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The New 3G iPhone ! Is this the begining of the end for the SE P AND X series? |
anonymuser
Joined: Dec 17, 2002
Posts: > 500
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On 2008-12-09 09:09:33, doministry wrote:
People who consciously use their devices and their features are 5% not more.
My god - it was 10% yesterday, 5% of those users must have been hypnotized overnight. Those Apple bastards!
And I also stated - the above facts does not imply the device is bad itself. It's just overhyped.
It's a good job you're here to impart these "facts" 
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doministry
Joined: Apr 13, 2007
Posts: > 500
From: PL
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Problems with emotions, heh...
Apple thing |
AD
Joined: Aug 25, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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Yep, the whole Apple vs Everything Else debate is one set to run forever
I personally don't like the way that Apple seem to never quite relinquish ownership of their devices even after the customer has paid for them, but hey I guess this suits most of their devotees by keeping life simple (Itunes, Appstore etc.).
The controversey must have given Apple a hell of a lot of free advertising over the years, with all their accolites singiing their praises 
I do find it interesting that what seems to harm the image of any manufacturer is a level of objectivity - I guess that's why they spend so much on marketing...
OnT - I hope that SE "learn the lessons" from the last couple of years and continue with the P phones by taking them back to their roots, by truly analizing what made the P800 - P910 so good, after all what with forums such as this, there is no lack of customer feedback. With that, may I start a campaign for the return of the 5-way jog dial?
[ This Message was edited by: AD on 2008-12-09 10:15 ] |
doministry
Joined: Apr 13, 2007
Posts: > 500
From: PL
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I'm REALLY afraid that the fashion for all-touch screen devices will make more difficult life to those qwerty and keys equipped smartphones.
I really hope I'll still be able to buy those hardware equipped devices in the future, since the whole developement goes into screen.
Just see how the hardware controls are dumped in favour to screen.
I mean - a great screen is a fabulous thing, but after Pseries is gone, there's simply no one handed qwerty device anymore. One-handed in a full sense, since P1i/M600 is one handed only to some extent.
Xperia looks the most convinient in this regard. |
anonymuser
Joined: Dec 17, 2002
Posts: > 500
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@ Dogmann - you know Marc, I think what makes you such a great poster is your ability to take the person out of an argument, and really target the issues at hand. I know you'd never make something like this personal - you're not interested in attacking other posters on a personal level, or trying to settle old scores, just a reasoned argument on the topic at hand - and that's why we all respect you so very much. You really are a great, big, debater.
Now, I've been here since 2002 - that's six years (or 10% to you, doministry). In that time, many things have changed, many new phones and new technologies have come and gone, and yes - like any rational human being - my own thinking on various subjects has changed, evolved, and naturally been informed by personal experience. So look back through this forum and you'll find many thousands of posts from me over the years, many of which are outdated and/or just plain wrong now. But with hand on heart, I stand by each and every one of them, because each and every one of them was a true account of what I thought and what I knew at the time. So go ahead, quote anything, quote everything, I stand by it all without reservation. I don't recognise the thing about 16m colours taking too much battery life, but by all means quote it for me.
Is it surprising that my purchasing decisions broadly reflect my own thoughts on the best phone/OS at any one time? Perhaps to you.
Look back at the origins of this particular thread - since the start, in June, when the iPhone 3G was announced (and I was still locked into my Tytn II for another 4-5 months) I was warning that it was going to change things. It did.
[ This Message was edited by: Boinng on 2008-12-09 11:35 ] |
SloopJohnB
Joined: Oct 28, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: the blue planet
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Dogmann,
What has esato turned into? A stalking place? I don't know what personal issues you might have with Boinng but honestly, who cares about what he said months ago? Not that've read anything too alarming from you've posted though, he seems a reasonable guy to me. Of course he thinks his current device it's the best so far, that's why he spent money on it in the first place. If he felt differently he might as well stayed with what he used to have, but that wasn't the case, so what's the big deal?? Please let's not turn esato into a stalking place or a freak show of digging up past stuff just to throw on people's faces, it's beginning to look like a marriage fight already.
