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bluetooth against bush |
Patrick-in-CA
Joined: Jul 21, 2004
Posts: 0
From: Sourhern Oregon, USA
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Quote:
| On 2004-07-22 08:07:55, axxxr wrote:
Patrick eh!..Why do i suspect that you are someone regular on esato and have just come here with a new nick to have a snipe at me...I'll tell you what i'll make it nice and simple for you since your a republican,,For a start i don't talk to republicans cos i think your all a bunch of stupid and ignorant idiots.and secondly your right!even if bush did do everything i'd like him i would still hate him and would like to see him put away somewhere we can get some help.Do u know why coz he's Too Stupid to be President.anyway. 
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Where to start ...
Well, let me first say thank you. I appreciate that you took the time to craft your well worded and eloquent response to my post - especially since you make it clear that you don't talk to us stupid and ignorant Republican idiots. (hey - don't take it personal - I'm not an English major and I'll make plenty of grammatical errors too)
Second, I must express a little disappointment. I was hoping that you'd practice what you preach:
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On 2004-06-10 19:42:11, axxxr wrote:
But jojo even though i agree with your point.The only way to get rid of ignorance is through knowledge and debate.
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On 2004-06-11 18:17:19, axxxr wrote:
FOR THE ATTENTION OF ANISH
... I DONT HAVE ANY RESPECT FOR PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO CANNOT HAVE A DECENT AND RESPECTFUL DEBATE. |
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I can't agree more with what Gelfen wrote in that same thread:
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| On 2004-06-11 01:21:10, gelfen wrote:
@axxxr: i'm happy to run with political debate because i don't take any of it personally, and i'm glad you don't either. everyone has a right to express an opinion and i respect that, but equally i have the right to do the same. ...
"I may not agree with a word you say, but I shall defend unto my death your right to say it."
-- Voltaire (1694-1778) |
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And last, as it is least relevant, my actual identity is of no real consequence to this discussion, is it? Honestly? My name is Patrick. I'm a Senior at a public university in Southern California and I'm a voting Republican. My real e-mail address is in my profile. That's all I can say really.
Now - If you'd like to leave your ego at the login screen and have an intelligent discussion - without the name calling - I'd be happy to oblige. If not, it's okay - life will go on. Despite your blatantly wrong position concerning President Bush  - you seem like an intelligent person, worthy of debate. Here's hoping ...
_________________
Thanks for taking the time to read my post.
[ This Message was edited by: Patrick-in-CA on 2004-07-22 19:24 ] |
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axxxr
Joined: Mar 21, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Londinium
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Patric i see that your a big fan of mine..collecting all my Quotes..I'm flattered!  I respect your opinion but im no mood for debate with you.Thanx for your very kind offer regardless.
Cheers!!
[addsig] |
Patrick-in-CA
Joined: Jul 21, 2004
Posts: 0
From: Sourhern Oregon, USA
PM |
No? Ah, this isn't what I expected. It seemed like most here wanted a good debate. Hey, you never know, I might not be able to defend my position! But someone should at least challenge me, yes?
It's okay - I'm polite. I don't use vulgarity. And really, one must admit, I'm probably a tad bit better worded than many who post here. Or are the liberals afraid to verbally spar with an educated neo-con?
Hey - will any of you defend your position with someone who actually disagrees with you? Even if Axxxr won't - don't worry - maybe we can learn something from each other. Or - If you're absolutely sure you're correct and I'm all wrong - then maybe you'll have the opportunity to change one US citizen's vote from Bush to something more to your liking. I promise I'll consider all points.
Won't someone help this ignorant stupid Republican?
Thanks for taking the time to read my post. |
axxxr
Joined: Mar 21, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Londinium
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Bluetooth Against Bush is a non-profit effort to build anti-Bush support by encouraging people to name their bluetooth devices with the title of the site and then set them on "discoverable" -- thereby allowing likeminded folks to link up during the various intersections of their day.
[addsig] |
Sammy_boy
Joined: Mar 31, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Staffordshire, United Kingdom
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Hi Patrick, welcome!
I'm intrugued to know why you support Bush, as every time me (and most people in countries around the world!) want to punch the TV every time that guy appears on it.
Not wanting to threadjack this thread, I suggest we continue to debate in the 'George W Bush's CV' thread - I don't think @axxxr will be pleased to have us debating in this bluetooth against bush thread!
I warn you though - I have a tendency to type before thinking sometimes, and don't have to time to be quite as well-researched as some do on this subject, but I will give it my best shot to change your mind! 
So, bring it on! 
