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Goodbye, my Nokia mistress. Hello again SE, my true love. |
mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
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On 2007-12-09 00:11:29, NightBlade wrote:
@mib1800:
Saying that the crap Nokia UI is better than SE's UI is just ridiculous.
Oh, and does Nokia have flash themes? I don't think so!
I already said S60 supports flash menu. You have heard of people using HandyTaskman in place of the built-in one. You can do the same for the main menu. You can plug in a flash/c++/java based menu in place of default ones. A big software producer for WM (spbplus) has even created an entire desktop (i.e. menu/active standby/fav/taskman) based entirely on flash for S60.
Maybe you want to counter these points on why I think SE UI cannot match S60:
1. Main menu is suppose to contain all your apps. In SE UI, why is it that if you want to start a Java app (multi-task) you have to go to Activity menu. Why all this confusion? In S60, you just use the Main Menu to start any apps.
2. Why is it that you need to press the Activity Menu and choose the right tab to see your current events or get to your favorites? In S60 all these are in in the standby screen and accessed easily.
3. Why is it that if you want to see running tasks, you use the activity menu, which contains other irrelevant info (like event, fav etc) and forced additional keypress to go to the right tab. In S60, you just long press the Menu key and running tasks are shown neatly.
4. Why is it that SE UI main menu contains only 12 icons? Why can't you add more app icons or re-order the position of the icons or create (icon-based) sub-menus? S60 can do all these and more. 
5. Why is it some widely used apps are stuck inside the Organiser submenu and needing 3-9 keypress to start?. In S60 I can start any of these with just 1 or 2 keypress.
6. Why is the tab size (in a dialog) so BIG blocking out the screen?
7. In contact search why is it that you cannot search by first/last name combinations? S60 has this ages ago.
8. Why is theme support so basic? Why can't I have a different icon set for each theme? S60 has this and more.
9. Why are icons in the main menu not labelled but in list sub-menu are? Yet another inconsistency. In S60 all menu icons (grid/list) are all labelled neatly.
[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2007-12-09 02:21 ] | |
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islandprd
Joined: Nov 29, 2007
Posts: 176
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Oh c'mon guys why must it always a war between Nokia and SE? Not only at Esato but other forum too like mobile review. Whenever someone brings up some weakness, either side of the avid fans will attack and defend profusedly. I notice some who critisize may not necessairly those who own the devices but rather on short time usage or on hear say, so not very fair to each other.
After using both brand, I must say each has its own advantages and disadvantages. Personally I still like the light and nimble UI on SE dumbphone plus longer talktime for my basic phoning needs, bluetoothing, texting and in rare case playing java games.
The camphones on k750 especially with combination of LED and MXE60 Xenon seems to be quite ideal to me too. I owned a N95-8GB (cannot bring myself to like k850) but frankly I miss the option using the led as a torchlight and the extra Xenon accesories. My N95 photo is also tends to be a bit blurry expecially when comes to cropping details. However the color is more brilliant than k850.
As a dumbphone, the UI in SE is pretty quick too. Compare to a similar dumbphone from Nokia 5070 I must say at certain point SE is even quicker. At nokia 5070 opening multimedia folder is not instant as SE. There is this waiting bar ala Nokia scrollingbefore the pictures appears. No such problem while opening multimedia folder in K750.
The S60 UI in N95 8GB is rather laggy to compare to the light A100 but it is not a fair comparison anyway. It is a matter of getting use to. But frankly it is quite annoying to press the button and nothing happens for a while. Normally as reflect I would press another to make sure but instead it brings to the second or third level of command already.
I also miss quick application opening at the dpad and the dedicated shortcut menu button with more shortcuts, missed callers, messaging and calendar in SE. The S60 has an option of 7 shortcuts on active standby or by offing the active standy the dpad can be programmed as SE dpad shortcut. unfortunately it is still short of dedicated shortcut button still as mentioned.