About the 'only 5%' 'real' iPhone users. Nowadays 5% of the apple users correspond to something like 700.000 users. If you consider app store's current number of over 300.000.000 downloads that's something like 428 downloads per user? Do you guys REALLY thing this is correct? The iPhone can only hold like 130 third party apps at the same time (considering it's FULL), are you guys really going with the 5 or even 10% number? Remember that many apps aren't free so downloading hundreds of apps must cost a shitload of money too LOL |
AD
Joined: Aug 25, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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OOps, sorry didn't mean to intrude on a domestic argument - how long have you been maried now anyway?
***JOKE***
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gtr83
Joined: Sep 27, 2008
Posts: > 500
From: Indonesia
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Repeating my and Boingg's self here, no matter how great the iPhone is (which I still think is not that true of a statement), it won't be a phone for everyone. There will always be people who go for WM - alas, even UIQ.
Nokia 3520 > 6600 > W800i > W890i > C702 > C905 > BB 9500 > Samsung INNOV8 |
arvinlad
Joined: Mar 26, 2005
Posts: 447
From: A P1iW [8Gb] in Lancs UK ;-)
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On 2008-12-09 11:19:56, Dogmann wrote:
@Boinng
Well that was nothing more than a small example of what i came across and if i could be bothered to go through the P1 v TyTN thread I'm certain i could find lots more that all prove exactly the same thing.
Seeing as you having such a hard time understanding the point maybe i should be kind enough to put it a way that even you can't fail to understand then.
Basically i have realised something about you which is you appear to need to be part of the in crowd and belong. Once you latch on to what you think that is at the time you support it with all the arguments you can find and use all the opinions of others you can find to.
.. Which if it wasn't quite so funny would be really sad.
Marc
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-12-09 10:20 ]
you're quite a sad person Marc !!! 
www.answersingenesis.org , www.expelledthemovie.com/home.php |
arvinlad
Joined: Mar 26, 2005
Posts: 447
From: A P1iW [8Gb] in Lancs UK ;-)
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On 2008-12-09 11:05:42, AD wrote:
... With that, may I start a campaign for the return of the 5-way jog dial?
[ This Message was edited by: AD on 2008-12-09 10:15 ]
LOL I'll vote for you then! 
www.answersingenesis.org , www.expelledthemovie.com/home.php |
myth®
Joined: Oct 08, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: Istanbul
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@Boinng
Even if it is not the material of the screen, we all know that its size along with the flashy UI are and have always been two of the top selling points of the iphone.
The resolution of the screen is nothing to shout about but, yeah, overall nice to look at.
As for the music quality through headphones, I’m not sure if “it’s an iPod” stands in your opinion for superb quality, but I wasn’t impressed at all.
And the sound through the speaker was definitely the worst I’ve ever heard on a mobile device.
The soft keyboard might be ok for short texts (some haptic feedback would be nice), but you might agree that it’ll never replace a hardware keyboard, especially for long texts.
And predictive text input exists on almost any other phone since ages.
Glad it makes iphone user’s still happy & feel special
but don't worry, I could go on...
But I will if you don't
Pls also add your comments for the following:
• Bluetooth profiles
• Cut/copy/paste
• Camera specs & picture quality
• Video recording
• GPS specs
• Non-replaceable battery
• MMS
• Multitasking with 3rd party apps
* Disk access to internal storage via PC
• No memory expansion slot
HTC HD2 [16 GB] + SE HBH-DS980 |
anonymuser
Joined: Dec 17, 2002
Posts: > 500
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On 2008-12-09 23:05:05, myth® wrote:
@Boinng
Even if it is not the material of the screen, we all know that its size along with the flashy UI are and have always been two of the top selling points of the iphone.
The resolution of the screen is nothing to shout about but, yeah, overall nice to look at.
The material makes a big difference though - it's one of those things you don't get just by looking at the specs or pictures, actually using the screen is a very different - and I would say very better experience than you get from any resistive screen. And that's before you actually look at the quality and brightness of the screen image itself, which is excellent.
As for the music quality through headphones, I’m not sure if “it’s an iPod” stands in your opinion for superb quality,
It stands for simplicity more than anything - the sound quality is excellent from where I'm sitting but of course that's subjective, and any true audiophile would tell us we were both idiots for even debating the relative audio qualities of such tuppeny gadgets. Where the iPhone undoubtedly scores is in having a typically useable iPod interface, itunes on the PC to keep it all in order, and another of those end user experiences that just works. Take a look at the windows media player in WM6.1 and/or the flaky media panel on the X1 for an idea of how not to do it.
but I wasn’t impressed at all.
