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The New 3G iPhone ! Is this the begining of the end for the SE P AND X series? |
Nipsen
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
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Here's a good one from eomer at m-r (where I can't post due to "Being too much of a clever dick and ignoring polite instructions.")
there would be high end UIQ phones only if UIQ was capable of supporting them. Believe me, in both Motorola and SEMC projects, UIQ has been real bottleneck.
Now that's a riot. The definitive insider says SE and Moto can't use UIQ, and that UIQ is the bottleneck in their projects. I knew UIQ had gotten on bad terms with SE and Moto, but good god, this is just too good. They could just as well have said they're really bad programmers and wouldn't know how to do business in the smartphone segment if their jobs depended on it.
..I hope UIQ manages to find another buyer, though, and that SE won't just sit on their shares and not using UIQ - like they have with UIQv3.3 so far.
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[ This Message was edited by: Nipsen on 2008-06-18 19:53 ] | |
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koto
Joined: Sep 18, 2006
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Don't know about iphone 3G but new samsung i900 omnia looks like a perfect all in one smartphone, almost like a dream. |
pnf1973
Joined: Oct 04, 2007
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On 2008-06-18 20:52:11, Nipsen wrote:
Here's a good one from eomer at m-r (where I can't post due to "Being too much of a clever dick and ignoring polite instructions.")
there would be high end UIQ phones only if UIQ was capable of supporting them. Believe me, in both Motorola and SEMC projects, UIQ has been real bottleneck.
Now that's a riot. The definitive insider says SE and Moto can't use UIQ, and that UIQ is the bottleneck in their projects. I knew UIQ had gotten on bad terms with SE and Moto, but good god, this is just too good. They could just as well have said they're really bad programmers and wouldn't know how to do business in the smartphone segment if their jobs depended on it.
..I hope UIQ manages to find another buyer, though, and that SE won't just sit on their shares and not using UIQ - like they have with UIQv3.3 so far.
LOL! Now, i'd never believe it nipsen, kicked off a forum? 
As i said earlier, UIQ has never had the resources, I'll bet the biggest problem that se and moto have is with a lack of documentation and API support. Well its a simple choice for them really, isn't it? They have to resolve this quickly, s60 touch and android could easly kill UIQ completely. |
Nipsen
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
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Yeah, you'd be suprised how often that happens. 
But.. is UIQ actually worse documented than other frameworks? Or more fractured? Compared to for example the various s60 versions that tend to have particular specialised methods that only go on one or two phones? Or that have apis with multiple and possibly conflicting use on different versions?
And remember that it's perfectly possible to deploy apps on an UIQ phone that don't use UIQ elements at all. And I'm not making it up when I'm saying that the typical SEMC app is made of one document class and a resource definition, and otherwise some hoary symbian code. The overlay on the g- series, for example, is probably not UIQ dependent code at all, apart from lookups (which are wrappers for symbian classes). Same goes for the walkman app. So how is the horribleness of UIQ the cause of bad programming logic with symbian code?
Take the mail- app, for example. One reason why it runs so slowly, is that it actually stores the inbox and messages in separate files on the disk. Now who would do something like that on flash- ram? It's beyond the pale. Or take the way half the working ram is always full of application, while every single program uses disk- access (slow) at many, many points during execution.
Or take the picture- viewer on the g900 - it lags between every picture, even though it can actually scroll the picture in full speed. This is because they only preload one image (to save the precious 40 Mb free ram), instead of allowing for some flexible prediction that waits either until the user looks at a pic, or until the buffer runs out.
Then we have the clever standby screen that hangs once in a while, or the lack of desktop animations. Or the lock- screens, etc - that are the simplest and most standard views you can get out of the UIQ sdk.
Or take Opera 8.65 - that never grows beyond 5mb of ram, and actively writes to the physical drive before the page is rendered, even when there is ram free.
Or the mechanical solutions to every single application SE has put on the phone? Such as the wlan app, that happens to be - that's right - one document and a resource definition, that happens to reference invalid pointers several times during code- execution, at which point the use of a connection api that was not made by UIQ tech can fail and require a reboot. SE even knows about the hangs, and have been quietly reminded of them for years, on every version of their UIQ phones. That, as we know, haven't changed much since the m600.
Or what about the inexplicable problem with using the widget panels and Opera 9.5 on their phones. Which wouldn't be much of a problem if it wasn't for the fact that almost every single program of SE's is programmed with absolute paths and device- dependent key- setups and low level api code fused into the programs. The same with specifically set sizes on ram- use and temp- files in the programs.
None of that is a UIQ problem, apart from perhaps that it isn't developed to a complete UI from the start, so SE doesn't have to do anything with it before pushing it on the phones.
..In any case. I'm sure going to have a good laugh when SE comes with their WM devices.. with a rom fresh off the emulator, that can hang in much quicker speeds. Oh, yeah, "UIQ is the bottleneck".