I am also not madly like the grid or bar type of menu on S60. Many times I need to scroll down cos one menu takes two spacing ond often hide on the subsequent pages. Unlike SE with one spacing and can be seen in its smallish screen quite clearly. But again it is a matter of adjustment.
I happens to own a touch screen WM wifi for an easy syncro with my pc applications, easy office tasks, easy gps, easy browsing and for some useful softwares that is not available on symbian. I often bring my k750 for longer talk time phoning plus the pda as I cannot depend on a symbian smartphone alone.
IMHO, I would prefer both brand improve as it benefits me as a consumer rather than defending and slow to improve thinking they are already much superior one to another. No flame intended |
mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
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@islandprd
I also miss quick application opening at the dpad and the dedicated shortcut menu button with more shortcuts, missed callers, messaging and calendar in SE. The S60 has an option of 7 shortcuts on active standby or by offing the active standy the dpad can be programmed as SE dpad shortcut. unfortunately it is still short of dedicated shortcut button still as mentioned.
Maybe you are not so familiar with how to use your N95 8G. . If you turn of active standby, you have 7 shortcuts (5 joypad, 2 softkeys) + long press menu key gives you Task Man + long press multimedia gives you music player + long press shuttle button start camera + dedicate gallery button + dedicate menu button + dedicated multimedia menu. I think there are more than enough shortcuts.
I am also not madly like the grid or bar type of menu on S60. Many times I need to scroll down cos one menu takes two spacing ond often hide on the subsequent pages. Unlike SE with one spacing and can be seen in its smallish screen quite clearly. But again it is a matter of adjustment.
Then make the menu exactly 12 icons (incl. sub-folders). You can use the position key shortcuts with 2 or 3 keypress to open any app. Like I say you cannot do this with SE - you need from 2 to 9 keypress. If you know more about your N95 then you will find it much more user friendly.
The S60 UI in N95 8GB is rather laggy to compare to the light A100 but it is not a fair comparison anyway.
On the very first use of N95 menu/sub menu there is some lag. But after that it is blazingly faster than SE A100.
I am not trying to say SE UI is crap but it is certainly not better than S60. Each have its pros & cons. I am just putting in a reality checks for those who tout the SE UI as the best UI that ever happened.
As you seems to answer my post which is about UI and since you say SE UI is better, then for objectivity sake can you answer the 9 questions I asked in my previous post.
[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2007-12-09 07:14 ]
[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2007-12-09 07:17 ] |
QVGA
Joined: May 23, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: Pakistan
PM, WWW
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On 2007-12-09 00:11:29, NightBlade wrote:
@mib1800:
Saying that the crap Nokia UI is better than SE's UI is just ridiculous.
Oh, and does Nokia have flash themes? I don't think so!
why dont you comeback after 10 years when you're a little mature and have something constructive to say? in the mean time, let us grownups talk, so shoo! |
islandprd
Joined: Nov 29, 2007
Posts: 176
PM |
On 2007-12-09 03:11:01, mib1800 wrote:
On 2007-12-09 00:11:29, NightBlade wrote:
@mib1800:
Saying that the crap Nokia UI is better than SE's UI is just ridiculous.
Oh, and does Nokia have flash themes? I don't think so!
I already said S60 supports flash menu. You have heard of people using HandyTaskman in place of the built-in one. You can do the same for the main menu. You can plug in a flash/c++/java based menu in place of default ones. A big software producer for WM (spbplus) has even created an entire desktop (i.e. menu/active standby/fav/taskman) based entirely on flash for S60.
Maybe you want to counter these points on why I think SE UI cannot match S60:
1. Main menu is suppose to contain all your apps. In SE UI, why is it that if you want to start a Java app (multi-task) you have to go to Activity menu. Why all this confusion? In S60, you just use the Main Menu to start any apps.
2. Why is it that you need to press the Activity Menu and choose the right tab to see your current events or get to your favorites? In S60 all these are in in the standby screen and accessed easily.
3. Why is it that if you want to see running tasks, you use the activity menu, which contains other irrelevant info (like event, fav etc) and forced additional keypress to go to the right tab. In S60, you just long press the Menu key and running tasks are shown neatly.