That shocks me to the core!
And the sound through the speaker was definitely the worst I’ve ever heard on a mobile device.
It's worse than some Nokias I've heard, and it's a lot better than most of the other phones I've had personally (the HTC's was atrocious). You can actually listen to music quite bearably if you want to, and that's good enough for me - if I want great quality sound without the headphones I just plug it into a stereo.
The soft keyboard might be ok for short texts (some haptic feedback would be nice), but you might agree that it’ll never replace a hardware keyboard, especially for long texts.
Why would I agree with that, when for me it *has* replaced a hardware keyboard completely? If it wasn't good enough to do that, I'd have returned the phone weeks ago, as text is important to me. This might surprise you but most of the posts i've been making here (including this one) are on the iPhone. It's a damn good keyboard, better than the hardware keyboard on my tytn II - by which I mean faster and a damn sight more accurate most of the time.
And predictive text input exists on almost any other phone since ages.
And like any other software device, it's implemetation and design varies in quality. The iphone's is the best, most intelligent implementation I've ever seen.
Just a reminder - I've seen other input systems. I can remember multi-tap, ive done my time with T9, I scribbled in JOT on the P800 for a year and quite enjoyed it, laughed at the qwerty attempt on the P910, actually loved the qwerty on the M600, and have done the lot in WM to boot - big qwerty, handwriting, various soft keypads. And the iPhone is damn good. Every single method of text entry on a phone is a compromise, but the iPhones is as good as any.
Pls also add your comments for the following:
Okay.
• Bluetooth profiles - don't have them, never used them.
• Cut/copy/paste - would be great, but if I needed them that much I would never have bought an iPhone, would I? Neither would those x million other people.
• Camera specs & picture quality - it takes tolerable snapshots, not good enough to hang on the wall, but tolerable nonetheless. My Tytn II had "3.2mp with autofocus", and in fairness to it, it really did take tolerable snapshots. Not good enough to hang on the wall, but tolerable nonetheless.
• Video recording - available when you jailbreak, apparently. If it was important to me, i'd have bought another phone
• GPS specs - very good, far faster than the Tytn II ever was (even before the 6.1 update that really messed it up)
* Non-replaceable battery - top scores here, it definitely has one.
• MMS - available with jailbreak, or soon in the appstore according to recent rumour.
• Multitasking with 3rd party apps - works fine, my music still plays, my email still gets checked, and I can still reciece calls and texts while using third party apps. Oh, wait, you mean can I leave something running in the background to suck the battery dry? Yep, if I jailbreak.
* Disk access to internal storage via PC - through numerous (and in some cases free) apps in the appstore, sure. Usual method is through wifi.
• No memory expansion slot - again, it excels in that department. Well spotted!
[ This Message was edited by: Boinng on 2008-12-09 23:12 ] |
AD
Joined: Aug 25, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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May I interject here, and state, to expand on my previous point, that as with all slick, shiny toys, the point is how they make you feel when using them. If one feels like the next James Bond, then it's easy to forgive any shortcommings the spec may have, where as you might have the most powerful device known to man in your hand, but if the opperation of such is clunky, command line-like, and alltogether boring to your perception, then you're bound to have a gennerally miserable time with it. This is of course unless you have what is commonly refered to as a geeky nature (guilty) that gets off on such things.
To me, the iphone was was targetted, as with most Apple products, at a demographic that sees geekyness as decidedly uncool, this being the majority of people in the world. The kind of people who can't be bothered with the true technicalities of life, and hence employ nerds to do that kind of thing for them, a flaw that I and many others have profitted from greatly in life
The converse was true for particularly the UIQ2 devices, since which I feel developments have gone somewhat astray, as SE seem to be attempting to target a similar demographic to Apple. I say they should give up on this track and get back to attracting the nerdy dollar/pound/ruble/whatever, that is currently owned by a somewhat disenfranchised market. Sowhat if it's a minority of the population, as it also happens to be a minority that would consider remortgaging their houses if the right gadget came along
Come On SE! Build a top spec, no expense spared, truly high end device, and I assure you - People WILL Buy It! You've just got to start thinking out of the glossy box. Oh, and BTW, can it have a 5-way jog dial - pretty please?