Really, is there anything that isn't everyone else's fault at SE? Stupid customers, stupid employees, stupid sales managers, stupid ceos, all need to be fired - engineers that don't have a good workplace environment, devices for testing that never complete, and devices that do and still are full of bugs, which never are fixed or acknowledged by SE because they really love to help with the more important things, like how to order wallpapers via gprs. Not to mention all the failed marketing campaigns, and appeals to the mobile industry for a closer partnership with SE. And how can we forget the "Xperience" and the "SE look" - a brilliant idea that makes SE invest in a short term UI framework development of their own - while their api implementations further down should be their main concern? Just as maintaining portability from device to device is something they just don't understand the meaning of.
No - all unfortunate problems that really is just circumstances beyond SE's control. That would all solve themselves if everyone else just understood how much of a terrific company they really are, deep down. And grasped just how great all their decisions and rehashed designs are, and how extremely applicable those decisions are for the smartphone market as well? If you just gave them a chance, and loved the grey WM device - because SE says it looks "business- like", and now they're going to get a huge presence in the HUGE WM market, compared to the TINY, TINY symbian market?
Seriously, give me a break.
The p1 Whiki - report your bugs, and add feature requests here. "Brothers and Sisters, believe! Believe in the salvation of Demand Paging, 'eah!" |
Dogmann
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
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@Nipsen
It really isn't often that you and i agree on anything and all this time i had you down as an SE fan.
But your last post really sums up the situation oh so well and explains the frustration of so many end users that can see what is wrong yet SE just can't.
Personally I've given up on waiting for SE to deliver some thing i want and will just watch to see if they can eventually surprise me with a great device. But I'm not expecting it anytime soon that's for sure, unlike of course the rumors of the next all conquering device coming soon.
Marc
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-06-19 13:27 ] |
Nipsen
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
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Yeah, yeah. You say that every time.
See, I don't want SE to deliver a "device", just as little as I want Microsoft to deliver me a "computer". If I did, then I'd buy a cheaper, smaller phone with a better battery life - or an iPhone, or even a nokia. What I want is for SE to deliver on API implementations only they can deliver on, fix the programs they insist on fusing into the phone rom - and do the /tiny, tiny, miniscule/ things they could've done on the background services that don't work. (...Seriously, how many hundred people pushed independently before SE reacted and fixed the bug with how the programs fell off the menus, after using the usb cable or pulling out the mem- card? Is it still there on the p990?).
So - what do they do instead? They spend time on creating new extra programs with the "SE look"? And then complain about slow UIQ. Not only that - buggy and slow WM6.1 as well - specially on their custom- made homescreen - something they suddenly find out when they have to postpone the launch of the phone? Yeah, it's got to be the UI - the programming under it just doesn't have anything to do with speed - SE knows, because they are really fricking good at what they do..
It's silly.
The p1 Whiki - report your bugs, and add feature requests here. "Brothers and Sisters, believe! Believe in the salvation of Demand Paging, 'eah!" |
pnf1973
Joined: Oct 04, 2007
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Well, it just goes go show what i mean. Psion were good at this stuff, after all they laid the foundations for symbian and smartphones years before anyone even thought how good it would be to pick your email up on the move.
As you say, most of the se apps are simple wrappers for uiq and symbian functionality - which is good in my book, it shows the inherent strength of the uiq api. But, they do like to foul it all up with bad programming, don't they?
Maybe all they really need then is some good management and programming skills?
*pnf starts the "nipsen for cheif programming nerd at uiq & semc" campaign
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strizlow800
Joined: Aug 23, 2006
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From: Macedonia, Skopje
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The New 3G iPhone ! Is this the begining of the end for the SE P AND X series?
Well in my opinion the iphone 3g can NEVER defeat the  P and X series... ESPECIALLY NOT THE P ones... Which such long tradition and experience... When we are talking about the X series, tough only the X1 xperia is available til now, it's windows mobile operating system makes it unbeatable and keeping it 1000000 light years above the iphone...
So in my opinion Iphone 3g sucks 
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G. I.
Joined: Jul 21, 2007
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The iPhone is for brainwashed Mactards and gullible fashion lemmings. Fortunately for Apple the tech media and blogosphere (especially in the US) are full of Jehovah's Witnesses-like Maczealots who can overhype any crippled Apple crap to epic proportions. |
isadouglas
Joined: Apr 18, 2003
Posts: 31
From: Boca Raton
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Well after a year to the date Im bored with my HTCTYTNll , I downloaded tons of aplications that I had to unisnstall because made the phone do slow.
It froze at least once a week and when I added 8 g of storage it really slowed down. T mobile is annoying me in Florida too...so Im giving my Htc tytn ll to my husband and Im getting.....the Iphone!!!!! is fun is simple is white is new (to me) !!! switching next week to att rollover minutes. Lets see how long it keeps me exited...But I am not impressed with windows 6.1 ... |
anonymuser
Joined: Dec 17, 2002
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Just had some fun re-reading this thread...
Well for me personally the iPhone certainly swayed me, not that I had any I interest in the X1 or potential future P series anyway, coming from a Tytn II also.