4. Why is it that SE UI main menu contains only 12 icons? Why can't you add more app icons or re-order the position of the icons or create (icon-based) sub-menus? S60 can do all these and more.
5. Why is it some widely used apps are stuck inside the Organiser submenu and needing 3-9 keypress to start?. In S60 I can start any of these with just 1 or 2 keypress.
6. Why is the tab size (in a dialog) so BIG blocking out the screen?
7. In contact search why is it that you cannot search by first/last name combinations? S60 has this ages ago.
8. Why is theme support so basic? Why can't I have a different icon set for each theme? S60 has this and more.
9. Why are icons in the main menu not labelled but in list sub-menu are? Yet another inconsistency. In S60 all menu icons (grid/list) are all labelled neatly.
[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2007-12-09 02:21 ]
All these a matter of getting used to. It is a matter of taste and everyone has a different taste one to another 
Thanks for more tips on N95. As an advance user can you please tell me how to set to end a call instantly when the slider closed and how to attached voice tag into the name so I can dial via voice command in bluetooth headset? I need those functions badly. Thanks.
Now, I try to answer some but dont laugh ok, cos I am juz a normal user I leave my K800 at the drawer and I only have my k750 and N95 with me now.
1) Pressing the joystick once will bring to 12 icons with messaging highlighted. If I want to go to organizer application, I press no 0 on the keypad and it will go to organizer text sub menu (very easy no need to guess the icon). It list Alarm, Application (some java there), calendar, tasks, notes, synchro. Other wise If I want to play game from main 12 icons I press keypad no 3 and it goes to entertainment sub menu. If I want to see my folders I just press joystick + keypad no 7 to file manager then choose pictures, video, sounds etc. Quite simple really.
2) If you have some events, appointment of the day, it will pop up on the standby screen (must choose to enabled). By pressing the activity key it will list the events, move the joystick aside it will brings to bookmark and shortcuts which can be customized to 7 applications you often need. Quite simple too 
3) I never need to see all running tasks as normally it is pretty straight forward. After using messages it will close so no need to see if it is still running. During a java game if interupted can see a shortcut to go back to games. It is not a smartphone so I dont expect it to do complicated tasks at once. For instant taks I use my PDA with no lag, no pressing keys, as everything can run on standby and on touchscreen.
4) 12 icons on main menu is enough. After which can go to line sub menus. Anyway the 12 icons corespond to the keypad-layout. So choosing the icon/application is as simple as pressing the corresponding keypad.
5) Those frequently used application can be assigned to shortcuts with much fewer clicks, so no issue there
6) I dont quite get this. Which tab is so big to block whole screen? 
7) This is a matter of getting used to. By long pressing the keypad it will bring to list of names starting with the choosen alphabets. In fact I prefer this than the Nokia where you need to enter more alphabets to bring into the exact contat. Sometimes I cannot remember the whole name so prefer the it to be listed alphabetically. In fact I wish nokia has this option cos I cannot remember who and who assigned to speed dial no 0 to 9. Often mistaken
 I am so happy with the fool-proof SE themes. Free themes editor included in the software. With that I can accustomed and make my own themes. I prefer this than complicated themes in N95 anytime
9) I dont need to see the screen icons to go to certain applications. I just press joystick and correspondence no on the keypad. Btw 12 icons are not an issue for long time SE user. It doesnt change places so it is so easy to remember. Definetely new user may need getting used to but so does to every other phones UI. Till now I am still confused the UI in N95 or samsung.
Btw, on my k750 there are 4 assignable shotcuts on joystick, 2 more shortcuts button and one activity key that can bring to 7 more often used application/tasks shortcuts, bookmark and events. Keypad * to lock and # to silent.
To on a bluetooth I just simply assigned bluetooth to joystick. With one movement it is on (or off) with the popup menu appears temporarily to disappear to standby mode again. N95 altough it is on active standby I need to press one click to bluetooth and another to on or off confirmation and another to exit (no need for SE). On the mid active shortcuts takes more pressing which supposedly shortcuts in the first place. Offing active means no events display which defeat the purpose pop-up menu on SE.