"All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke
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axxxr
Joined: Mar 21, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Londinium
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Sammy its no prob mate you can continue with your debate here or in the bush c.v thread..both threads are bush related so it don't make a difference...Cheers!!
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Another so called land of the free story
Couple Arrested After Wearing Anti-Bush T-Shirts
CHARLESTON, W.Va. -- The Charleston City Council has apologized to two protesters jailed for wearing anti-Bush T-shirts to the president's July Fourth rally.
Nicole and Jeff Rank -- of Corpus Christi, Texas -- were removed from the event in restraints.
They were arrested after revealing T-shirts with President Bush's name crossed out on the front and the words "Love America, Hate Bush" on the back.Trespassing charges were dismissed last week.
Monday, the Charleston City Council adopted a resolution to apologize.
The resolution said the two did nothing more than "peaceably exercise their right of free speech."Trespassing charges were dropped after a judge determined that city ordinances do not apply to Statehouse grounds.
[addsig] |
Patrick-in-CA
Joined: Jul 21, 2004
Posts: 0
From: Sourhern Oregon, USA
PM |
Quote:
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On 2004-07-23 08:39:10, Sammy_boy wrote:
Hi Patrick, welcome!
I'm intrugued to know why you support Bush, as every time me (and most people in countries around the world!) want to punch the TV every time that guy appears on it. |
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Hello Sammy! I deal with things best one at a time so forgive me as I break each item down into digestible parts.
First off I'd like to ask why you want to punch the TV? Don't you think that's a bit of irrational behavior? If not - I'm curious to know why. Also - are you sure that "most people in countries around the world" react the same way you do? If so, how did you learn that fact?
Why do I support Bush? Even as a Republican, I have to admit, it isn't as much support for Bush as it is my support of free-market capitalism and dislike of socialism. As mentioned earlier - I have Libertarian tendencies.
Reasons I'm happy with Bush:
- He is a Republican
- He is in favor of reduced taxes
- He may not be liked, but if he says he will do something, people believe him
Reasons I'm unhappy with Bush:
- He presides over the largest US Federal deficit and doesn't show signs of curbing spending
- He has voiced support for amending the US Constitution in order to win a cultural issue
- He hasn't, in my opinion, effectively communicated the consequences of loosing the "War on Terror"
Please note - these lists are not intended to be exhaustive in any way
Quote:
| I warn you though - I have a tendency to type before thinking sometimes, and don't have to time to be quite as well-researched as some do on this subject, but I will give it my best shot to change your mind!
So, bring it on! |
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When people of deep religious convictions approach me and attempt to convert me to their faith - I do not resent them. I just look at it from this perspective: If they truly believe what they say they believe then it is perfectly natural and reasonable that they should be out trying to spread the "truth". To do less (not try to tell others) would be a bit selfish, don't you think? So that is why I engage people in conversation. We are all here proselytizing our view. However, Sammy, I will promise you one thing. Unlike the many who seem to only shout their mantra and refuse to even listen to, much less consider, a differing opinion -- I will take your opinion and either disagree (with reasons), agree (with reasons), or tell you I need to learn more about it. I believe we both will grow and learn from this exchange.
_________________
Thanks for taking the time to read my post.
[ This Message was edited by: Patrick-in-CA on 2004-07-23 15:19 ] |
Patrick-in-CA
Joined: Jul 21, 2004
Posts: 0
From: Sourhern Oregon, USA
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Appalling - Unforgivable - Disgusting
I'm glad the people in charge made things right and everything turned out well in the end.
By the way: As a US citizen - I still believe I live in the land of the free. Exactly how does this story show otherwise Axxxr? And what does it have to do with Bush specifically?
_________________
Thanks for taking the time to read my post.
[ This Message was edited by: Patrick-in-CA on 2004-07-23 15:25 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Patrick-in-CA on 2004-07-23 15:26 ] |
Liam
Joined: Aug 21, 2002
Posts: 37
PM |
@Patrick Do you not spot a connection with the cutting taxes and a large deficit?
And what are your views on Americas continued support for Israel despite them continually ignoring the UN? |
Patrick-in-CA
Joined: Jul 21, 2004
Posts: 0
From: Sourhern Oregon, USA
PM |
Quote:
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On 2004-07-23 08:27:14, axxxr wrote:
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Actually - This is the subject that lead me to this thread and forum. I heard about this and wanted to learn more. Isn't it great? I think this is a wonderful idea. People using technology to express their political opinions and find other like minded people. Ingenious. I love the United States. Besides most European countries - where else is there so open a dialog about contentious political issues allowed without the routine outbreak of bloodshed and government oppression?