It's a fantastic device as anyone who's use one knows, and yes it suits my business needs just fine with great email support and an increasing number of useful apps. No Quickoffice yet (they're releasing a full office suite in the new year) but I had a great Spreadsheet app already that does everything I need, and cost me just pence in the App store. There are more than 10,000 apps in that store now, and I've got some brilliant stuff on my phone, both in terms of productivity, utilities, and games - there's no doubt it's the "funnest" phone out there, bar none.
Yes there are missing features still, but taking the experience as a whole, I miss nothing from my UIQ or WM phones of the past. I know I would miss the hell out of the iPhone if I had to go back.
P series? It is of course dead, at least as we remember it, since the death of UIQ - and indeed the last example, the P5, was cancelled in the iPhone's wake. As for the X1, after all the delays, it's hardly the bright new start that anyone hoped for - and the iPhone is now officially outselling the whole Windows Mobile lineup. So this thread kind of had a point after all, eh?
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doministry
Joined: Apr 13, 2007
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On 2008-12-07 12:22:33, Boinng wrote:
Just had some fun re-reading this thread...
Well for me personally the iPhone certainly swayed me, not that I had any I interest in the X1 or potential future P series anyway, coming from a Tytn II also.
It's a fantastic device as anyone who's use one knows, and yes it suits my business needs just fine with great email support and an increasing number of useful apps. No Quickoffice yet (they're releasing a full office suite in the new year) but I had a great Spreadsheet app already that does everything I need, and cost me just pence in the App store. There are more than 10,000 apps in that store now, and I've got some brilliant stuff on my phone, both in terms of productivity, utilities, and games - there's no doubt it's the "funnest" phone out there, bar none.
Yes there are missing features still, but taking the experience as a whole, I miss nothing from my UIQ or WM phones of the past. I know I would miss the hell out of the iPhone if I had to go back.
P series? It is of course dead, at least as we remember it, since the death of UIQ - and indeed the last example, the P5, was cancelled in the iPhone's wake. As for the X1, after all the delays, it's hardly the bright new start that anyone hoped for - and the iPhone is now officially outselling the whole Windows Mobile lineup. So this thread kind of had a point after all, eh?
Not really, I disagree. The quantity is NOT all (it would be problem of course if they'd sell too little of it....) and is not decisive.
This rule simply does not apply and the best example is given in the computer world where the situation is absolutely opposite - WM outsells Mac computers big time, but does that mean Apple comes to an eclipse?? No!
And bear in mind that there's simply no market which would adopt too many "revolutions". As Communicator did, as P800 maybe and now iPhone.
But it doesn't make other soulutions "bad" or even worse. Marketing does not mean quality.... Look, Android won't be such an revolution even if it's better in some cases.
X1 cannot be such an superselling hit just because it's too complicated, too "profi". Really, iPhone is made for "idiots", I mean people who never ever used touchscreen.
And believe me, if Apple did iPhone with qwerty it would kill sales. Too much complicated!
a w a r e |
isadouglas
Joined: Apr 18, 2003
Posts: 31
From: Boca Raton
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And believe me, if Apple did iPhone with qwerty it would kill sales. Too much complicated!
[/quote]
Exactly ! that is the beauty of the iphone..its simple not complicated like the windows mobile phone...I started with Ipaq PDA (with a $500.00 microdrive for 1G .lol) , SE p800 still working..then p900, p910..
went back to Pocket pc with tytn 2. Honestly I liked symbian better but SE teases me with phones than never come when they promise..and then is too late. I want simple, clean uncomplicated and that does not mean I am and Idiot....Right?
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doministry
Joined: Apr 13, 2007
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On 2008-12-08 00:33:42, isadouglas wrote:
And believe me, if Apple did iPhone with qwerty it would kill sales. Too much complicated!
Exactly ! that is the beauty of the iphone..its simple not complicated like the windows mobile phone...I started with Ipaq PDA (with a $500.00 microdrive for 1G .lol) , SE p800 still working..then p900, p910..
went back to Pocket pc with tytn 2. Honestly I liked symbian better but SE teases me with phones than never come when they promise..and then is too late. I want simple, clean uncomplicated and that does not mean I am and Idiot....Right?
No, you're not idiot.
I was just showing a little difference between powerusers and others.
Me for instance, I can stand more complication but give me maximum features.
[ This Message was edited by: doministry on 2008-12-08 09:14 ] |
701
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On 2008-06-18 21:42:01, koto wrote:
Don't know about iphone 3G but new samsung i900 omnia looks like a perfect all in one smartphone, almost like a dream.
Yeah,it's such a dream, that a friend of mine wants to sell it after just 2 months-he's a WM user for years now and has been also Symbian user for years. I will do a Omnia review-it's almost done.
" They say i'm sick; they`re right, it's called 'Terminal Boredom!' " Follow me on twitter.com/bogramaRead my Symbian UIQ 3.0 reviews at Juvo's | |
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Posted: 2008-06-18 20:52
Sony Ericsson software/hardware support! 
