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so who is religous here? |
axxxr
Joined: Mar 21, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Londinium
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Its because these of the Islamaphobic news articles that we get attacks such as this asian man that was murder after the bombings.
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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Whilst the issue of immigration is very interesting, is it entirely within the remit of this thread?
Getting back on track; how many people here have converted from one religion to another and why?
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC |
PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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From: The Ummah
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On 2005-07-17 16:35:09, Sammy_boy wrote:
BEFORE I'M FLAMED I'm not saying I agree with this, I am interested to get PeterKay and other Esato Muslim's opinions on this article - are there any shreds of truth in it, or is it yet another example of the British tabloid press being islamophobic and zenophobic? Have any of you come across terrorist/Al Quieda sympathisers in your local Mosque/community?
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Sammy_boy, these questions i get asked everyday from my friends at work and at home. The truth is i do not know of any terrorist or al-quieda sympathasisers. BUT i do know a lot of people who are very unhappy with the way Muslims are killed daily in this world today who are innocent. This is hurting a lot of Muslims today.
For example, in Iraq today we see innocent humans being killed for a reason that i do not understand. Saddam has be caught and that was their target but even though they have him people are still killed daily.
Figures of those killed are truly uncountable but we know its in the hundreds of thousands.
When one muslim is killed in the world another muslim feels the pain wherever he is on the planet. This is the beauty of Islam as we are all brothers.
Terrorism has no place in Islam which i have mentioned many times in this topic and i can understand you asking me over and over but the truth is what i have stated. PLEASE don't juge my beloved religion on what the tabloids and the media deploy it as. Like i said, read the Holy Quran if you wish to understand the truth.
Hope it answers the question Sammy_boy.
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scotsboyuk
Joined: Jun 02, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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@PeterKay
As I mentioned before, what about those Muslims who are killing other Muslims? You mentioned that in Islam 'we are all brothers'; why are they killing other Muslims? axxxr mentioned something about these people not seeing the Muslims they are killing as Muslims, how accurate would you say this is?
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[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2005-07-17 23:01 ] |
amnesia
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Doha, London, Tokyo, Shanghai
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all that I have to say is that article is bullshit.
Islam is about peace, in my classes they have NEVER taught us to kill non muslims. IN FACT, during the old religious wars, Christians used to kill those who did not convert after invading a territory. However Muslims said convert and stay, or stay and pay tax.
No killing whatsoever.
Also, do you think an Imam would denounce his faith after being an Imam so easily? My point is, these are supposed to be enlightened individuals who spreak the word of God through Islam. So why would 'so many' run away?
It's not true thats all I can say.
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solidsingh
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: india
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On 2005-07-18 02:16:20, amnesia wrote:
all that I have to say is that article is bullshit.
Islam is about peace, in my classes they have NEVER taught us to kill non muslims. IN FACT, during the old religious wars, Christians used to kill those who did not convert after invading a territory. However Muslims said convert and stay, or stay and pay tax.
No killing whatsoever.
Also, do you think an Imam would denounce his faith after being an Imam so easily? My point is, these are supposed to be enlightened individuals who spreak the word of God through Islam. So why would 'so many' run away?
It's not true thats all I can say.
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no offence to any religion but @amnesia you say that christians used to kill those who did not convert, muslims also did this to many sikhs and hindus in 1699. i thought the quran was about peace and harmony?
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gelfen
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Melbourne, Australia
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i think it's fair to say that a number of mainstream religions have their fair share of skeletons in the cupboard. dragging up all the past misdemeanours of one side or the other never does any good in solving problems.
i will say however that it's probably not a fair call to label US/UK/coalition forces as Christian extremists, if only because there is a legally enforceable and rigidly maintained separation of powers between religion and state in western societies. additionally, most of the soldiers are probably more athiest than anything else and they are not acting "in the name of christianity", whereas a number of terrorist groups seem to align themselves with islam (for whatever reason) and try to pervert it for their own self-justification.
there was a one-off episode of The West Wing called Isaac and Ishmael which offered the analogy that "Islamic extremist is to Islam as KKK is to Christianity", and I think people would do well to remember that rationale. more effort needs to go into understanding how and why such groups corrupt their faith so that it becomes almost unrecognisable from the orthodox teachings.
@Peter: could you please answer these questions i asked earlier? thanks 
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On 2005-07-16 02:03:59, gelfen wrote:
1. Why are there words in brackets in your quotes? does it signify imprecise translation or something else?
2. if all the previous holy books are part of god's teaching, then wouldn't it make more sense to embrace that message in it's totality rather than just the "last chapter" as it were? i am looking at it from the point of view where the old testament is still fundamental to christian faith even though it started out as purely judaic scripture.