Anyway like I said earlier all these are all about getting used and a matter of personal taste
[ This Message was edited by: islandprd on 2007-12-09 08:54 ] |
mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
PM |
@islandprd.
Pressing the joystick once will bring to 12 icons with messaging highlighted. If I want to go to organizer application, I press no 0...
- Yes. In S60 you do the same. Just press Menu key (instead of joystick) then keypad to activate the app at the position. But because Menu is a dedicate key in S60 you can do this anytime anywhere. In SE UI, the main menu is not available unless you are at the stand-by. If you are not in stand-by you have to use Activity Menu to start another Java app which is very confusing.
press no 0 on the keypad and it will go to organizer text sub menu (very easy no need to guess the icon). It list Alarm, Application (some java there), calendar, tasks, notes, synchro.
For example, in S60 if you create an "Organiser" sub menu at "0" position (i.e. 4th row centre) and put the "clock/alarm", calendar, tasks, notes etc icons there, then you can start any app by just 3 keypress Menukey->"0"->"key". In SE you press "0" then the Organiser (list) submenu shows and you have to scroll and scroll to get to the app.
If you have some events, appointment of the day, it will pop up on the standby screen (must choose to enabled). By pressing the activity key it will list the events, move the joystick aside it will brings to bookmark and shortcuts which can be customized to 7 applications you often need. Quite simple too
This is much more troublesome than just reading your events off the stand-by screen like in S60. Same goes for accessing your favorites/bookmarks.
In SE, if you want to see your active tasks you press the activity menu then what do you see - Events. Then you have to push your joystick to go to the correct tab. In S60, just long press the menu key and the task manager is shown. So why is SE UI so unfriendly requiring more joy/key presses to get to something that is used very often?
. I dont quite get this. Which tab is so big to block whole screen?
Activity Menu.
12 icons on main menu is enough liao.. After which can go to line sub menus mah
12 is certainly not enough. And why intermix 2 types of menu?? In S60 if you make the top level as 12 submenus, then you can have 144 icons. And you can start any app with just 3 keypress. You can even arrange icons to correspond to the alphabet of your keypad (instead of fix positions).
This is a matter of getting used to. By long pressing the keypad it will bring to list of names starting with the choosen alphabets.
What if it is last name and not first name (or vice versa) that you remember?
As an advance user can you please tell me how to set to end a call instantly when the slider closed and how to attached voice tag into the name so I can dial via voice command in bluetooth headset? I need those functions badly
I answer in the other post in "Other manufacturers"
[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2007-12-09 09:12 ] |
NightBlade
Joined: Jul 29, 2007
Posts: > 500
From: Nessebar, Bulgaria
PM |
On 2007-12-09 08:06:29, QVGA wrote:
On 2007-12-09 00:11:29, NightBlade wrote:
@mib1800:
Saying that the crap Nokia UI is better than SE's UI is just ridiculous.
Oh, and does Nokia have flash themes? I don't think so!
why dont you comeback after 10 years when you're a little mature and have something constructive to say? in the mean time, let us grownups talk, so shoo!
Your ignorance is blinding. |
islandprd
Joined: Nov 29, 2007
Posts: 176
PM |
@mib1800
As I said many times all those small diff is a matter of getting used to. Those who already familiar may find it faster to navigate in either. Nothing is wrong and right, cannot force one taste to another. No point insisting one value to another
Btw, I dont want to prolong this flamed folder cos as a consumer I want both to improve so I can get a better one 
Btw, do u know how to set to end a call instantly when the slider closed (on N95) and how to attached voice tag into the name so I can dial via voice command in bluetooth headset? I need those functions badly. Please. Thanks.
