1 -please check the ROM version/date.
On my VODAFONE device I have the following:
ROM Version 1.02.161.7
Rom Date 09/17/08
Radio vaersion 1.06.25.29
Protocol version 52.43.25.24u
ExtPkg version ****
I didn't see 'Extpkg' version listed in Masseur's screen shot so I left the numbers blank incase this was a security issue ( I am new to WM!). But as this a VF FW would ExtPkg just mean extention package? Anyway there is the ROM info for those that are interested.
On my VF device none of the actual VF stuff works. I can get on to other web sites fine but not vodafonelive, vodafone find and go etc. Not yet tried customer services as I am still finding my way around.
The Google panel has been replaced by a VF panel...you can still access google from here aswell as the VF services (that are not working for me). Also found that the 'Design' Panel is missing from the VF version.
Still playing...
Which panel do you mean by the Design Panel, BTW? Which one in this pic:
Also, can you choose to replace the Vodafone panel with a different one?
Posted by Astral1
Sorry to butt in here, but i could do with a quick answer if possible.
My X1 should arrive tomorrow, and it sounds like there is no mem card in the phone for us UK users.
So,
Does it require simple micro SD cards, or is it compatible with micro SD HC cards?
Thanks for any help, just dont want to order the wrong ones!
Posted by max_wedge
On 2008-10-26 09:33:40, Rodin69 wrote:
When looking at pictures with gradients, the bandings are often quite visible if you compare a 65k image with a 16M image.
But then, most normal pictures usually don't have those large areas of the same colour.
But it also depends on how the viewer displays the picture. It can chose between error diffusion and nearest colour. If error diffusion is used, then the difference is very hard to see. You would have to zoom in a lot on the image to notice it.
excellent example of the issue. Good answer for those who go on about Nokia 16 million colours to SE A200's 263K
Posted by Creid
x1 supports mirco sdhc
[ This Message was edited by: Creid on 2008-10-26 13:23 ]
Posted by hydro-
On 2008-10-26 13:06:47, McKinley wrote:
I don't know if it was in here or in another forum where I mentioned the limitation of just having 65k colours but I also want to say how fantastic its display is. I haven't seen a phone having this good display.
The viewable angle is 178 degrees and colours remain same in every angle.
Uncheck adjust background illumination and experience the true power of its display. I just want to say, it's probably the best display on the market today.
Hey where do I go to do that?
Posted by masseur
settings -> system -> illumination
edit: hmm, although I don't see anything labelled "background illumination" there
_________________
Unless I'm very much mistaken...
A-ZoTT
[ This Message was edited by: masseur on 2008-10-26 13:35 ]
Posted by hydro-
Found it! its under power then backlight.
Posted by masseur
ah! "auto adjust backlight"
I assumed when illumination was mentioned that it was one of the illumination settings.
be aware that unchecking that may degrade battery life, unless you also reduce the intensity (which appears when you uncheck the box)
Posted by hydro-
Does anyone have any good websites with great aps for the x1? Ive tried google and they are all pretty much boring..
Posted by JD4341
On 2008-10-26 13:48:05, Tigershark42 wrote:
On 2008-10-26 08:32:47, JD4341 wrote:
On 2008-10-25 22:03:05, Jah wrote:
I suspect the Vodafone devices may have a different ROM given all the rumours about Vodafone network issues delaying the launch - has anyone already got a Voda X1 -please check the ROM version/date.
On my VODAFONE device I have the following:
ROM Version 1.02.161.7
Rom Date 09/17/08
Radio vaersion 1.06.25.29
Protocol version 52.43.25.24u
ExtPkg version ****
I didn't see 'Extpkg' version listed in Masseur's screen shot so I left the numbers blank incase this was a security issue ( I am new to WM!). But as this a VF FW would ExtPkg just mean extention package? Anyway there is the ROM info for those that are interested.
On my VF device none of the actual VF stuff works. I can get on to other web sites fine but not vodafonelive, vodafone find and go etc. Not yet tried customer services as I am still finding my way around.
The Google panel has been replaced by a VF panel...you can still access google from here aswell as the VF services (that are not working for me). Also found that the 'Design' Panel is missing from the VF version.
Still playing...
Which panel do you mean by the Design Panel, BTW? Which one in this pic:
Also, can you choose to replace the Vodafone panel with a different one?
Below pic is taken from the documentation that comes in the box about the 'panels'
No you cannot remove the VODAFONE panel or the Experia Panel, everything else you can play with.
Sofar I have found the SPD mobile shell the best panel.
I don't know if anybody else has found this but everytime I open a panel with a clock displayed is shows New York time (I am in UK) after about 2 seconds it refreshes to give UK time. Nothing major just a bit of a pain.
Posted by Creid
On 2008-10-26 14:48:27, hydro- wrote:
Does anyone have any good websites with great aps for the x1? Ive tried google and they are all pretty much boring..