Thanks for taking the time to read my post. |
Liam
Joined: Aug 21, 2002
Posts: 37
PM |
Does anyone here remember the story of a small nation called vietnam. Where some of its citizens tried to have a debate about contentious issues such as whether or not to be communists. Strange how when the government tried to oppress them another country joined in.
No prizes for guessing which! |
Patrick-in-CA
Joined: Jul 21, 2004
Posts: 0
From: Sourhern Oregon, USA
PM |
Quote:
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On 2004-07-23 16:27:20, Liam wrote:
@Patrick Do you not spot a connection with the cutting taxes and a large deficit?
And what are your views on Americas continued support for Israel despite them continually ignoring the UN?
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Excellent questions Liam.
Fist I can see a correlation between cutting taxes and a large deficit - however when faced with a large deficit there are several ways to respond. I happen to favor the lower taxes and lower spending approach. I feel the lower taxes help to spur the economy (private and business sectors). I feel reduced spending helps to invigorate the private economic sector that doesn't have to deal with as much governmental interference and/or competition as well as limits what government can do (like wage war on little countries all over the world).
About Israel and the U.N. ... this one is much more complicated than simple economic principles. Diplomacy isn't my strong point - however I feel that the opinion of the world community is important but not the end-all-be-all to how countries should or can act. I'm not denying that Israel has enraged the UN and defied many UN resolutions in the past. I doubt it will follow all future UN guidance. The fact is, when you have the Big Gorilla (read USA) as your friend - you can get away with not having to play ball by your enemies rules. And I have to point out that some of the resolutions that have been passed by the UN regarding Israel are seriously lopsided. I happen to be of the opinion that the UN isn't the repository of all truth and purity. (I'm not sure what governing body is) ... That said, it is my opinion that nations should and will continue to operate in their best interests - regardless of the UN. There is plenty of room for clarification and further discussion on this issue. I'd be happy to learn more - be exposed to more information - and debate more.
Thanks for taking the time to read my post. |
Patrick-in-CA
Joined: Jul 21, 2004
Posts: 0
From: Sourhern Oregon, USA
PM |
Quote:
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On 2004-07-23 16:51:17, Liam wrote:
Does anyone here remember the story of a small nation called vietnam. Where some of its citizens tried to have a debate about contentious issues such as whether or not to be communists. Strange how when the government tried to oppress them another country joined in.
No prizes for guessing which!
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Oooo Oooo ... I know....
FRANCE
Thanks for taking the time to read my post. |
Liam
Joined: Aug 21, 2002
Posts: 37
PM |
Surely it would be in a countries best interest to go round the world kidnapping people and then using them as slave labour, after all that way goods would be a lot cheaper. Maybe they should go round invading resurce rich areas. Or maybe they should continually ignore enviromental issues or agreements (Kyoto - anyone?).
We all now that this is not how countries should act in the world. There are instances where action should not be taken in your own best interests but as a review of the whole. That way attrocities could be avoided.
I'm not trying to blame the US for everything, don't get me wrong i'm disgusted at the current state of affairs in the International Whaleing Convention (or whatever you call it). The main problem I have with the US is its lack of consistency. Where was the US in Rwanda or why arent they sending troops to the Darfur region of Sudan?
I believe if a country is going to interfer in the governance of others then it should do all the time or none of the time. Not just when it is in its own best interests. |
Sammy_boy
Joined: Mar 31, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Staffordshire, United Kingdom
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Hi Patrick - ta for the detailed reply!
I'm not entirely convinced about the cutting taxes thing - although I don't like paying tax (who does!!) I think it's necessary to have a certain level of taxation to ensure that public services are run OK, or that these tax cuts aren't either replaced by stealth taxes (like many think is happening in the UK), or simply cutting back expenditure on somthing like defence/armed forces (like what is happening here!)
Bush also seems to have a lot of backers in the oil industry - is this true? I wouldn't be at all surprised, as the US isn't all that willing to join up to the Kyoto agreement - as it would mean these oil companies having to spend money on cleaning up their emissions.
The comment on many people/countries being against Bush has come from reading posts from various people on this forum, and from what I've read/seen in the media too.
And, as @Liam says, could there be a link between these tax cuts and a huge defecit?
My wages have taken a drop whilst I train to be a nurse, and sadly my spending hasn't really - so I have a bit of a defecit in my personal accounts! Similar situation I guess, just a different economy of scale.
what's the media like over there? The impression I get (and I'm probably wrong!!) is that most of it is biased either one way or the other - left or right, but with there being no real 'impartial' TV or radio stations like the BBC (supposedly) is.
"All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke
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Posted: 2004-07-22 20:08