[ This Message was edited by: islandprd on 2007-12-09 09:22 ] |
masseur
Joined: Jan 03, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Sydney, London
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On 2007-12-09 10:17:06, islandprd wrote:
Btw, do u know how to set to end a call instantly when the slider closed and how to attached voice tag into the name so I can dial via voice command in bluetooth headset? I need those functions badly. Please. Thanks.
mib1800 alreadsy answer this in the Nokia N95 8gb review by Dogmann thread
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islandprd
Joined: Nov 29, 2007
Posts: 176
PM |
Thanks Masseur. Sorry did not see that
Mib1800, I have replied to the dogmann thread. thanks |
mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
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On 2007-12-09 10:17:06, islandprd wrote:
@mib1800
As I said many times all those small diff is a matter of getting used to. Those who already familiar may find it faster to navigate in either. Nothing is wrong and right, cannot force one taste to another. No point insisting one value to another
[ This Message was edited by: islandprd on 2007-12-09 09:22 ]
Some are not so small different after all. Those 9 points clearly shows the inefficiency and unfriendliness of the SE UI. It is not about ones familiarity with the UI.
I have used S60 for some time now. Some here always like to say SE UI is the best blah blah. So I went and try it. I have tried to be as objective as possible and try to find rational why things are done this way in SE UI. Imagine my frustrations when simple things like opening a app takes so much effort -- e.g when I am entering a message and I want to open another app. There is no way to access the main menu. I have to hit "Back" button all the way to standby before I can open the app. On my S60 I just press menu+keypad.
Those 9 points are my summary of the deficiencies of the SE UI compared to S60. You might want to make a list like that for S60. But make sure the points are not due to users inability to use the UI.
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islandprd
Joined: Nov 29, 2007
Posts: 176
PM |
@mib1800
Big or small difference/difficulties is relative once again. Frankly I find navigating SE menu is easy. I prefer the 12 icons plus text sub menu than more icons.
Sometimes I can even navigate A100 without even seeing the screen. I can understand that you may find it deficiency. But are you objective enough comparing smart S60 vs dumb A100?
Like I said no point insting your what you value to anyone else cos they grow up different, different liking etc
To me it is quite frustating to fully like S60 too, cos I have a certain preference that doesnt exsist in S60 like customizing voice tag, slider to end call, etc. But I use it anyway. However no guarantee I will like S60 forever and not to do what the original poster say in the future. If I can find SE future product that can meet my liking, why not? Ditto if I find an improved version of S60, I may keep buying it |
pixantz
Joined: Nov 11, 2007
Posts: 15
From: Mumbai, India
PM |
@Hlcn Twst:OTOH, my past W810i left a bad taste in my mouth regarding  models. For portable music, I'm sticking with the iPod, for reasons I've written numerous times in past threads. Let's leave it at that.
id love to hear those reasons for sticking to ipod boss! I have a W810 and i wouldnt trade it for any ipod, and that too for music quality. pls enlighten me.
[ This Message was edited by: pixantz on 2007-12-09 10:28 ] |
mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
PM |
@islandprd
I am not insisting my values on others. I am just highlighting to the chap who said Nokia UI is crap and SE UI is the best.
And I am not being unfair to SE UI as I back up my statement with my valid points instead of making a motherhood statement that Nokia UI is better.
imo, an UI should be judged based on user-friendly and efficiencies factors and not based on "I am familiar with SE UI so SE UI is the best".
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islandprd
Joined: Nov 29, 2007
Posts: 176
PM |
On 2007-12-09 11:35:00, mib1800 wrote:
@islandprd
I am not insisting my values on others. I am just highlighting to the chap who said Nokia UI is crap and SE UI is the best.
And I am not being unfair to SE UI as I back up my statement with my valid points instead of making a motherhood statement that Nokia UI is better.
imo, an UI should be judged based on user-friendly and efficiencies factors and not based on "I am familiar with SE UI so SE UI is the best".
Ok. I get that
But for those who think they have a best SE UI, so be it. IMHO the friendliness depends on how one's getting used to it.
It is like some say I grow up with my mom's home cooking so I find my mom home's cooking is the best. Not entirely wrong too, right? | |
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Posted: 2007-12-09 03:11