Try these dude
http://www.pocketpcaddict.com/forums/files.html
http://pocketpcfreeware.com/
http://www.freewarepocketpc.net/ppc-tag-arcade.html
http://freewareppc.com/astronomy/astronomy.shtml
http://www.1800pocketpc.com/
Posted by McKinley
On 2008-10-26 14:34:11, masseur wrote:
settings -> system -> illumination
edit: hmm, although I don't see anything labelled "background illumination" there
_________________
Unless I'm very much mistaken...
A-ZoTT
[ This Message was edited by: masseur on 2008-10-26 13:35 ]
Do keep in mind that I have a Swedish version of X1 so I don't know what things are being called in your phone. Should have written backlight in the first place.
Posted by max_wedge
On 2008-10-26 14:54:28, JD4341 wrote:
No you cannot remove the VODAFONE panel or the Experia Panel, everything else you can play with.
Sofar I have found the SPD mobile shell the best panel.
I don't know if anybody else has found this but everytime I open a panel with a clock displayed is shows New York time (I am in UK) after about 2 seconds it refreshes to give UK time. Nothing major just a bit of a pain.
maybe tell phone not to update time via network then set regional settings to your location?
re: vodafone panel, I wonder if it can be set in registry? maybe a reg hack could get rid of it.
Posted by Jah
Sound quality findings:
- 3G on, WMA music via the WM Media Player, result average or lower then average
- 3G on, mP3 format via SE's media player, great sound reproduction
- 3G off, WMA or SE's own player, sound reproduction even better
A2DP not as good as Nokia E90
So music reproduction needs more work!
Posted by Tigershark42
10 Panels? WTF?
How does that work...
Could you post a screen or something? Thanks.
[ This Message was edited by: Tigershark42 on 2008-10-26 14:15 ]
Posted by McKinley
About WMA Jah,
do you know any way to play your WMA files with SE player instead of that crappy win media player?
Posted by masseur
@McKinley, no worries, I fully understand... and btw, you can buy/use CorePlayer if you don't like the standard WM player
btw, I'm getting to like the optical joystick. it works quite well although its use is probably limited given that you just need to touch the screen for quicker results.
any other thoughts on that as I've not seen much mentioned about this
_________________
Unless I'm very much mistaken...
A-ZoTT
Posted by McKinley
I like the optical joystick but it's a tad too sensitive sometimes so I need to use the standard D-pad to go back or forward one or two steps.
Posted by JD4341
Has anybody tried to install Wayfinder from the CD?
It seems there is no English version on the CD.
I have been able to instal the Spanish version fine. There are several languages available too....just not English!
Posted by McKinley
On 2008-10-26 15:25:08, JD4341 wrote:
Has anybody tried to install Wayfinder from the CD?
It seems there is no English version on the CD.
I have been able to instal the Spanish version fine. There are several languages available too....just not English!
The installation file didn't even start for me so I had to download it from wayfinder.com
about that, something must be very wrong with my Wayfinder because it's horrid to use, slow as the slowest snail.
The graphic stutters way too much
[ This Message was edited by: McKinley on 2008-10-26 14:28 ]
Posted by JD4341
On 2008-10-26 15:27:51, McKinley wrote:
On 2008-10-26 15:25:08, JD4341 wrote:
Has anybody tried to install Wayfinder from the CD?
It seems there is no English version on the CD.
I have been able to instal the Spanish version fine. There are several languages available too....just not English!
The installation file didn't even start for me so I had to download it from wayfinder.com
about that, something must be very wrong with my Wayfinder because it's horrid to use, slow as the slowest snail.
The graphic stutters way too much
[ This Message was edited by: McKinley on 2008-10-26 14:28 ]
Thanks for the quick reply....is it a free download from wayfinder.com?
Posted by McKinley
All X1 users have three free months so just go ahead and download.
I think this is new with Wayfinder 8 but now you can download the maps to your phone.
Posted by JD4341
On 2008-10-26 15:34:32, McKinley wrote:
All X1 users have three free months so just go ahead and download.
I think this is new with Wayfinder 8 but now you can download the maps to your phone.
Thanks I will give it a try
Posted by Rodin69
On 2008-10-26 14:54:28, JD4341 wrote:
I don't know if anybody else has found this but everytime I open a panel with a clock displayed is shows New York time (I am in UK) after about 2 seconds it refreshes to give UK time. Nothing major just a bit of a pain.
It's because the first image is just a "thumbnail" without any dynamic content. It's just a BMP-image.
The ones used for Sony Ericsson's panels can be found in \\Program\\Panels\\SonyEricssonPanel
There are a total of four images. One small landscape, and one small portrait for the panel view (the view you get when pressing the Panel button), and two large (one landscape and one portrait) that are shown while the panel is loading.