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also, where does the whole "reward with 40 virgins in the afterlife" bit come from, or is it just another bit made up to appease the gullible?
personally, i would have thought 40 virgins would be a lot of work 
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[ This Message was edited by: gelfen on 2005-07-18 04:47 ] |
Gigs
Joined: Jan 19, 2004
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From: The planet Snibertron!
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It's not like you're going to die again after all that work is it Gelfen 
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PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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From: The Ummah
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On 2005-07-16 02:03:59, gelfen wrote:
1. Why are there words in brackets in your quotes? does it signify imprecise translation or something else?
2. if all the previous holy books are part of god's teaching, then wouldn't it make more sense to embrace that message in it's totality rather than just the "last chapter" as it were? i am looking at it from the point of view where the old testament is still fundamental to christian faith even though it started out as purely judaic scripture.
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Hi Gelfen,
Answer to question 1: No it does not signify imprecise translation at all, it actually helps the transalation more if you read the text properly. As the Quran is revealed in arabic, this transalation is most accurate that i mention in my posts. The Word (God) i place myself as some people do not know who Allah is.
Answer to question 2: In all honesty, the Quran being the final revelation consists of all previous holy books and today the Quran is the only book in the world that is the same and has not changed. Wherever you go in the world the Holy Quran is exactly the same.
Chapter 13 Verses 1-3 State:
"A.L.M.R. These are the signs (or verses) of the Book: that which hath been revealed unto thee from thy Lord is the Truth; but most men believe not.
Allah (God) is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; is firmly established on the throne (of authority); He has subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law)! Each one runs (its course) for a term appointed. He doth regulate all affairs, explaining the signs in detail, that ye may believe with certainty in the meeting with your Lord.
And it is He who spread out the earth, and set thereon mountains standing firm and (flowing) rivers: and fruit of every kind He made in pairs, two and two: He draweth the night as a veil o'er the Day. Behold, verily in these things there are signs for those who consider!"
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absinthebri
Joined: Feb 11, 2004
Posts: 476
From: London, UK
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On 2005-07-18 05:38:07, gelfen wrote:
... i will say however that it's probably not a fair call to label US/UK/coalition forces as Christian extremists, ...
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The troops are merely pawns in someone else's war. I imagine many of them have no interest in the issues.
However, the extremist who planned and launched the war claim to be Christian and to be guided by Christian principles.
Bush and Blair like to give the impression that their quest for oil, and their pursuit of narrow national interest, has a Scripural basis.
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JK
Joined: Feb 24, 2005
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From: S. Africa - JOZI
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Bush and Blair like to give the impression that their quest for oil, and their pursuit of narrow national interest, has a Scripural basis.
I agree!! |
PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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From: The Ummah
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On 2005-07-18 00:01:07, scotsboyuk wrote:
@PeterKay
As I mentioned before, what about those Muslims who are killing other Muslims? You mentioned that in Islam 'we are all brothers'; why are they killing other Muslims? axxxr mentioned something about these people not seeing the Muslims they are killing as Muslims, how accurate would you say this is?
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Truth is that a Muslim is a person who submits himself to Almighty God and follows the teachings of the Quran and follows the actions of the Holy Prophet (saw). Now these Muslims killing Muslims aren't following the religion or one half of the two aren't following the religion. You say Muslims killing Muslims but it is just like saying Islamic terrorists. It is Untrue because the religion of Muslims does not allow killing humans.
Another reason why the Day of Judgement is a Must, these so called terrorists who kill innocent humans and these political leaders who kill hundreds of innocent lives daily - these people need to answer to the lord for their actions.
As the second part of my signature states "Verily the Day of Sorting out is a thing appointed". Almighty God is the best Judge and he will be swift in reckoning.
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solidsingh
Joined: Jan 15, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: india
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@Peterkay, i think those muslims who are carrying out terrorist bombings in the name of islam need to meet you, you would have a lot to teach them about what islam really is about
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PeterKay
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
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From: The Ummah
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@solidsingh, its not me doing the teachings, its the Holy Quran which i get my information from. These so called Muslims need to learn a lesson and need to know what the religion is truly about. A religion meaning Peace does not tolerate terrorism.
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[ This Message was edited by: PeterKay on 2005-07-18 11:44 ] |
JK
Joined: Feb 24, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: S. Africa - JOZI
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Its wierd how Islam is always being scrutinised even before 9/11...
Whats the reason? |
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Posted: 2005-07-17 18:12