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myth®
Joined: Oct 08, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: Istanbul
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On 2008-12-10 00:06:45, Boinng wrote:
It stands for simplicity more than anything - the sound quality is excellent from where I'm sitting but of course that's subjective, and any true audiophile would tell us we were both idiots for even debating the relative audio qualities of such tuppeny gadgets. Where the iPhone undoubtedly scores is in having a typically useable iPod interface, itunes on the PC to keep it all in order, and another of those end user experiences that just works. Take a look at the windows media player in WM6.1 and/or the flaky media panel on the X1 for an idea of how not to do it.
So it’s simplicity that counts, not quality..
In fact, looking at the iphone (no matter which gen) and using it for a while one can easily understand that this is the main philosophy behind it (except for the build quality).
Why would I agree with that, when for me it *has* replaced a hardware keyboard completely? If it wasn't good enough to do that, I'd have returned the phone weeks ago, as text is important to me. This might surprise you but most of the posts i've been making here (including this one) are on the iPhone. It's a damn good keyboard, better than the hardware keyboard on my tytn II - by which I mean faster and a damn sight more accurate most of the time.
No keys, no feedback, yet faster and more accurate…
Having used the iphone [2G] myself, all I can say is:
“What are you talking about ?”
• Bluetooth profiles - don't have them, never used them.
An interesting and ‘reasonable’ statement from a (power ?) user late 2008
• Cut/copy/paste - would be great, but if I needed them that much I would never have bought an iPhone, would I? Neither would those x million other people.
Wait..
Aren’t we talking about a ‘smartphone’ ?
Or is that only the illusion of x million deluded people ?
• Camera specs & picture quality - it takes tolerable snapshots, not good enough to hang on the wall, but tolerable nonetheless. My Tytn II had "3.2mp with autofocus", and in fairness to it, it really did take tolerable snapshots. Not good enough to hang on the wall, but tolerable nonetheless.
Crap, in other words..
• Video recording - available when you jailbreak, apparently. If it was important to me, i'd have bought another phone
Yeah, sure, you would..
• GPS specs - very good, far faster than the Tytn II ever was (even before the 6.1 update that really messed it up)
You seem to be the first one to claim such a thing
So which navigation apps do you use ?
How’s your turn-by-turn experience ?
* Non-replaceable battery - top scores here
Oh really ? How ? Via screwdriver ? Any additional tools required ?
Can it be safely done by the user ? How long does it take and what happens after swapping your battery for, say, 40-50 times ?
• MMS - available with jailbreak, or soon in the appstore according to recent rumour.
Oups.. Still rumour ? That’s sad…
• Multitasking with 3rd party apps - works fine, my music still plays, my email still gets checked, and I can still reciece calls and texts while using third party apps. Oh, wait, you mean can I leave something running in the background to suck the battery dry? Yep, if I jailbreak.
What I meant is multitasking ‘between’ 3rd party apps, not the built in music player, mail or phone application.
* Disk access to internal storage via PC - through numerous (and in some cases free) apps in the appstore, sure. Usual method is through wifi.
So you need a 3rd party app even for that ? Interesting…
It seems as if there isn’t much the iphone can do (if at all) right out of the box..
• No memory expansion slot - again, it excels in that department. Well spotted!
Where is it ? I hope you are not referring to the internal storage, as the benefits of having a memory expansion slot is not only to extend the storage space by another 8 or 16 (or soon 32) gigs, but also to have exchangeable storage cards, so that you can store and deal with several 8, 16 (or 32) gigs of media.
[ This Message was edited by: myth® on 2008-12-10 14:46 ] |
arvinlad
Joined: Mar 26, 2005
Posts: 447
From: A P1iW [8Gb] in Lancs UK ;-)
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On 2008-12-10 00:32:28, Dogmann wrote:
@arvinlad,
Actually your wrong as it happens since my Operation and my greatly reduced pain I'm very happy right now.
But obviously you must be very sad as you feel the need to copy an entire post to then post all of 6 words of rubbish get a life.
Marc
_________________
Blackberry Bold, V4.6.0.201, 8GB SDHC, Pin2553F455
Honoured to have Won Best Debater for the 2nd Year
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-12-09 23:37 ]
LOL I didn't in fact quote the whole post of drivel and amateur psychology just enough to make a point that you were as usual being very personal about a well respected poster on this board...
So just chill dude 
I'm glad your operation helped
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Posted: 2008-12-09 09:49