Actually in the SonyEricssonPanel folder you have a total of eight BMP-images, because you have two different Sony Ericsson Panels.
You can probably change those bitmaps to anything you want as long as the dimensions of them are the same, but I don't know this for sure since I haven't tried it.
Posted by masseur
I haven't attempted to install wayfinder but can confirm that tomtom 7 and Garmin XT both work perfectly on the WVGA screen although the Garmin keeps giving me the "Warning - Use GPS safely" screen on each startup which it didn't do on the Diamond
@Rodin69, I agree with you on the clock thing. I'm having a little play to see what can be changed as the Sony Ericsson panel 1 says that 8 out of 10 blocks have been used.
I'm also keen to try the panel SDK and see what it offers too
Posted by mattiL
On 2008-10-26 15:50:08, masseur wrote:
I haven't attempted to install wayfinder but can confirm that tomtom 7 and Garmin XT both work perfectly on the WVGA screen although the Garmin keeps giving me the "Warning - Use GPS safely" screen on each startup which it didn't do on the Diamond
@Rodin69, I agree with you on the clock thing. I'm having a little play to see what can be changed as the Sony Ericsson panel 1 says that 8 out of 10 blocks have been used.
I'm also keen to try the panel SDK and see what it offers too
Any chance of a picture of X1 running tomtom ? (and/or garmin)
Posted by masseur
On 2008-10-26 16:08:02, mattiL wrote:
Any chance of a picture of X1 running tomtom ? (and/or garmin)
sure, always happy to please. These are random London shots as I don't really want to show where I live
btw, I really do prefer the Garmin interface and only use Garmin dedicated GPS' too
Garmin XT
TomTom 7
Posted by SE-Naz
@masseur
Can you give me an update on what you think of this device??? How is the battery life so far???
Cheers
ENJOY
Posted by Nitro Fan
On 2008-10-25 22:55:59, Jah wrote:
Hardware wise the X1 is the best polished piece of equipment I have seen, much better then the Nokia E90. Shows that SE is really a hardware company. Only if SE were more like Apple in designing fully integrated devices we could have so much choice at the high-end.
_________________
Join the 'dots' and see what happens
[ This Message was edited by: Jah on 2008-10-25 21:56 ]
The X1 is I believe made by HTC, That is why it is good Sony Ericsson build quality is generally fairly poor and they are not much of a software co either!
For all those debating the respective screen and colour qualities of the X1 it ALL comes down to just one thing, how good your eyes are!
Posted by masseur
@SE-Naz, hard to say about battery life after one day really, and also it spends alot of its time connected (and therefore charging) on USB while I transfer screen captures etc
I'm still trying to decide about the panels, are they gimmicky or are they useful? probably using this during the week while doing normal business activities might better answer that but most of the rest of the operating system is classic WM, so not much to say there.
its been well designed, thats for sure. While it may be HTC built, I do like the buttons and the optical joystick and the design around them to give the X (for xperia) look.
Having used the Diamond, I would probably have preferred this without the physical keyboard and with a better virtual keyboard and then I would be totally convinced, but for a first WM outing, SE (with HTC) have done a very nice job and the device feels very comfortable in the hand.
I'm finding sound could be louder as I have tried music videos that have been used on the TyTN II and Diamond are quieter on the X1.
No crashes or hangs so far, as expected with WM 6.1, and its good that SE have hidden the soft reset button under the battery cover as you really don't need it these days.
Panels can be laggy if you load a panel and expect to be able to switch to another panel immediately, but once initialised there is no lag. It seems the panels with more content have some startup time but then unless you're playing with the phone, you're not going to be changing from panel to panel every minute or two
all in all after 1 day I'm happy to accept this into my pocket
Posted by SE-Naz
Thank you for that... Hope for more information further down the week... as im looking to purchase this by end of the week...
Please advise how the battery goes over the week...
Cheers
ENJOY
Posted by afhum
HI. Is it true that the xperia doesn't have an equalizer on the music player from the media panel? no mega bass? :S
Posted by Mizzle
On 2008-10-26 17:03:45, afhum wrote:
HI. Is it true that the xperia doesn't have an equalizer on the music player from the media panel? no mega bass? :S
Yep, that's true. But I wouldn't worry about it, as it does have a nice bass by default.
Posted by masseur
On 2008-10-26 17:09:20, Mizzle wrote:
On 2008-10-26 17:03:45, afhum wrote:
HI. Is it true that the xperia doesn't have an equalizer on the music player from the media panel? no mega bass? :S
Yep, that's true. But I wouldn't worry about it, as it does have a nice bass by default.
but as always, its well worth investing in CorePlayer for this and many other benefits...
Posted by Vipera ammodytes
does x1 have GPS, or only aGPS?
Posted by masseur
it has GPS with aGPS